[bailey101]

About a month ago I was charged with theft under $5000 times 7 (cause I had items from 7 stores). The store the caught me called the police because I had items from other stores besides there's, and the police gave me a court date and a fingerprint date (I have already gone to get fingerprinted), and also told me that I was going to be charged with theft under $5000 dollars x 7. Which is a little deciveing to me cause the total of all of the items from all the stores was only about $200, but I guess that's the category I get put under. And I'm fine with all of this, I understand that that's the measures that they had to take.
But today I got a letter sent in the mail from the company that I got caught at say that they wanted me to pay them $325 for the damages that I did, which were the property that I took(which I don't have), the people that worked there that had to deal with me (which they employ) and for destressing the customers (?? ) and they said that I have to pay it in 28 days,and that's before my court date.

So does anyone know if this is write of them to try and make me pay $325 before my court date? And also if they can make me pay there 'fine' and then also still charge me?? It just doesn't seem write to me , but I don't know.

Also if anyone knows how much I could be fined for what I'm being charged with, or what else might happen it would be awesome for someone to tell me cause I'm kind of lost hear . Help??

also I live in canada but any info would be wonderful!!

thanks so much

[CaptainForest]

When you steal something, that is called theft.

So when the Crown charges you for a stolen item, they can either charge you

a) theft under $5,000
b) theft over $5,000

So since you have 7 different items, that is 7 counts of theft under $5,000 (since no one item is valued at over $5,000)


The store that sent you the letter has a right to send you any kind of letter.

In 28 days, if you do not pay, they will then have to SUE you. Then you will go to small claims court and they will tell the judge why you need to pay them this money.

So, the fact they are giving you 28 days is irrelevant.

I say do not pay anything yet.

Let them sue you first.

And in the mean time, focus on getting an attorney.

I have a question. Why did the police charge you on 7 counts? What I mean is, you said some items were from other stores, so how did they know they were stolen as well? Unless you told them?

Either way, your next step is to get a criminal lawyer for your court case.

As for this letter, ignore it. Then they will sue you in court, and then you should respond to that.

The reason you no longer have this store's property, is because the police have seized it to use as evidence against you in a criminal trial.

Perhaps the store could ask for some employee's time back, but disturbing their customers? Please….from my experience, seeing a cop arresting someone isn't a deterrence for me to shop.

[bailey101]

What I don't get is how can the store fine me twice for one crime? They are already bringing me to court for this matter, so can they make me pay the $325 when I will have another fine after my court date is done ?

Plus I kind of don't want to get sued, cause I can't affored a laywer cause I'm only 16 and my parents won't help me pay for any of this. And I'm having a hard enough time coming up with $325 (if I have to pay)

So if anyone has any tips to make my fine or whatever they decide I have to pay/do lighter please tell me


And also... does anyone know why they are deciding to go so hard on me and try to pin me with 7 charges? This is my first time ever bring involved with the police and I am only 16. Why are they so tough. I know other people that have been charged with theft and there cases were definitely not as dramatic as mine.

But thanks for the comment cpt. Forest , it did help a bit !

[dmatos]

You are being charged with a criminal offense (the theft). As part of the punishment, there are associated fines.

Completely separate from this, the store is suing you in a civil suit (or at least, preparing to). They feel they have been damaged financially from your actions, and are suing to recoup the losses.

Civil and criminal trials are completely separate. You may remember OJ Simpson, who was acquitted of murder in a criminal trial, but was found liable for wrongful death in a later civil trial. However, if you are convicted of the crime (theft), you stand little to no chance of successfully beating the civil case.

[CaptainForest]

Dmatos, she is 16, you expect her to remember OJ?

bailey101, here is the deal.


The Crown (government) is charging you with 7 counts. Your punishment (if found guilty) will be jail time or probation or a fine or a combination of those things.

The Store can then sue you civilly for the money they are out.

When the store sues you, you do NOT need a lawyer. It will go to small claims court and you can represent yourself. You just tell the judge what happened, and that is how it works.

[bailey101]

K well just to get this cleared up.. I'm not a he, I'm a she haha
And I did have to study oj's case for a forensics project so I know what dmatos is talking about , I'm not stupid... everyone knows all about oj's case

OK, so I know I'm going to be found guilty.. that's a no brainer. But should I really get a laywer for my courtdate?? Like what do I have to say in court, I don't really get that part.

So are you saying that I should pay the $325?? Don't I have a right to know exactly what there trying to get me to pay for in detail?? They just listed what a couple things that in my mind could not equal 325 dollars

And if I don't pay on time or if I don't pay this 325 and they sue me... what happens?? Like do I get fined more money? Or what happens if you get sued for soemthing like that?

And also... if it a for sure thing that there going to sure me??

I just don't get all of this

But thanks for the help everyone.. it's slowly comeing to me

Keep commenting !

[ScottGem]

ok, so i know im going to be found guilty.. thats a no brainer. but should i really get a laywer for my courtdate ??? like what do i have to say in court, i dont really get that part.

You just answered your own question. If you don't understand then you need an attorney to help you deal with this. Where are your parents or guardian? Aren't they helping with this?

so are you saying that i should pay the $325 ??? dont i have a right to know exactly what there trying to get me to pay for in detail??? they just listed what a couple things that in my mind could not equal 325 dollers

and if i dont pay on time or if i dont pay this 325 and they sue me ... what happens ??? like do i get fined more money?? or what happens if you get sued for soemthing like that ??

As was previous explained, the store's action was a civil action, while the Crown is pursuing a criminal action. The two are totally separate, though being found guilty in the criminal action will hurt your case in the civil action.

You do NOT have to pay the store anything yet. What the store did sounds like scare tactics. You will only have to pay them if they sue you and you lose.

You need an attorney to advise you.

[bailey101]

First of all, I can't afford an attorney
And no my parents are not helping me at all with this

Second, k so I don't pay the civil thing... and then I get sued. What happens if they sue me?? Do I have to pay even more money than before? Cause then I'd rather just pay the 325. I can't even afford that never mind a laywer, any other fines if I get sued, and what I get fined from the gov't

[ScottGem]

First question is why aren't your parents involved. Second, I don't know about Canada, but in the US, an attorney is automatically assigned if the defendant can't afford one.

If they are suing you for $325, then that's all they will get if they win the suit. And all they will win is a judgement against you for that amount. They will then have to find some assets that they can attach to get their money.

[dmatos]

If it goes to trial, they may ask for more money to cover their legal costs (hiring an attorney, employee time to attend the trial, etc). To make a _current_ analogy, it's like the RIAA offering to settle with a music downloader for $3000, but suing for many thousands, or hundreds of thousands, if a case actually goes to court. Of course, their reasons for doing so are more nefarious.. .

[CaptainForest]

First, I have corrected my post to reflect your correct sex.

Second, I didn't mean any disrespect regarding OJ, just was stating an opinion.

I do not know much about OJ's case. All I know is what he was accused of and the outcomes of the trials. I have never had any interest to know about all the details of that particular case. I don't understand all this media sensation with this Scott Peterson fellow in California. But, that is just me, I know some people are interested in it.

As for your case.

As Scott has pointed out to you, since you are having troubles following this, yes you need an attorney.

A lawyer will not charge you much, especially since it sounds like you plan to plead guilty. But get a criminal lawyer!!


As for the store and the $325 bill. I am saying NOT to pay it.

They then might sue you in court for the money, but from how you described the 325, it sounds like they are not nearly entitled to all that amount.

[excon]

Hello bailey:

You need a lawyer. Let me say that again, you need a lawyer. You need him, not to tell the court that you're not guilty, because you are. You need him to tell the judge why he shouldn't throw you away for 20 years like the prosecutor is going to ask the judge to do. So, if you misunderstood anything I said, I'll repeat it for you - you need a lawyer!

If the Crown won't provide one, go hire one, and tell him you'll make payments.

I don't know how it is in Canada, but I'll bet it's similar to the US. In many cases victims of crime don't sue. They don't have to. Here they only have to present their case to the criminal judge. There is no civil trial. The criminal conviction is evidence enough for the judge to order restitution to be paid to the victim. The courts supervise collection and payment, and if the criminal doesn't pay, they go back to jail. Civil suits don't have any where near that kind of hammer.

Sure, the store thinks it can make a buck on your misfortune. Don't let them. Tell the judge exactly what you told us. You'll only have to pay for the merchandise that you actually stole. The people who had to deal with you are paid by the store, solely for the purpose of dealing with you. Plus, if the customers were put under stress by your actions, they should sue the store.

excon

[CaptainForest]

You are 16, so I take it you are being charged under the Young Offenders Act?

Which means, for a first offence, you probably will not get any jail time, but to be on the safe side, get an attorney to work something out with the Prosecutor.

[s_cianci]

I really can't vouch for Canada. But here in the U.S. it'd be very difficult for you to get convicted for stealing any of the items that were in your possession except for those which you were actually caught stealing from the one store where you got caught. The prosecutor has to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that you did in fact steal all of those other items from all of those other stores. In the absence of any eyewitnesses that'd be pretty hard to do. The best he could realistically do is to concentrate on the item(s) from the one store where you did get caught. As for you paying damages to the store, that's a civil matter and completely separate from the criminal charge of shoplifting. It's possible that as part of your sentence the judge may order you to make restitution to the store in an amount to be determined by the court. As for the store directly pursuing action against you, however, they'd have to sue you in civil court for the $325 damages they're seeking. However, here in the U.S. a company cannot sue an individual in a civil action. All things considered, any American defense attorney would have a field day with this one.

[CaptainForest]

However, here in the U.S. a company cannot sue an individual in a civil action.

What??

Since when?

I have seen US Corporations sue individual citizens before.

[K_3]

If this were in the US, upon sentencing they would give you restitution to pay which would be what you owe all 7 places or a portion thereof. The courts would handle it. I really wouldn't do anything now, unless they are willing to drop the criminal charges if you pay them. If they are, I would have an adult help you and make sure it is in writing. Your parents are not going to help you financially or with advice? In my area they have professionals to help minors with this kind of thing. Not lawyers, but someone to help them through the steps of the court system and attend court with them. Possibly they have an agency there like that.

[junkmanner]

Before trial get treated for depression;the judge may be sympathetic.in canada a crime binge is often considered as one crime for purpose of charging.you are under 18 so will likely get a wrist slap.I don't believe a minor can be sued in canada.rest easy.

[scofield1]

Sent u a private message bailey

[ScottGem]

sent u a private msg bailey

Why? What couldn't you have said in the public forums? We prefer that advice be offered freely and publicly so lurkers can benefit and the advice be subject to peer review.

I would caution anyone about advice that is offered privately.

[scofield1]

Bailey can post it publicly, if he wants.
The reply was tailor made for his dilemma that's why it's private, gem.