[galveston]

Thank you, Val.

[Morganite]

Apparently Morganite et al feel like I, and others, are trying to "force our belief down (someone's) throat". I deny the charge categorically. I have always said that everyone has a right to be wrong.

I would like for Morganite to explain this comment, as I am not sure what he means.

"Neither the Old nor New Testaments contain one single identifiable system of theology,"

Simply put, it means that all the Christian theologies in the world claim their foundations to be from the Old and New Testaments, and the reason they can do so with relative ease is because there is no overall system of theology, belief, practice, liturgy, or ritual that can be lifted out of the Bible and laid out on the table, and have all Christians agree to it.

There are some overarching biblical themes that most will subscribe to, and yet disagree robustly with the details. I am sure you have come across a great many of them in your time. The Bible is not a catechism. If it were, it would be possible to identify exactly what believers are expected to believe and all would subscribe to the same set of articles of faith, creed, ritual, liturgy, and the thousand and one other things that divide Christianity even as it strives towards the pauline ideal of "one Lord, one faith, and one baptism."



M:)

[31pumpkin]

Morganite -

That was an OK explanation. Not that it's so important, but sometimes people are way off with their interpretation of scripture. I'm not trying to pick on Needkarma but I know if you're going to even comment on a verse, one should have some understanding or wisdom regarding the Bible. Or else simply say they don't know or would you explain it.
Consider NK's post #76 in response to #75.
I think without some understanding of the Bible, it can read frightening/& or confusing.

But I kid you not. I think I deserve an apology from:
1) Needkarma
2) Jesushelper

For being so derogatory towards me personally. Beliefs or not, you both were rude. That's as much as I can say within the scope of this forum.

[NeedKarma]

Nope, no apology. The Bible should be accessible for the common man, not just for your sect/cult.

[valinors_sorrow]

For being so derogatory towards me personally. Beliefs or not, you both were rude. That's as much as I can say within the scope of this forum.

And what of your rudeness toward others? Perhaps if you start the apologising process with me, it may actually go somewhere Pumpkin.

Our history is short and so its fairly easy to recall post #48 in this thread:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/member...tml#post120405

May I respectfully remind for the record that at the point of post #48, I was here by barely a month with only dozens of posts. Most of them were not in the religious threads as I was being slow and careful to wade in that pool, knowing how volatile they are at the other sites. It stands to reason that no one here had a very clear idea what spiritual beliefs I held then. How I managed to anger you to the point of you risking reprisals for disparaging is still not clear to me but the rudeness you expressed is clear enough, isn't it?

I have managed to turn something like a Christian cheek all this time about it, but if you are going to insist on apologies for rudeness, this can hardly be excluded from the discussion, to be fair about it.

[31pumpkin]

Val, I thought you forgot about any grudges you had against me. I wasn't referring to you in my post but I guess you really wanted to challenge me at something?

N.Karma - I was checking to see if you had some nice in you, OR something else.
As you would put it,"looks like you achieved just the opposite"

[JoeCanada76]

Pumpkin 31,

Why do I need to apologize to you? I was not rude at all towards you. I was speaking the truth. I was saying what happens to people who force their beliefs on others. For some reason you feel the need to ask us to apologize to you. I am with NK. I am not apologizing to you because I did nothing to you except for tell the truth.

Here is my post:

It is all in the approach. Somebody tries to force their religion down somebodys throat. That they are right and your wrong. That does not win anybody over. That pushes them away and keeps them farther away. You Pumpkin whether you realize that or not. You do that. So infact you are pushing people away from God by the way you approach others. You need to be open to others beliefs, opinions, and be friend all people no matter what. That will bring you closer to God and bring others closer to God. That is what I believe.

Joe

[valinors_sorrow]

Val, I thought you forgot about any grudges you had against me. I wasn't referring to you in my post but I guess you really wanted to challenge me at something?

While my initial hurt from what you did is long gone (those tend to be shortlived with me) and I don't ever turn things into grudges having learned how not to, I am capable of talking to the principle of things. The principle here struck me as odd that you would bring up the mechanism of apology when you don't seem to subscribe to it yourself. It seemed hypocritical to request one from others when you haven't filled a request to fill one yourself. And I also thought that if you didn't get one, you would then perhaps understand why, having refused to give one yourself. Its all on the same continuum as a principle.

[31pumpkin]

Pumpkin

Here is my post:

It is all in the approach. Somebody tries to force their religion down somebodys throat. That they are right and your wrong. That does not win anybody over. That pushes them away and keeps them farther away. You Pumpkin whether you realize that or not. You do that. So infact you are pushing people away from God by the way you approach others. You need to be open to others beliefs, opinions, and be friend all people no matter what. That will bring you closer to God and bring others closer to God. That is what I believe.
Joe

It's all in the approach? Well, consider what you are saying to me there. You are being critical of me without knowing (and therefore assuming) "whether or not I realize it or not". Therefore, judging me based on your own feelings. Attributing to me something you don't know if it's true or not.
Since you are reckless with your personal opinions of others, I thought I'd bring attention to your statements so you can see that you were quite intolerant yourself by projecting a negative attitude towards me when it is coming from your own personal agenda and not mine.

Val - Well, it isn't all about you. You should realize that you say some inflammatory things and expect kid glove treatment. Why do you keep remembering the bad things? Do people owe you forever? Why can't you look at the present & go forward? Are we accomplishing anything by trying to fan the flames? I told you that I accept your beliefs whether I agreed with them. It's unrealistic to think ANYONE else sees things the same way anyway. I'm going to say peace be with you one more time. :o

[JoeCanada76]

Its your agenda 31 pumpkin that isolates your behaviour. I am not making judgements just giving the facts. You may not like hearing or reading the truth, but that is what it is. I am not going to sit here going back and forth with you because quite honestly God wants me to do better things with my time.

Joe

[Curlyben]

This is a potential thread closure warning !!

Pumpkin, and everyone else to a degree. Please refer to This post, especially the quote from Dictionary.com.

[K_3]

How can one be intolerant of anothers religion when they know nothing about that religion? You may know a few facts, true knowledge needs more than a few facts. One might find out the basis to most religions are very similar.

It is difficult understanding where someone is coming from when they have no tolerance for others. Whether it is their actions or opinions. When someone speaks of their religion, faith or spirituality and they come across sounding negative, brash, narrowminded and/or angry it turns others off. It makes their religion sound like a place no one wants to go.

How many places in the Bible does it say "God is Love"? To me God is pure love, a light so bright it is blinding. He wants us to show love, understanding, kindness and compassion to others. Does that not all add up to tolerance of others whether it be their religion or their race?

[galveston]

A thought: Religious intolerance is of little consequense (to others) as long as it is at the personal level. It becomes deadly when it becomes official policy. There are places in the would today where evangelism, particularly the Christian variety, is a capital offense. In Australia and Canada, a preacher can be punished for preaching against certain sins. In the U.S.A. a Navy chaplain is facing or has already faced court-martial for conducting a funeral service for a Christian and reading a scripture pointing out that Jesus is the only way to eternal life, and then closing a prayer in the name "Jesus". He faces the loss of 2 years salary and discharge. It is just this kind of intolerance that so many of the first immigrants to this country were fleeing. It does seem that official religious intolerance (in the U.S.A.) is usually directed against Christians. Hope I am still on the subject!

[Morganite]

So if God saved you from these perils please be reminded that He put you there also.

How do you figure that out? Do you see any oddity in determining what a God in whom you do not believe will or will not do?


M:)

A thought: Religious intolerance is of little consequense (to others) as long as it is at the personal level. It becomes deadly when it becomes official policy.

What a remarkable thing to say! Religious intolerance at the personal level is what causes most of the hostile action against the people of the religion towards which individuals are intolerant. A single idiot with an intolerance issue can do untold harm to those he esteeems to be his enemies. Still remarkable is the fact that of intolerance is institutionalised, it still relies on individuals moved by the Satanic spirit of intolerance to kill the 'enemy.' Intolerance has no place in any religion unless it is a totally evil religion. Religious practitioners in all countries and in all positions will not get into trouble of they observe the laws of the country in which they reside.

As to your US Navy chaplin being disciplined for conducting a Christian burial service, I would appreciate the provision of a web-reference to the case that I can see its details for myself.

Historically, Christians have been and still are among the least tolerant and most intolerant of all religions, as history, profane and ecclesiastical attests. Intolerance is neither desired nor desirable simply because some are intolerant to your faith. The intolerance of another does not grant a licence to others to be intolerant. Any argument that gives intolerance a place in religion is evil and ill-founded, and no disciple of Jesus Christ would even think of claiming it. The teaching of Jesus that he is the sole way to salvation is not intolerant. It is, for Christians, a statement of fact. Acceptance of that does not grant licence to damn all other religions and non-Christians to Hell. Not according to the Bible.

Jesus was surrounded by paganism during his life, but where will you find his condemnation of paganism? Nowhere! He knew about it, but his sole intent was to establish his gospel, settle his believers, and have others come to know him through the example of the blameless lives of Christians. Christian intolerance towards other faiths is un-Christlike (it could be said to be anti-Christ) because it steps outside of his own life, teaching, and example. Christians need to follow Jesus not some ranting preacher who is strong on hate but weak on love. God does not need these self-appointed wild men to accomplish his work. Condider the Bible.




M:)RGANITE




"Love one another .... "

[galveston]

The comment I made about personal intolerance simply meant that I am not going to get bent out of shape because of some individual's intolerance of my religious beliefs.
You can find several articles about chaplains at "Agape Press" and search "chaplain". I think the particular article that I mentioned may have been archived or deleted, but there are several others.

[Morganite]

Pumpkin, you have every right to be here. But to say you are not intolerant of other religions, but you say you would never choose an unbeliever for a friend. Is that a contradiction in terms? By being their friend you may bring them to your beliefs without pushing it on them. I have had people ask me how I have achieved such peace in my life. I tell them and they have found God because they want an inner peace.
If you choose to be intolerant of other religions, fine, that is your right. Just be honest and say you are. God bless you.

Having friends not of one's own faith or sect could improve a person's education, outlook, godliness, and tolerance. Unless, of course, one is perfect!



M:)

[31pumpkin]

Well I'm close to finding out if I have a new friend or neh. They just completed a new house on the lot next to me.(boy that was noisy!) Anyway, I have a Catholic friend like 3 lots down so this will be interesting. Did I mention I hope she's a Christian? Lol

[talaniman]

Well I'm close to finding out if I have a new friend or neh. They just completed a new house on the lot next to me.(boy that was noisy!) Anyway, I have a Catholic friend like 3 lots down so this will be interesting. Did I mention I hope she's a Christian? lol

You better hope she is TOLERANT

[talaniman]

Why are you so thin-skinned, and do you really think you can insult me and call me names without me replying in kind? What I posted in reply was a very witty statement of FACT, sorry you took it badly but my comment was fairly mild compared to the things you throw at me. So get over it already.

[NeedKarma]

How do you figure that out? Do you see any oddity in determining what a God in whom you do not believe will or will not do?

I'd like to offer you an answer but I honestly cannot figure out what your sentence means.