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arcura · Jan 25, 2009, 10:41 PM

Here we see that God will forgive almost any sin, but one against the Holy Spirit.
Note that saying Jesus has an evil spirit is such a sin.
Today's Gospel (Mk 3:22-30): The teachers of the Law who had come from Jerusalem said, «He is possessed by Beelzebul: the chief of the demons helps him to drive out demons». Jesus called them to him and began teaching them by means of stories or parables, «How can Satan drive out Satan? If a nation is divided by civil war, that nation cannot stand. If a family divides itself into groups, that family will not survive. In the same way, if Satan has risen against himself and is divided, he will not stand; he is finished. No one can break into the house of the Strong one in order to plunder his goods, unless he first ties up the Strong one. Then indeed, he can plunder his house. Truly, I say to you, every sin will be forgiven humankind, even insults to God, however numerous. But whoever slanders the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven: he carries the guilt of his sin forever».This was their sin when they said, «He has an evil spirit in him».
:confused:Are there other situations that are sins against the Holy Spirit?:confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred
Fred

Athos · Jan 25, 2009, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Here we see that God will forgive almost any sin, but one against the Holy Spirit.
Note that saying Jesus has an evil spirit is such a sin.
Today's Gospel (Mk 3:22-30): The teachers of the Law who had come from Jerusalem said, «He is possessed by Beelzebul: the chief of the demons helps him to drive out demons». Jesus called them to him and began teaching them by means of stories or parables, «How can Satan drive out Satan? If a nation is divided by civil war, that nation cannot stand. If a family divides itself into groups, that family will not survive. In the same way, if Satan has risen against himself and is divided, he will not stand; he is finished. No one can break into the house of the Strong one in order to plunder his goods, unless he first ties up the Strong one. Then indeed, he can plunder his house. Truly, I say to you, every sin will be forgiven humankind, even insults to God, however numerous. But whoever slanders the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven: he carries the guilt of his sin forever».This was their sin when they said, «He has an evil spirit in him».
:confused:Are there other situations that are sins against the Holy Spirit?:confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred
Fred

To attribute the things of God to the devil seems to be the point of this passage from Mark. Extending the metaphor, good will never proceed from evil. In modern terms, the ends can never justify the means. The moral lesson is excellent.

arcura · Jan 26, 2009, 12:02 AM

Athos
Yes it is an excellent moral lesson.
But some folks extend that to other situations such as suicide.
The reason given to that is that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit so to kill the body is sin against the Holy Spirit.
What follows from that is if that is the case then murder is a sin against the Holy Spirit.
The next thing to consider then is war.
The soldiers who kill the enemy who has the Holy Spirit within those soldiers are committing an unforgivable sin under that typr of reasoning.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

nike 1 · Jan 26, 2009, 12:08 AM

arcura, How is a soldier to know if that enemy has the holy spirit within him?
What exactly is the Holy Spirit?
Are all suicides unforgivable?

450donn · Jan 26, 2009, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by nike 1

arcura, How is a soldier to know if that enemy has the holy spirit within him?Do not believe that it really matters if an enemy combatant is religious or not. The passage I believe is referring to acts against or slandering (swearing) using the HS name
What exactly is the Holy Spirit?It is the guiding spirit in our lives. It is the person who is standing beside us every minute of every day helping and guiding us in our walk with the Lord
Are all suicides unforgivable?I believe that is true. If murder is a sin, then suicide by it's very nature is self murder, so if you were to commit self inflicted murder, (Suicide), and unless you are alive you cannot ask for forgiveness for your sin, therefore you can not be forgiven because you are already dead

Don

sndbay · Jan 26, 2009, 09:09 AM

My thoughts are that there is no degree in sin that we can judge ourselves. Any more then there is a degree understood to us in looking upon another's wife which caused adultery..or any admiration shown to man which is idolatry in thinking man is anything other then a servant of God ..

Murder is a individual's premediated motive to gain their own selfish goal. And to kill can be said in self defence.. Judgement is still in the hands of God.

We have no way of knowing what is within another individual's heart. We can sometimes discern the mind of another because of their actions. But the heart still remains in the hands of God's judgement.

I believe in the Holy Spirit within God's children. God decided from ordained beginning, who He loves and who He hates. Who will receive mercy and who will not. Who will receive revealed knowledge is in the hands of God.. And the importance of prayer can move a mountian when asked in Christ name.

As the OT shows they overcame.. We can believe that the Holy Spirit was in some of them from the beginning..And one is not to deny The Holy Spirit!!!

The heart should trust in the Holy Spirit, who makes intercession because the intercessions are made according to God's Will..(Romans 8:26 ect..)

Simply I would say: don't judge the hearts of anyone, because it is where the Holy Spirit resides within us if we are children of God. Trust in the Holy Spirit and Our Father's Will... Do as Christ did.

arcura · Jan 26, 2009, 11:31 AM

nike 1,
I merely gave that as an example of what some folks think.
I do not think that.
The Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity of God. He is the inspirer and guide who dwells in us if we are baptized properly.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Jan 27, 2009, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

The Holy Spirit is the third person of the trinity of God. He is the inspirer and guide who dwells in us if we are baptized properly.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, I would ask then, do you believe The Holy Spirit is present in whom God ordains as His willing choice from the beginning within the womb of woman?

And what then do you acknowledge as proper baptism? That which was commanded by Jesus as a traditionalized baptism witnessed and done by the disciples written in scripture teaching, and withness in John's doing?

Or that which we see that has changed the traditional teaching to the following of man and their way?

arcura · Jan 27, 2009, 09:32 PM

sndbay,
If God would preordain a special person in the womb for a special holy purpose I THINK that is is probable that The Holy Spirit would be present in that particular person then.
The instruction on what is a proper baptism was give by Jesus as recorded in the bible.
As such most main line churches that I am aware of do it properly like this, "I baptize thee (name of person) in the name of The Father, and of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit, amen."
The Catholic Church has been doing it that way from the very beginning.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Maggie 3 · Jan 27, 2009, 11:37 PM

If a person does not accept Jesus, he can not have forgiveness.
If man rejects the HollySpirt and turns away from Jesus Christ, he can receive
No forgiveness.

Maggie 3

arcura · Jan 28, 2009, 12:24 AM

Maggie 3,
That seems to be true according to the bible.
But let us think for a moment about a person who does not know Jesus but is a very forgiving person.
Jesus says that a person who forgives will be forgiven.
I personally think that such a person will be recognized by Jesus come judgment time.
How Jesus will judge him I not know, but I think that merciful Jesus will be kind to him.
At least I surely hope so.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Jan 28, 2009, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
If God would preordain a special person in the womb for a special holy purpose I THINK that is is probable that The Holy Spirit would be present in that particular person then.

Every soul is ordain to be under the power of God, because there is no other power... Anyone resisting this will see damnation..

Romans 13:1-2 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

We are created by God... And the flesh body, mindfully holds nothing more then a mystery of the spiritual realm from where they came. Except to know that God ordained each to be under His rule and power.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This scripture shows that the soul was known to God before life in the flesh, and each are ordained according to what God knows of us before we are formed in the womb.

Jer 1:4-5 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Scripture is clear that every man is to walk as God has ordained... and should abide in that ordained walk.

Originally Posted by arcura

The instruction on what is a proper baptism was give by Jesus as recorded in the bible.
As such most main line churches that I am aware of do it properly like this, "I baptize thee (name of person) in the name of The Father, and of The Son, and of The Holy Spirit, amen."
The Catholic Church has been doing it that way from the very beginning.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The church today does In His name, yet not as witness in scripture by Christ's own baptism, nor by any traditional form that was commanded..

Every man and all churches are to walk as Christ walked , and as ordained by God.

1 Cor 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

1 Cor 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

All men are servants of God!

1 Cor 7: 21-22 Art thou called [being] a servant? Care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use [it] rather. For he that is called in the Lord, [being] a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, [being] free, is Christ's servant.

Brought, and ordained as servants of God... Not servants of men..

1 Cor 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

We are to follow traditional baptisms which were witness in scripture, traditional feasts that were witness, ect...

Not the traditions of man that try to change what is written.

arcura · Jan 28, 2009, 06:45 PM

sndbay,
Thanks for your explanation.
As I said The Church baptizes as Jesus instructred.
Fred

sndbay · Jan 29, 2009, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

Maggie 3,

I personally think that such a person will be recognized by Jesus come judgment time.
How Jesus will judge him I not not know, but I think that merciful Jesus will be kind to him.
At least I surely hope so.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Every soul is ordain to be under the power of God, because there is no other power... Anyone resisting this will see damnation..

We are created by God... And the flesh body, mindfully holds nothing more then a mystery of the spiritual realm from where they came. Except to know that God ordained each to be under His rule and power.

We can be assured that the soul was known to God before life in the flesh, and each are ordained according to what God knows of us before we are formed in the womb.

Posting # 12 will have the scripture that confirm this in the Word of God..

sndbay · Jan 29, 2009, 06:02 AM

To all who read: The simiplicity of Christ is to hear His voice.. For Christ is the way.. Scripture says that we should daily encourage those who do not believe the simplicity of Christ. Doing this daily because we have today available for that encouragement . We do not know what tomorrow brings... Many can be bull headed by the deceitfulness of sin... Truth is that we are made partakers of Christ, and "IF" we remain stedfast standing on the Rock that is Christ, we are confident and not movable. "Hear His Voice"

Hebrews 3:12-15 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

The Holy Spirit said "hear my voice" today... Do not be like those of the OT that harden their heart and would not see the promise land. Those who would not hear, and went after what they wanted to see, and turning to idolatry. 40 years they would wait as the result of their sinful actions..

The simplicity of Christ is faith without sight, Christ being the only way, and hearing His voice. Christ is the Rest... Remain stedfast in Christ and stand on the Rock of Christ...

Hebrew 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in [their] heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Originally Posted by arcura

Here we see that God will forgive almost any sin, but one against the Holy Spirit.

We can be stedfast and sure that in Christ we enter within the veil without sin . When be hear the Holy Spirit and the simplicity of Christ.

Hebrews 6:19 Which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

arcura · Jan 29, 2009, 08:33 AM

sndbay
Thanks for your opinion on that.
Fred

sndbay · Jan 29, 2009, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by sndbay

Hebrew 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in [their] heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

If we do not hear the Holy Spirit in the noted scripture of Hebrews, and we going against what was said, is this an unforgivable sin?

So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

Or would it be an unrighteous act of sin that is forgivable by repenting?

arcura · Jan 29, 2009, 06:12 PM

sndbay ,
No I do not think so.
I think the unforgivable sin is to slander the Holy Spirit as scripture says, "But whoever slanders the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven: he carries the guilt of his sin forever».This was their sin when they said, «He has an evil spirit in him (that is the people who were speaking of an evil spirit in Jesus).
The spirit that was in Jesus was the Holy Spirit.
So don't ever say or allude that the Holy Spirit is evil!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

sndbay · Jan 30, 2009, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay ,
No I do not think so.
I think the unforgivable sin is to slander the Holy Spirit as scripture says, "But whoever slanders the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven: he carries the guilt of his sin forever».This was their sin when they said, «He has an evil spirit in him (that is the people who were speaking of an evil spirit in Jesus).
The spirit that was in Jesus was the Holy Spirit.
So don't ever say or allude that the Holy Spirit is evil!!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

You feel to deny the Holy Spirit, is to deny He is Holy?

Such as in scripture 1 Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Okay ...But there is more, because I feel someone can deny the Holy Spirit by denying His existance in The Word, in The World, In the Heart. The Holy Spirit was sent in presence of comfort, which is to guide you; to make intercession for you; and earns us inheritance until redemption in His Glory. (by faith not sight)

Such as in scripture Eph 1:13-14In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.(Romans 8:19-- 2 Cr 1:22-- 2 Cr 5:5)

Without the seal in our foreheads we have no hope.

(We are servant unto God, we are God's children when we hold the seal within the forehead.)

And I believe we must enter into His Rest as Hebrew 4:5 because it shows we believe in His Glory, His Power, and His Righteousness. Otherwise as The Holy Spirit said So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest. (REST= the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which he has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers after the toils and trials of life on earth are ended)

Hold the Seal of God within the forehead, and don't deny or doubt The Holy Spirit presence within us.

Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

arcura · Jan 30, 2009, 04:10 PM

sndbay,
I don't doubt the Holy Spirit within me.
He's been there since I was baptized.
But I still believe what Jesus said about slandering the Holy Spirit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred