[HistorianChick]

Hi all,

No, I'm not taking the plunge, don't worry! :)

I was approached by a co-worker this morning about the possibility of me shooting his sister's wedding. I took his family's Christmas pictures this year and everyone loved them. I'm also shooting pics for my job.

I guess you'd call me a blossoming photographer, but still definitely on the amateur level.

My question is this: If I accept this proposition, the bride is willing to fly me to DC for the wedding, provide lodging, meals, etc before and after the ceremony. What do I charge for the shoot? I guess the cheapest she has found was $1700...

I have NO clue!

Help would be appreciated! Thanks!

[Curlyben]

Well it really depends.
Are you thinking "mates rates" or something more professional ?

You could always look at a local average and take off the flights etc for your actual cash in hand fee.

[HistorianChick]

I don't know her, so I really don't really feel like I need to go for Mate Rate.

Good idea about flights off the top...

It's very flattering, yet daunting at the same time!

[Synnen]

I paid $1000 for my professional photographer, and was extremely disappointed in what I got.

Make sure you calculate all of YOUR expenses Film-if it's not digital
Prints-if you're providing them
Your time- you are worth money!
Um... not sure what else you may be out of pocket for.

I would charge them at least $500 on top of the expenses they're paying for, but would aim to closer to $800-$1000 for your time that day.

Make SURE that you get, in writing, the specific shots that they want. You don't want to end up with resentments (or worse!) later if they are not satisfied with whatever you provide.

Make sure, as well, that you get times set in stone for formal pictures--whether before or after the ceremony--that do not interfere with other wedding day plans. Basically, make sure the bride has an idea of how much TIME it will take for those shots. I know that I grossly underestimated the amount of time that it would take for pictures, and had to cut short both the pictures and another activity--and all because the photographer would not tell me approximately how long it would take.

[HistorianChick]

Ooo... great points, thanks Synn!

I will definitely do that signed shot list... and the time - great thinking. With my Christmas photos, I always judged more time than necessary - and it never did me wrong! Customers are always happy when they have more time on their hands, rather than being late for thing!

Man, this is huge... I'm not sure I'm good enough!

Thanks for the advice! :D

[Synnen]

You're probably great at it--don't underestimate yourself.

The best pictures I have from our wedding were from an amateur photographer friend that took it upon himself to get different shots than the professional and gave those to us as a wedding gift.

[HistorianChick]

That's really encouraging, thank you. :)

[jcdill]

My question is this: If I accept this proposition, the bride is willing to fly me to DC for the wedding, provide lodging, meals, etc before and after the ceremony. What do I charge for the shoot? I guess the cheapest she has found was $1700....

It is much harder to be an official wedding photographer than you can imagine. First, you need backup equipment. If something breaks during the ceremony, what will you do? You need at the very least a backup camera and lens. This could be a camera and lens that will otherwise be used by a friend/guest during the reception, but you should have it *with* you during the ceremony.

One of the biggest photographic challenges is that weddings are usually indoors, and have limited light. You need a "fast lens" and a camera that performs well at a high ISO (1600 or higher) to get good wedding photos in this situation. You also need a fairly long lens as you have to stand out of the way of the guests and the wedding party. I shoot with a Canon 1D Mark II with an f/2.8 70-200 IS lens for 80% of my wedding work. Then you need to know how to set your camera settings to get good photos in the low light, and how to stabilize the camera so you don't have camera blur. If you already know all of this, then you are set. If you don't already know all of this you should learn it now, well in advance of the wedding. You may find you need to buy or rent a lens. If you rent the lens, rent it for several weeks so you have plenty of time to practice with it before the wedding.

Then, one of the "hidden tasks" a wedding photographer has is to cull/sort the images after the wedding. You NEVER show the bride all the photos. Only show her the good ones! I find I spend more time post-processing my wedding shots than I spent actually shooting the wedding and reception. You need to account for this time when you consider what to charge.

Finally, you need to decide what the deliverable is. Will you give the bride a DVD with all the images and leave her to print her prints and albums? Will you give her an online gallery to view and select prints? If so, what are you going to charge for prints? Are you going to do individual touch-ups on her prints, if so will you charge an additional fee for the editing? Do you want to offer her a package of X number of prints, X number of retouched images, an album, etc. Figure out what you want to offer and how much time it will take to produce. The actual cost of the deliverables (the cost to print, the cost to make the album) is trivial compared with the time you put into making these things.

This is why a wedding photographer charges so much. It's all the "hidden time" that the photographer needs to be paid for, in addition to the time to shoot the wedding and the cost of the equipment necessary to do a good job.

When you come to an agreement, get it In Writing. Your contract needs to include start-end times, the time for the portraits, a shot-list for the portraits, and a list of the important events and shots you need to take during the reception.

Get a 50% deposit up front, and they need to have a check for the remainder ready at the beginning of the wedding so you can deal with the business stuff and get it out of the way before they start their big day. Be business-like - this is a job, not a "favor for a friend".

Finally, you don't get to visit and enjoy the wedding as a guest when you are the photographer. It's a LOT of work, a lot of responsibility. If you are lucky you will get a few minutes to sit and have a quick bite while everyone else is enjoying dinner. More than once I've not had time to eat dinner, or have a bite of cake! Instead, I'm busy going from table to table getting "table shots" of everyone at each table so that I'm sure I have a shot of everyone who attended the wedding.

[jcdill]

Make sure, as well, that you get times set in stone for formal pictures--whether before or after the ceremony--that do not interfere with other wedding day plans. Basically, make sure the bride has an idea of how much TIME it will take for those shots. I know that I grossly underestimated the amount of time that it would take for pictures, and had to cut short both the pictures and another activity--and all because the photographer would not tell me approximately how long it would take.

I always allocate at least 1 hour for the wedding portraits. For this reason, I do my best to get the bride to schedule this time before the ceremony, rather than having a huge break after the ceremony before they can join the reception. If the ceremony is at 3 pm, I like do to the portraits between 1-2 pm. This gives us extra time if it runs over, otherwise they have 1 hour to rest from all the "preparations" before the ceremony starts. Guests usually don't start showing up until 30 minutes before the ceremony.

[Synnen]

I always allocate at least 1 hour for the wedding portraits. For this reason, I do my best to get the bride to schedule this time before the ceremony, rather than having a huge break after the ceremony before they can join the reception. If the ceremony is at 3 pm, I like do to the portraits between 1-2 pm. This gives us extra time if it runs over, otherwise they have 1 hour to rest from all the "preparations" before the ceremony starts. Guests usually don't start showing up until 30 minutes before the ceremony.

The only time this doesn't work is if the bride (like myself) has superstitions about the groom seeing her in the dress before the wedding.

I absolutely refused to do shots BEFORE the wedding, since that ruined the point of keeping the dress a secret--and I didn't want the bad luck!

I just would have scheduled the wedding earlier, or the reception later (and hired someone for entertainment for the guests in the "between" time) had I known how long it would take.

[jcdill]

The only time this doesn't work is if the bride (like myself) has superstitions about the groom seeing her in the dress before the wedding.

I absolutely refused to do shots BEFORE the wedding, since that ruined the point of keeping the dress a secret--and i didn't want the bad luck!

I just would have scheduled the wedding earlier, or the reception later (and hired someone for entertainment for the guests in teh "between" time) had I known how long it would take.

FWIW, 100% of my brides have agreed to before-ceremony portraits, and all are still happily married. So I don't think there's any bad luck here. :-)

How long did your after-ceremony portraits take?

[Synnen]

About an hour and a half--which was way too long for how few different shots we got.

This was also 8 years ago, and I was unable to find a photographer that would work in digital media--I felt I was paying more money for fewer shots, really.

I know that a lot of my problems with my photographer stemmed from a lack of good communication on BOTH sides--I just was very disappointed in how few pictures there were that I really liked, and because the formal church shots took so much longer than I thought they would, we were unable to go to the nearby park and get any of the fun shots I wanted to have.

[HistorianChick]

I shoot with a Nikon D50 28/150mm.

I have been studying up on and experiencing with my Nikon for a while and feel that I do know light settings, speeds, and environmental issues for my specific camera.

The fact is, while my photos have been used for numerous Christmas picture sittings, sports photography for the college I work for, newspaper coverage, and personal albums, I'm rather hesitant to do something so memorable.

I'm a professional cake baker (Wilton Method Instructor) and have made countless wedding cakes. If there are two things that the bride wants perfect above all else it is the cake and the pictures.

I haven't committed to doing it for this woman (who I have never met, so it wouldn't be a problem not "having fun" at the ceremony), I am trying to weight the options before the "final answer." All of this would be up front with the bride, anyway. I would tell her these same things.

Thanks guys for all of your help!

[jcdill]

I shoot with a Nikon D50 28/150mm.

What is the f-stop for this lens, and how much experience do you have shooting events indoors in low light (typical wedding lighting)? I don't know of any 28-150 zoom that has fast glass, and if you don't have fast glass, you NEED fast glass to do this job. You will either need to buy a better lens, or rent one. See: Where To Rent A Lens Online for info on renting good lenses. Since you have a Nikon you have fewer choices on where to rent lenses - check all the sites and find the ones that have a good selection of Nikon/Nikkor lenses. Keep this in mind as you try to decide what to charge.

If the bride is hoping to hire you for less than her "lowest quote", including in her cost your plane fare and hotel etc. you need to resign yourself to shooting this primarily for experience because by the time you buy/rent a better lens, spend the time to travel, the time to shoot, the time to post-process, etc. you will be working for a very small per-hour rate if your price is lower than her lowest quote.

Also keep in mind that your time is always much longer than the time the bride thinks she is paying you for. If the wedding is at 3 and the reception is from 4-8, the bride thinks "oh, that's 5 hours". Except that I'll schedule the portraits from 1-2. And I always get there at least 30 minutes early. And I have time to drive to-from the wedding. And I have time to clean my sensor and lenses, make sure all my batteries are fully charged and I have enough memory cards and they are all empty and formatted and ready to go, I have fresh batteries for the flash (for the reception and portraits) pack my gear, etc. before I get in the car. That "5 hour wedding" job runs from 11 am to 9 pm - a 10 hour day.

But wait, there's more! I have to download and backup all the photos as soon as I get home. Then I have to go through them and start marking the rejects and the best shots. (If you don't have a good Digital Asset Management system (DAM) do this NOW. I use and recommend Lightroom for this.)

I typically spend 2 full 8-hour days keywording, rating, sorting, color adjusting and cropping to prepare the photos to show the best ones to the bride as a proof gallery online. Then I need to upload them. (Don't forget hosting fees, I pay an annual fee to a site that does the gallery backend so I just have to upload proofs and they watermark, create thumbnails, etc.)

At this point I'm about 30 hours into this "5 hour wedding" job. The bride thinks I'm paid a fortune if she pays $1500 (it's just 5 hours, that's $300/hour!), but since this takes 30 hours I earn $50/hour, except that I'm not done yet. We still don't have a deliverable. Unless I markup all my prices for prints and albums, I'm going to lose money on every minute I spend turning files into prints and albums. And in your case you need to add the time you spend traveling to/from her wedding. Travel time is the time you leave your house for the airport until you arrive at your hotel, plus the time going from the hotel to the wedding etc. Plus there's your air fare, car rental, hotel and food costs.

I really don't recommend this as your first wedding job. It's hard enough to do a local wedding!

[Alty]

Chicky, I've seen your photos, you're great. Obviously the bride and groom think so too, or they wouldn't have asked you.

I say go for it. :)