[aqua@home]

My husband and I were just talking about death. He and I have completely different points of view on the matter. He is very confident in our beliefs of the afterlife and actually thinks it should be a day to celebrate, not mourn. I on the other, am a little more sensitive to the thought of it.

I was just wondering your opinions and views on the matter. Do you think there is anything to worry about? How do you feel about leaving others here or them leaving you here? Is this a time to be happy or sad? Why are we sad, isn't that selfish?

Just a few questions to work with. Please feel free to add or comment on whatever you want.

Thanks for anything you are willing to share.;)

[magprob]

Well, just look at all of the people that have done it. Seems like a pretty popular thing to do. If not popular then completely natural at least. I wonder if there are more dead people or more "alive?" I really don't think it should be feared simply because GOD is handling the whole thing.
I really do not fear death because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what is next is huge and at 50, I spent the first half of my life making the second half sore and tired. My knees, teeth, elbows, feet and a few other places take turns bothering me. When we wear out, I think passing on becomes more of blessing than a curse.

[Cassie]

I am certainly not afraid of passing in. I believe in God and know he has a plan and we will take what we learned here and go on to a better place. We will be missed by our loved ones, that is a part of life. But we will live on in their hearts and memories. I think when we leave, as Magpro says, we are going to be ready. I for one do not want my loved ones to have to take care of me and have those memories in the end.

No, I do not feel we need to worry. God will take care of everything after death as he has taken care of us now.

[Krs]

Although I'm catholic, I have my doubts so I consider myself agnostic.

In some way, I'm scared in others I'm not!

Im not scared because, its our path, the moment we are born our clock is ticking, it's a part of life. I want to so hard to believe that there is a heaven. And if there is, I have lots of loved ones up there, so I won't be scared, I know we will meet again. (thats my heart talking)

On the other hand, (its my mind talking) and it tells me don't be silly, there is absolutley nothing. We die, and that's it, we're gone!

So I could say I'm so confused and uncertain, I try not to think about the matter so much.

But I know it's a very comforting thought to know that there is a heaven where we all go once we pass away and God will open his door for us!

I just wish I knew 100% that it was true :(

[Cassie]

Have you ever meditated and thought about God so much that you felt pure love all around you? Experience this and you know there is God. When you feel God you know there is more and you believe his promises.

[Krs]

To be honest know I haven't! Wouldn't really know where to start!
Never felt anything like that in my life. But I know people who have and speak like you do!

[valinors_sorrow]

There is clearly a separation that most people feel as a profound loss, and so this needs to be acknowledge in the process. Someone is leaving and the rest are left behind, never mind for a moment that we all catch up to each other later (with all due respects to various religions, I am not at all sure about that part). While I am now certain we continue, I am frankly not sure in what manner. I hope to meet my maker since I have been forming a list of questions I would respectfully like to ask - things I don't understand in this here and now... babies being ill and stuff like that? But as Magpie points out death is as ordinary as being born, as living and breathing in many ways. In some cultures dying is very open and public almost, while here in the US is seems intensely private. I personally consider it the ultimate E-ticket ride LOL and hope to know that I am dying when I do -- none of that in your sleep stuff for me! Like Cassie, I sense we get to be enveloped in such unimaginably immense love that suddenly we understand where we didn't before. I think, having been close to death once, I got a glimpse of that very thing.

For the one dying, to be cared for and honored while this chapter of their being ends is very important. I am also with Magpie on this one-- by the time many of us go, we are ready to on many levels and that needs to be better understood in the US culture. I have witnessed several people and a few animals die. Some died well, some not. I can say that they each were a lesson in the wonder of life. How one lives their life influences how well one dies to some degree it seems, too.

The one that impacted me the most was a wonderfully wacky women and my AA sponsor for over a decade who oddly enough was teaching me how to LIVE while I was teaching her how to DIE in her hasty final days. We got a big laugh out of that! We were as close as two humans can ever be, I bet. I miss her and she died knowing I would, so there is that to comfort me. She broke the mold, as they say. I can always tell when I am especially missing her --- I'll suddenly see a flash of some woman down a store aisle who, from the back, looks just like her and my heart will leap for a split second until it realises. I like to think the wistful look that ends up on my face rather resembles the ones I saw her often make.

Elisabeth Kubler-Ross (I believe her name is) wrote several really insightful books with the most popular one being called On Death and Dying that you might look into for more information.

This is one of my favourite topics so please forgive me if I have been longwinded. I hope this perspective offers you more food for thought and I must say, another great thread started by you, Aqua. Thanks!

[Cassie]

I may add, I had a loved one that died and we were so very close. She was across the country when she passed away. I was sitting and thoughts of her came across my mind and also I saw a veil flash by, it was as though I saw something but didn't. It was a transparent white nothing but something that passed in a flash. A few hours later her son called to say she had passed away and it was at the time I felt her presence. That gave me even more faith.

[Krs]

Val why wouldn't you think we would all catch up later?

[valinors_sorrow]

Val why wouldnt you think we would all catch up later?

I am not convinced that we stay in a recognizable enough form to catch up like that. I somewhat suspect (given what I have "seen" firsthand in my life so far) that this life now is something like a cocoon and that death makes for such a transformation that the "butterfly" on the other side, for lack of a better analogy, simply wouldn't have that kind of need? I know that sounds sort of sad but I have had many vivid impressions that repeatedly suggest that we don't fully understand it now and yet we do later -- rather like a child who wants only candy for dinner thinks when she can't have it, that is something to be sad about. Did that make any sense or answer it for you Krs? Some of this is not real firm in my mind too; I am still learning, exploring... :o

[aqua@home]

Personally, I think we will catch up with one another and be together again.

Have you ever met someone, and felt a tie to them, like you knew them before, or you were connected somehow? It has happened to me and I think it is a comforting feeling. It feels right. I think we were together before we were born and we will be together again after we die.

My problem with death is with what is left here on earth. :( I think we can only try to prepare for so much. We have life insurance to take care of the monetary things for if my husband or I die. Enough that we could stay at home with the 5 kids and not worry for even one second about money. But what about the effects of losing a parent. I know my husband won't do things the way I do them. I guess what comforts me with that is to know that no matter what my kids would survive. We all get through what we need to. We teach the kids about our beliefs in the afterlife, we talk about things when Grandpa died, and we try to prepare ourselves. My worry is about those things we cannot control. I understand that children die, but I am not sure I could deal with one of my children's death.:( I tear up at the thought. My husband thinks that if that happened you should be happy because they are in a better place. We believe that. If a person uses logic, I cannot justify being upset, except to say that it is a selfish feeling. Maybe I should just chalk it up to, that's okay. Heck I was even upset when we had to put our dog down.

If you believe in an afterlife that will last all of eternity... the time we have here (maximum 100 years) then this time on earth is really quite short.:eek: Looking at our existence, this is just a blink in time. I think that is why we should try to learn as much as we can while we are here. We don't get to take our home, car, bank account or anything like that with us. We get our knowledge, heart and experiences... I hope we make it good. That's just my opinion.

I really enjoy reading and learning from what everyone has to say.;)

[Krs]

I am not convinced that we stay in a recognizable enough form to catch up like that. I somewhat suspect (given what I have "seen" firsthand in my life so far) that this life now is something like a cocoon and that death makes for such a transformation that the "butterfly" on the other side, for lack of a better analogy, simply wouldn't have that kind of need? I know that sounds sorta sad but I have had many vivid impressions that repeatedly suggest that we don't fully understand it now and yet we do later -- rather like a child who wants only candy for dinner thinks when she can't have it, that is something to be sad about. Did that make any sense or answer it for you Krs? Some of this is not real firm in my mind too; I am still learning, exploring...:o

Yes, makes perfect sense actually what you explain!

Mum once told a story. Mums uncle was in hospital dying. He was my mums dads brother. My grandfather passed early. He was a smoker, big time, d bit I remember of him, he always had a cigarette in his mouth.

Anyway All the family were around mums uncle. His heart was failing, he open his eyes and looked at relatives and said "Charlie, (his brothers name)", smiled, then said, "i smell cigarettes, Charlie is here"... Closed his eyes and died!

What does that mean? I mean there couldn't really be a smell of cigarettes in a hospital!

[valinors_sorrow]

Yes, makes perfect sense actually wat u explain!

Mum once told a story. Mums uncle was in hospital dying. He was my mums dads brother. My grandfather passed early. He was a smoker, big time, d bit i remember of him, he always had a cigarette in his mouth.

Anyways All the family were around mums uncle. His heart was failing, he open his eyes and looked at relatives and said "Charlie, (his brothers name)", smiled, then said, "i smell cigarettes, Charlie is here"... Closed his eyes and died!

What does that mean? I mean there couldnt really be a smell of cigarettes in a hospital!

I have witnessed this sort of thing too and I think there is actually a medical explanation for it. I believe the brain, and subsequently the mind and its vast store of memories, can be so affected by the dying process that some memories turn up as vivid enough to mistake them as you have mentioned.

Humans are capable of recalling aromas from memory to the point of seeming to be smelling them in the present. They discovered some of that playing around with Smell-O-Vision (tv with supposedly aroma LOL) back in the 60's. I know I have done it with my long-gone mother's Joy perfume. And have you never had an aroma "stick" in your nose in some unusual experience? I smelled the gunpower from the first time at a firing range for days as part of how hyped my anxiety was over it. Same deal.

Then again there may be something to the adage "when you die, your whole life passes before you" -- I think we have a stage where we are held accountable for everything we do so maybe it's a part of that?

[Krs]

Its like the tunnel with white bright light at the end. I also believe that is the brain shutting down, sort of as what you explained above.

[Cassie]

I do Yoga and meditation and I have experienced a white light, it stems from my head and goes to the universe, I can see no end. It happens once in a while and it gives me a feeling beyond belief and after I am finished the peace is overwhelming. I will feel a low vibration in my body for some time. Totally wonderful. I believe when I die it will will be there to lead my spirit.

[valinors_sorrow]

Nods and smiles joyfully at Cassie! I too have what I call "bliss attacks" that come mostly when I am doing something very mundance and repetitive -- like meditation is. It's an unmistakable sudden shift in consciousness that is indescribable, well, "tremendous bliss" is as close as words come. LOL

[keleevin]

Many fear the unknowns. Most humans like certainties in life.

In this modern days, religions still have it's role - to provide 'certainties'. If you do this, you will get that. OR if you are suffering from this it's because of what you did. Religion attempts to explain things Science fails to. It works on your mind - like medicine is to the body.

Can you accept no explanation for some things in life? Like why you are born with only 1 mouth when you have 2 eye, nostrils, ears, etc. If cannot accept uncertainties, you need religion to put your mind to ease - to continue with life.

Death is a natural process. Like earth spinning round the sun. Like sun rising from east to west. Anyone wants to explain why it's better from east to west and not the other way?

Acceptance of death is important - no question ask. If you need answers, you need some religion help. Science won't pacify you. The key is accepting the Truth.

[aqua@home]

I don't believe that I need religion to put my mind at ease for what uncertainties I cannot accept. And I'm not sure that religion is able to answer all of my questions either.

I think that I have to have faith in order to deal with any uncertainties or the so-called Truth that science sometimes offers. I don't think science is right about everything they seem to be able to prove. In many ways I believe there to be some things science can prove and something's they are wrong about. For example: I don't necessarily believe in evolution with a human being. I choose to believe that we are made in the image of God and we are what we are suppose to be.

Maybe my faith is "religion" based or maybe it's just something in me that says that there has to be something greater than myself.

BTW... I believe that we have only one mouth and two eyes and ears, because we should do at least twice as much listening and watching than talking.

[keleevin]

Religion, faith, beliefs... and perhaps other words describing schools of thoughts that is different from Science.

Science attempts to explain and give better understanding about our environment. Science emphasis on practical theories. Science attempts to prove higher and deeper knowledge (core). No doubt science has limitations to explain beyond what we cannot see or hear or feel. But at least, everyone is encourage to argue to contradict to offer better opinion if it makes more sense.

Religion, faith and beliefs cannot be contradicted. 'Blind' faith must prevail.

Just to let you pounder about this...

God may not look like anything you ever imagine. However, is there a painting of God somewhere? Does HE look more like a male or a female? Is Jesus a male or female? Is the Buddha a male or a female? An what about other gods or deities. Do most of them appear in the male form or female?

Somehow I think more appears in the male form. Why? I don't know. Could most form of believes and religions be MAN made (see the word man-made is so gender bais)? Most believes/religions were founded thousands of years ago. Back then males hold power, females serve man. Back then, male demands respect from females and not the other way. Males love power. Males love to be in control.

Back in the past, civilizations do not have very established law. There are no courts. A society can only be kept in order if everyone adhere to some common understanding. Religions/beliefs help to achieve that... Whoever introduce it at the beginning before LAW comes in, does it with good will. My point is religion/beliefs could be man-made to provide stability to the world. If not, you would be able to do whatever you want without remorse. Man would rape ladies. Stronger man would kill weaker man (the way of the animals) to gain material needs. Just to name some examples.

[MARK M]

Im 27 And Up Until A Couple Of Years Ago I Never Thought About It. Now I Think About It Nearly Every Day. I Don't Know Why . Im Not Sure If Go On Elsewhere I Hope We Do I Really Do ! But I Just Can't Help Feeling God And Heaven Is The Biggest Hoax Ever! Im Not A None Believer In God But None Of Us Will Know Until Its Time To Go