[Credendovidis]

... I'll have more later ....

I hope you have lot's of time and stamina. "They" have more for you too !

:)

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[Nestorian]

I hope you have lot's of time and stamina. "They" have more for you too !

:)

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Yes, time and stamina do help, but I try to practice patience with an open mind. We all have our ways, eh. :)

Any one watch those YouTube vids? Haha, they can be rather funny.

[arcura]

Nestorian
Nope, me and YouTube do not get along well because I do not hear well at all.
I can not understand much of what is said.
Think that maybe I'm missing something important for so many seem to enjoy the YouTube.
Is there such a thing as yourtube, histube, hertube. Mytube, theirtube, credstube. Etc>
Or are those still coming in the future?
Maybe it id a blessing I can not hear them
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Nestorian]

You are aware that that criminals are a cultural group? We try to get rid of them, force them to reform, or be imprisoned. I'd argue this is genocide. So is imprisoning criminals wrong? Do they not deserve to be considered as people? So am I mistaken in believing that genocide of the criminal ,suffering, people should be handled carefully? But still, if they resist, or are about to harm another we may need to harm them? See, how there is conflict and “possible” Contradictions?

Yes, Hitler was rather cruel wasn't he. In our eyes he may have done wrong, but in his own, maybe not. And our opinions are not truth, at least not for all. See what I mean? As for your math question, hum, yes it is “true”, relatively speaking, that 4 does not =5. But one truth does not hold true for all, does it?

Yes, harming any being for entertainment is “wrong”, animals, insects, and even plants. I did agree with you and say it was true, but that's not to say every one else believes us. Our beliefs may or may not be truth, we don't know, yet. It is horrible to most, but who's to say that any of us are any better then a girl who get pregnant from her boyfriend at the age of 14, hides it and tosses it into a dumpster. I agree we should try to stop it, and make her understand what she has done, but who are we to say she should or shouldn't be anything, but taught about what she did. We are the older ones and I have never really met any one that I believe to be overly wise with there so called superior intelligence.

[Nestorian]

In my eyes we are all guilty, and we are all innocent. For I appreciate the ignorance of all. People are no more than scared animals trying to survive, only in a much larger scale of selfishness. We tend to see what situation is in front of us and call it truth because it's all we know for sure, when really just outside our mental cage is the power to ride ourselves of oppression, aggression and so on. That power is freedom. Problem is we seem to think we need things we don't, and so we buy and consume the freedom in our cages, allowing the bigger wolves on the top of the food chain in our pack to take what they want with out concern for the consequences. We are becoming aware more, but we are still nothing more than intellectual animals trying to fulfill our needs. Buy trying to fulfill our immediate “needs”, we risk any hope for future needs. Thus, we are all killers, baby killers for entertainment. So yes, killing babies for entertainment is “wrong” again we still continue to do it. Believe what you wish, but that is the truth I have come to understand, as my own. Yet, I know it's not for all. Most can't stand to think about it in fact, they are so ashamed and angered, but blame others. I blame myself, as well as others.

So, true or false that by changing the planet as we are; will likely result in the killing of many babies, just so we can have our luxuries/ entertainments?

True or false that by riding our society of criminals, a cultural group, makes genocide OK, but for this situation? (of course I would intend that they be given care of, while they learn to be “better” citizens, and only to be killed if absolutely necessary.)

True or false that the rape of trees is no less vulgar than the rape of a women, children, yes even a man? (I realize we focus on our own kind because we can't police the whole world, but that's not to say it isn't still “wrong”.)

For me, true to all. Still I know, there are always going to be those who will disagree. So truth to me, not to others.

[Nestorian]

“Here you're changing the subject to something different, to our treatment of animals and the environment.” --you Am I? Or are they one and the same?? In my eyes yes, yours maybe not. “we are what we eat.” “everything is connected to everything else.” -- Thomas Maslow I think?
YODA, ““Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”

Yes yes, I know the force is not real, but in this case I'm talking about the connection from us to all the world. Like cells and elements/chemicals are apart of us, so are we, trees, rivers, animals, insects, dirt, soil, lava, and so on apart of “Our Mother Earth.” One affects the other, no?

Yes we do agree the environment is being misunderstood/used. Yoda is quite hard to disagree with. J

[Nestorian]

“Again, from the fact that people can and do hold different opinions it doesn't follow that all of those opinions are right. Some are wrong. It's our job to figure out which ones are true and which are false and to jettison our false beliefs in favor of true beliefs. This is what education is all about.” -- you

Is it now? I was always under the impression that education was about getting a job to pay for your life. Or to simply learn, weather you decide to used what you've learned for good or ill purposes. Well that is up to each individual, I wish it wasn't. I do agree it would be great if people would use knowledge to do good with, not bad.
I know this may sound bad, but I often ponder weather the medical advances in our world are healthy for the balance of our “ecosystem”? In one way its great for us, keeps us alive, on the other; then we are able to do more damage, unless in the rare case we choose to let go of our illusions.
I have learned that “knowledge is power, because through knowledge we can achieve freedom. But with freedom comes great responsibility.” I took a few sayings and mied them together, I think it makes a huge impact on the ideals of our societies, and how foolish we are to think that we can do as we please, with in the bounds of LAW, and think we are “free.”
Have you heard of the “Iron Cage”? Max Weber I think wrote on it. The idea that we are major consumers and thus become caged in our own ideals. I would go as far as to say we become mindless slaves to the false ideals of consumerism.

[Nestorian]

“My question concerned killing babies for *entertainment*. Would you agree that it is wrong to go around killing small children just for kicks? Would you agree that it is never okay to kill small children just for the fun of it?” - You

Ok I'll come clean, yes I do agree with you. That still don't make it right for us to say that our opinions are fact, and truth. Again, I go back to the animals, we treat them like wretched creatures from some nether world. How is that any different? Killing any baby is horrible. Yet, we allow it by “consuming/ buying” the things we “thing” we need. And many say there is nothing we can do, or who cares? Is any of it true?? Only relatively.

“Then how will you ever commit to anything? …caring about anything?”
J In the department of commitment, I'm committed to everything, nothing, and anything, as I see is necessary. See, like you may have noticed I've tied things together, that most would not. I understand that there is a balance, and if one thing is removed or altered, then everything else must learn to adapt. Problem is, a lot of things can't just adapt. So they die, and that alters the balance more, and again things must learn to adapt, but once again some things can not, until… We all know the rest.

[Nestorian]

“Because believing and caring are commitments, and this requires closing off certain possibilities. To believe that it is wrong to kill children for the fun of it is to reject the possibility that it is a good thing to kill children for the fun of it. Isn't this a part of maturity?”--You

Are they? Once again that is a matter of opinion, or you wouldn't ask. Let me try to explain this,

You have your solid “undeniable truth”, another person has that same “undeniable truth”; however, you differ on some matters. Like is genocide wrong, or is rape wrong, or is killing babies for entertainment wrong. The topics are far too broad and are open to subjective interpretation, and there for one's truth is not the same as another's. Like the song goes, I believe it's buffalo Springfield's - For what it's worth, “… No bodies right if every bodies wrong.” Every one argues they are right, but do they really know? I could be just telling you a bunch of nonsense, but at the same time it could be the most important thing you ever here, or it could be any number of personalities. What ever works for you. For me, I've found that I've a strange understanding of not just my own way, but also others. I can see why Cred believes what he believes, though, I'd still say it's still all subject to change, as well as differences in interpretation, and explanation. Does it matter if there is evidence of something? Sure, it allows us to understand how things work, we area curious breed, but animals don't care about that, only that things work. That's not to say they are any less important to our world. I can also see why you believe in GOD, it may not be your specific reason, but it allows me to understand you nonetheless.
I don't need to say that my beliefs are right, wrong, or truth. The truth will find us in the end, no? Question is, when is the end? :)

[Nestorian]

“You may be right about that, but that's a different topic. We're talking about truth; the very important question about responsibility is distinct from that. Although you do appear to take it to be *true* that we are "all equally responsible". It seems to me that when it gets right down to it, you know that there is a difference between truth and falsity. You give evidence of that here.”--you

Do I? Do you remember when I said, “…there is no truth”? Then I started talking about profound truths? “…the opposite of a profound truth may very well be another profound truth.”? “…there is no truth.”, implies that it is a false statement, because why would you believe that there is no truth, if it is stating it as a truth. Messed up, I know. That means the only logical answer is, “There is only truth.” Again, it is not true, nor false, it simply is what it is, A statement. It can be considered true, false, or any number of possibilities. There are truths, but its up to us to determine weather or not to believe it. Thus making it true if we believe, and false if we don't, and if your like me true when applicable, false when not.
Are you getting the idea?

“Learning is good. It bares fruit in knowledge.” --You

Is it? What about the atom bomb, hydrogen bomb, guns, drugs??

“You know lots of things, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to log on and post a question, navigate your environment, etc.” --you

:) We may know things, but do we understand them?

[Nestorian]

“By genocide I was thinking about things like the Holocaust. (War, as awful as it is, is another topic. I asked specifically about genocide.) I'm willing to bet you'd agree that the Holocaust was bad, and that things like the Holocaust are *always* bad.” --you

Hum, I may agree that I think It's “bad”, but I don't know that it was good or bad. If you believe in GOD, and that he is the only judge of us, then that is only for him to know, and all for me to question. I'd do what I can to stop it from ever happening, but who's to say that if Hitler didn't do what he did, that we wouldn't be worse off today, with some other war. Like I said, “there is no good or bad, only possibilities.” -- ME I hope we don't, but still who knows what should or shouldn't happen. We are programmed to survive, at all costs. I do however have faith that People, will find their way, and learn to accept what will happen. We are quite surprising at times.


“Now you're playing with language. I think it's pretty clear that I meant rape as sexual assault.

[Nestorian]

“And, yes, we do shirk our responsibilities. And responsibility requires commitment.”--you

Hum, yeah you could see it that I'm playing with language. I'm trying to open your mind, to the possibilities. Am I really that “bad” or are you afraid of what I've come to realize as truth? I am the most compassionate, caring, understanding, loving, honorable, respecting, and honest person I know. But does that make me those things? Maybe, maybe not.

“Never said anything close to that. I do think that some of your views are confused, though. That's what we're talking about here.” --You

Confused am I?
If you find that I'm confused, don't worry, you may be right! I know I'm confused But why do you think I'm confused?

“How on earth would I know whether you are good or bad? I've had a couple of brief exchanges with you on an internet forum.” -- You

Very logical, and fair enough.

“Really, no good or bad? I think this talk about possibilities is talk. I bet you think that the Holocaust, the systematic extermination of men, women, and children on account of their religion or ethnicity, is wrong. I bet you think that our reckless and reprehensible degradation of the environment is wrong--otherwise I doubt you'd mention it as often as you have.”

I think I need to explain the idea of good or bad only possibilities. The reason that there would be no good or bad is you would have to drop the labels of what something is, and see it for what it is. Just one of many different possibilities. See, if there is no good or bad, there are just possibilities; and we have the power to over come and change a possibility, weather it's a good or bad one. See behind the idea I stated is, a deeper more complex idea. Read if for what it states and you loose yourself, read it for what it implies and gain new possibilities. No?

[Nestorian]

I mention the environment because with out it, we wouldn't be. One cannot survive with out the other.

Weather I think something is right or wrong doesn't mean others do. Events are events until we decide to take them and label them. It is not truth, nor something we can say as absolute. Ben Kanobi, “Only a Sith deals in absolute.” Others will argue against our ideas, logic, and beliefs. Just like people argue about OSE, and what It really means. Or the interpretation of the bible, or the words of Jesses. It is all subject to one's interpretation, there for change, and maybe unstable. I could say, “Life is Good.” People would take it, and argue what it meant, what I meant, what it matters, and so on.

“But as I've said, from that mere fact alone it doesn't follow that all those opinions are true.”-you

Humm, indeed. Theirs are no more true than ours. Remember what Buffalo Springfield said?

No I won't. Fair enough, I was thinking about becoming an R.C.M.P. and going to china before hand for 3 years and train with the Shaolin Monks the ancient art of KUNG FU. Very hard program, but once you've gone in it, you are like the most disciplined and focused solider, Police man/women, or guard. Here are some words from Buddha

Believe nothing no matter where you read it, no matter who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and common sense.

First rely on the spirit and meaning of the teachings not on the words.

Second rely on the teachings not on the personality of the teacher.

Third rely on real wisdom not superficial interpretation.

Fourth rely on the essence of your pure wisdom mind not on judgmental perceptions.

Peace be with you.

[arcura]

Nestorian,
Thanks much for your thot on that <Yoda.
LOL.
Fred

[Nestorian]

So you "Stumbled Upon" that . But without reference this is called plagiarism .....

An "Amazing Post" : The Four Reliances : Famous Buddhist Quotes & Sayings

Bravo ???

;)

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I tried to figure it out, but didn't. Thanks Cred, for correcting me and giving reffrence. I do not wish to claim ones work for my own, just to speread what they teach.

Though, I did not find it there, where you did, I got it from a YouTube vid, just didn't recall which one. I'll find it hold a tick...

Here it is!

YouTube - Wisdom of the Buddha

Sorry guys. Didn't intend for the plagiarism.

Peace be with you.

[Credendovidis]

Sorry guys. Didn't intend for the plagiarism.

No problem . Everyone of us can forget to mention that. You corrected yourself properly with this !

Here is another source of this Buddhist basic (LINK).

See the bottom block of links to various information on Buddhist Beliefs.

:)

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[jjdupree]

No problem . Everyone of us can forget to mention that. You corrected yourself properly with this !

Here is another source of this Buddhist basic (LINK).

See the bottom block of links to various information on Buddhist Beliefs.

:)

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Hello John, hope all is well with you. I saw where the windmills were all frozen in holland. Hope you are keeping warm in them pointy shoes :)

[jjdupree]

BTW, is aton still dead?)

[Fr_Chuck]

Hi Jjdupree, and bye, sad banned users trying to come back under new user names.

[cozyk]

The Bible is not talking about physical atributes when it says we are created in God's image. Our Spirit is created in God's image. God is a spiritual being, man is a being that consists of Spirit, Soul, and Body. So man's spirit being is what has been created in God's image.

THIS is my idea of "created in his image". Physical characteristics mean nothing.