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Chery · Jul 14, 2006, 03:14 AM

BOSTON (AP) The Massachusetts Legislature has voted to postpone its debate on a proposed gay marriage amendment until after the November general election

Amazing how they now opt to wait until after the election...

After reading this, I wash shocked that a lot of 'closet puritans' want to ban marriages... then why not change the law so that partners in life have certain legal rights accordingly.

There are no longer Christmas decorations allowed in federal buildings, and much more changed in schools; there is literature being banned still; many media and historical literature are baized; and discrimination still goes on.

Are there maybe indications that a handful of those privileged few can determine what is right and what is wrong - and based on what?

What happened to liberty and the pursuit of happiness - maybe not meant to be what it is now, but society has changed and we should be tolerant enough to accept those changes.

Would appreciate your views on this. Thanks.

I think there are many more serious political issues in the world that need more attention and expenditure -

Krs · Jul 14, 2006, 04:24 AM

I wonder why these changes have been made in the first place? :cool:

Chery · Jul 14, 2006, 05:09 AM

Your guess is as good as mine.

I think the easiest question here is what has NOT changed... the list might be smaller.

Krs · Jul 14, 2006, 05:12 AM

I mean, I've asked myself this question esp about Xmas.
Why shudnt we be allowed to have decorations esp in schools. Kids love Xmas it's a festive season, meant to be a jolly one too!

talaniman · Jul 14, 2006, 05:20 AM

You mean liberty and justice for all who do as I do. In other words if you are not with the mainstream christian way of living you will not be tolerated or allowed a piece of the American pie. If you do not want to go back to the way it use to be no pie for you either. This is a christian based country and how dare you come to America with all these strange ideas that go against my bible and expect a piece of my pie. Let the world change I won't!!

This is the kind of crap I have been hearing and that makes the policy here. I say move over and gimme a piece of that pie, I'm as American as you. Who cares what someone does in his own home?

Krs · Jul 14, 2006, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

You mean liberty and justice for all who do as I do. In other words if you are not with the mainstream christian way of living you will not be tolerated or allowed a piece of the American pie. If you do not want to go back to the way it use to be no pie for you either. This is a christian based country and how dare you come to America with all these strange ideas that go against my bible and expect a piece of my pie. Let the world change I won't!!!

This is the kind of crap I have been hearing and that makes the policy here. I say move over and gimme a piece of that pie, I'm as American as you. Who cares what someone does in his own home?

I like the way you talk Tal, we are on the same wave length :)
Couldn't spread the love

Chery · Jul 14, 2006, 06:11 AM

AMEN, TAL...

Who's behind the agenda for what gets set before and political party to make a decision on?

Were we asked if we think that a subject, any subject, but his one in particular - that there should be no gay marriages - just because someone close to the top does not like gays and does not want then to have rights?

I know some people who don't like blonds... if they have enough money, can get their issue to the politicians - does that mean that blondes will be banned, or will they have to dye their hair?? Does this sound stupid - well the bill on gay marriages sounds stupid to me too.

I think if you truly love someone and live with someone for a lifetime, you should benefit from the insurance policy he/she placed in your name, should be able to decide where to bury him/her, and should be able to be in the hospital when he/she needs you most. Some same-sex couples even make better parents than some that don't even deserve children (abuse, etc).

Yup, I'm also more confused...

What has politics and waiting until 'after the elections' matter?? Who are they trying to manipulate?

Just my humble but sometimes very frustrated opinion.

Thanks for 'listening'.

talaniman · Jul 14, 2006, 06:17 AM

It comes down to hatred and intolerance, backed by fear of change and new ideas. The good news change will come, the bad news some will try to fight it

valinors_sorrow · Jul 14, 2006, 07:35 AM

Have you seen Brokeback Mountain yet? It was as well done as they said. I am observing that prejudice of all kinds is beginning to wage some of its last battles, and it has to do with our shrinking world and the dawning of the information age. As a result of those two phenomenal things, it becomes more and more evident that if its to be considered a solution, it must work for all, not just some. I agree with you Tal, it is good news indeed!

However, I contend that we've had a big disconnect between the people and the governing leaders for a long time now in the US so it will be slow to reflect this. I still believe in the powerful Gandhi quote: "I must be the change in the world I seek."

NeedKarma · Jul 14, 2006, 07:50 AM

This is going to sound weird coming from me :D but...
I respect the Church and its view on this. It defined its own definition of marriage and it really should not have to rewrite it. I have no problems at all with gays wanting to get same benefits and being in a union together but it should be a civil union. I'm a fair guy, I don't expect the church to change its ways.

BTW, my daughter's godparents are my wife's gay uncle and his partner and my sister. Cool eh?

tomder55 · Jul 14, 2006, 08:14 AM

then why not change the law so that partners in life have certain legal rights accordingly.

Couldn't agree more . It is only fair that legally they should have the same privileges as married couples including hospital visitation etc... all the inequities that are complained about should be addressed.

However ;Marriage is between a man and a women . If the state can't live with that then it should get out of the marriage sanctioning business.

Chery · Jul 14, 2006, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This is going to sound weird coming from me :D but.....
I respect the Church and its view on this. It defined its own definition of marriage and it really should not have to rewrite it. I have no problems at all with gays wanting to get same benefits and being in a union together but it should be a civil union. I'm a fair guy, I don't expect the church to change its ways.

BTW, my daughter's godparents are my wife's gay uncle and his partner and my sister. Cool eh?

It has been proved throughout history that the church and politics should keep a distance - for the better of all.

Seems to me that governments don't always do enough caring or helping those who put them in office in the first place. So... is money doing most of the talking?

OK, I'm having a hormone crisis and there is nothing I as one person can do about what frustrates me today, so I'll get off my soapbox.

Thanks again for the shoulders - very comfy ones at that.

DARN, now I lost my emoticons...

What next.

Jonegy · Jul 16, 2006, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Chery

Seems to me that governments don't always do enough caring or helping those who put them in office in the first place. So.... is money doing most of the talking?

...

What next.

But they DO care Chery ------------ Very, very much...

But only just BEFORE an election...

Once they're in - it's straight to the back of the filing cabinet until the next election.

There is a brilliant cartoon on the Brazilian neswpaper site - o globo - just on this subject...

The interviewer is asking the politician...

" .... and how many of the promises that have got you re-elected 10 times, do you intend to carry out this time ???? "

Just loved it - subtle as a sledge-hammer :D

Fr_Chuck · Jul 16, 2006, 06:36 PM

I will address the core issue, where it was states that "they wish to ban gay marriage"

I would suggest they should not have to ban something that was never allowed or legal in the US to start with. The only reason it is now allowed is that a court, not the public or the law makers, said it was OK.

By law courts can not make new laws, so their ruling is by into itself illegal. For something to have become a law and permitted, the state law makers would have had to vote on it, and pass it as a law, or the voters would have had to vote on it.

By and large in every state where it was voted on, it has failed big time.

Does this mean that they should be denied other equal rights, well not some. Let us say housing, I believe that I should have the right to deny housing to someone who lives a life style I find sickening. It is my house, I own it, where is my rights? In general a sexual life style is not and should not be a protected class. What is next child molester rights, sex with animal rights, there has to be a line somewhere.

talaniman · Jul 16, 2006, 07:31 PM

Just curious ,Fr. Chuck, How would you know they are gay? Do you ask?

VBNomad · Aug 7, 2006, 10:54 PM

"there has to be a line somewhere" Yes Fr_chuck. It's called the law. We don't allow child molesting or sex with animals. Nice tactic. Relate your opposition to an unrelated but disgusting topic. A point of view impossible to defend.
Are you implying that gay lifestlyes are analogous to molesting or bestiality? Are you saying that there a similar lobby working to free up the laws of such practices?

Yes I understand the appeal of owner control over who he rents to. But I can't believe you don't see the slippery slope. How soon does a person's religion, skin color, ethnic origin work into the "not in under my roof" equation. Very soon we will be back to a heavily segregated society. Just so a homeowner can feel comfortable in his bigotry? America is supposed to be better than that.

valinors_sorrow · Aug 8, 2006, 03:57 AM

Looks to Canada and asks America-- are we paying attention here, we who are supposed to be living in the land of the free and the home of the brave?

luvee · Aug 8, 2006, 04:47 AM

It's hard changing the society... ignoring or banning, still can't do anything about it. I may not be familiar with the American law since I come from the Philippines, but I believe changes must start from each of us first. By then, its easy to change society when everyone is changed. Not unless we are united, this chaos will still continue and peace will not be obtained.
What's the best thing we do? As they say, family is the foundation of every society... start the changes within your family.

talaniman · Aug 8, 2006, 05:02 AM

We can start in America by voting out some of these greedy, close minded, politicians, with all the lobbyist and special interest groups in their back pocket. They should be serving US, we the people, not we serve them and their corporate Fat Cats.

luvee · Aug 8, 2006, 05:41 AM

Same problem here in the Phil, although we thought, AMerica has trustworthy politicians than here in our country. But, its already a trend, some tend to be ambitious when in power. Not even a holy man can do anything about it... that's human nature. And besides, its hard knowing who's righteous enough and who's not; who has the interest of serving the people or the other way around. It's tough...