[tomder55]

Depends I guess when you think human life begins and when that human life is eligible for legal constitutional protection .

[Synnen]

It's not a "child" until it is born. It is a fetus.

Until it is viable outside of the womb, it really isn't even CLOSE to a child.

And really--how long does it take to PROVE rape, incest, abuse? Do you make her wait until it goes through courts? Or do you grant the abortion and THEN watch it go through courts? How many people will be falsely accused of horrendous crimes if you do?

As far as health of the mother--does her mental and emotional health mean nothing compared to her physical health? If it will literally make her crazy to raise a child or to give it to someone else to raise--doesn't that count as much as it causing her to hemorrhage? Who are YOU to decide what "health" is?

If everyone who is so adamantly against abortion went out and adopted a foster child that the mother couldn't bear to give up for adoption, but wasn't ready for and neglected or abused and had her children taken from her for it---well, I might concede your point. Maybe. But many of the kids in the foster care system weren't planned, weren't wanted, and now will have extremely tough lives loaded with mental and emotional issues because NO ONE wanted them.

So... you say no abortions because it's KILLING. What do you suggest those women do? Give birth, and then deal with the pain & suffering that is adoption? Give birth, raise their child in poverty, depending on the state (and tax dollars I feel can be better allocated) for every single thing she needs to raise the child?

Gianna is proof of nothing except that abortions where the fetus is VIABLE should not happen. How many abortions where the baby is able to just be born and survive actually happen?

[inthebox]

Until it is viable outside of the womb, it really isn't even CLOSE to a child.

Can that same reasoning be applied to those in nursing homes, or those on ventilators, or those that need round the clock nursing care?

Is that the next step? That is some slippery slope.

As to what about rape ?

Abortion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[9] Another study, in 1998, revealed that in 1987-1988 women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:[10]

What of the other 99%?


As to "viability"

WPClinic.org : Choices You Can Live With » First Trimester


If we apply that reason to manufacturing, lets abort all produced goods before they reach the end of an assembly line because they are not " viable." Lets abort growing food because they are not "viable" to the end of growing season.





g&p

[Tuscany]

Honestly you know what kills me the most... there are some people who believe in pro - life so much that they TAKE ANOTHER LIFE in support of it. It happened in another city close to where I live. Pro-life demonstrators killed a Dr. who was entering a clinic... hmmmm not to pro-life if you ask me.

[spitvenom]

Can that same reasoning be applied to those in nursing homes, or those on ventilators, or those that need round the clock nursing care?

If you have to be taken care of 24 hours a day or need machine's to make you live then you should have the choice of assisted suicide. I don't understand why people would fight that. Lets see if I incurable cancer and Have a year to live I have to suffer then my family suffers financially and emotionally and then I die. OR I could have an assisted suicide I don't suffer any more my family doesn't suffer I just die. Why is that wrong?

[tomder55]

What is viability ? Every child depends on an adult long past their birth . Premies can be cared for outside the womb and survive . The world's youngest premie was born at 21 weeks .

[sndbay]

Ironic that Herod would have been all in favor of aborting and killing all male infants.
And what timing of PP to promote their "services" during the Christmas season :eek:


g&p

Yes and if you think about this, would we like what Christ would say? I realize not all believe in God, but even those that don't believe, usually come forward to say they are capable of love for others.

The fact is that at 10 weeks the baby has feet, 24 days the heart begins to beat, 48 days the brain waves can be reported. And spiritually God has given the soul to the womb, as was Christ present in spirit when Mary told of her pregancy to her cousin the very next day. So from conception the soul is present..

Men in war give up their life for our rights to freedom and life. The willingness to give and love others is shown of their hearts and courage. We have heroes around us each day that give their lives for others. And as a mother, I would give my life for a child any day of the week.

We should bring love forward and stand above any evil.. The price to end evil should never be death of a innocent baby.. We fight evil and destroy evil because it is evil.

Can anyone look upon a baby and say it is evil?

Part 1
GodTube.com - davisc - Gianna Jessen - Abortion Survivor (Part 1 of 2)

Part 2
GodTube.com - davisc - Gianna Jessen - Abortion Survivor (Part 2 of 2)

Abortion is evil, and my heart can never justify the killing of an innocent baby.

[Synnen]

21 weeks is still middle of the second trimester, not the FIRST trimester, which is all most states allow for abortion. It's not even CLOSE to full term.

"Viable" 1: capable of living ; especially : having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb <a viable fetus>
2: capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>
3 a: capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives> b: capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state> c (1): having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2): financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>

From here viable - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Yes, a child depends on care for long after it is out of the womb---but the difference is that the care can come from ANYONE at that point. Prior to that, it is dependent SOLELY upon the pregnant woman.

PS--I don't believe in your god. His rules are absolutely worthless when arguing your point with me.

Believe what you like. I will continue to fight for the rights for women to choose. And believe me, if somehow those rights are overturned, I will make sure that the rights some of you take for granted about choosing in your own life are going to be overturned as well---rights such as choosing when to have a child, whether to have a child, how many children can you have, what kind of birth control you have to use, and whether it is permanent after you have your last child. If MY reproductive choices get taken away in favor of a clump of cells, you're damned right that I will work towards getting EVERYONE'S reproductive choices taken away.

And you want to talk about slippery slopes?

[speechlesstx]

You guys talk about "viability" but ignore things like value. You say it isn't a child it's just a "fetus." Yeah, with fingers and toes, and eyes and ears...





Thank you National Geographic.

[spitvenom]

Babies look like aliens to me. I know we all start like that but man babies are ugly.

[speechlesstx]

what is viability ? every child depends on an adult long past their birth . Premies can be cared for outside the womb and survive . The world's youngest premie was born at 21 weeks .

I have a niece who was not much more than that, she weighed 1 lb 8 ounces when born. That's a less than 1% chance of survival according to statistics. She's a bit small still but a healthy, gorgeous, bright, 8 year old girl now. I can't imagine not giving her a chance.

[sndbay]

So...you say no abortions because it's KILLING. What do you suggest those women do? Give birth, and then deal with the pain & suffering that is adoption? Give birth, raise their child in poverty, depending on the state (and tax dollars I feel can be better allocated) for every single thing she needs to raise the child ?

The pain and suffering? Is it because she has feeling of love for this child? because that is a reality that usually is found in the heart. Love for a baby. Otherwise there is no pain or suffering in giving a child their right to live and allow the adoption. I am not without reason to understand the emotional high jacking there would be in a situation of rape. But I feel we to quickly jump to abortion being the answer in favor because we are programmed in thinking what if. Also people react to what others might think or say if indeed the mother kept the baby.

We kill babies in abortion, but we allow men that rape women to live. Now how sick is that? And whether you believe in God or not, our nation of Christians was set up as a nation under God. The bible tells us to kill the man that rapes and murders. Send those back to God where they came, and God will deal with their sin. In other words destroy evil, and protect man and woman from evil.

I believe we have made the wrong choice in what is right. If we followed God's instruction, I could believe and imagine there would be less rapes..

Gianna is proof of nothing except that abortions where the fetus is VIABLE should not happen. How many abortions where the baby is able to just be born and survive actually happen?

Did you view the decision Gianna said? Up until President Bush stopped this action by putting it into law, it was a regular occurance. So we are gaining in the forward stand for life.

[Synnen]

I'm done. Unsubscribing.

[NeedKarma]

If we followed God's instruction, I could believe and imagine there would be less rapes..

You've had 200 years, it's not working.

[speechlesstx]

You've had 200 years, it's not working.

200 years of what, NK? Following God's instruction? Since Roe v. Wade in 1973 there have been some 52 million abortions in the US. Is that what you call following God's instruction?

[NeedKarma]

Sorry, meant to say 2000 years. And I was referring to rapes.

[sndbay]

You've had 200 years, it's not working.

Sorry, meant to say 2000 years. And I was referring to rapes.

Not sure what you mean.. What has been done 2000 year with rape that isn't working?

We certainly haven't done what God instructed for murders and men who rape women..

[Skell]

It doesn't matter if third trimester abortions are illegal or not, Gianna's story is relevant.

So is Synnen's story relevant. Very actually. But because it doesn't agree with your beliefs you simply ignore it.

If third trimester abortions are now illegal then I don't see how Gianna's story is relevant.

And posting cute little photos isn't a real argument in my opinion.
Ill find some photo's of a kid where grand daddy decided to get mummy pregnant. Or maybe some photos of a mother
And you talk about drama and imaginary...

[speechlesstx]

So is Synnen's story relevant. Very actually. but because it doesn't agree with your beliefs you simply ignore it.

If third trimester abortions are now illegal then i dont see how Gianna's story is relevant.

And posting cute little photos isn't a real argument in my opinion.
Ill find some photo's of a kid where grand daddy decided to get mummy pregnant. Or maybe some photos of a mother
And you talk about drama and imaginary...

Skell, I never said Synnen's story wasn't relevant and I don't ignore it. In fact I said "I have no doubt that adoption is often traumatic for the birth mother," which I guess you missed.

Gianna's story is MOST relevant regardless of what abortions are illegal, or have you forgotten those "fetuses" become Giannas? And as tom pointed out the youngest surviving infant was born at 21 weeks, along with my 1 lb 8 ounce niece - both being born in the second trimester.

And it's nice to know you think National Geographic's groundbreaking presentation of life in the womb is "imaginary."

[NeedKarma]

And it's nice to know you think National Geographic's groundbreaking presentation of life in the womb is "imaginary."

The images you posted are later term and computer generated.