[excon]

Hello wingers of all persuasions:

Well, you Christians wanted YOUR stuff displayed in public, and so it was... That should make you Christians happy. YOUR message IS in the public square... Nobody is trying to REMOVE your nativity scene, like they used to... Nope, you guys WON that battle..

But, hold on a minute podner... That danged governor of ours said that if the public arena is open for religious display, then it should be open to ALL religious displays...

No?? Just yours? Cause we're a Christian nation??

In any case, we're NOT a Christian nation. So, some atheist group put a sign alongside the nativity scene in the public square. It says “There is only one natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”

So, what's wrong with that?

excon

[tomder55]

Here is the text :
”At this season of the winter solstice, may reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.”

What does it say positive about atheism ? Nothing . All it does is attack other's faith . Maybe you should edit the posting to say it is some anti-theist group.

Christmas was declared a United States Federal holiday in 1870 by an act of Congress .

Before the 19th century, many Americans worked on Christmas, but in the industrial era the holiday began also to honor universal values, such as home, children and family life, and to incorporate secular customs like exchanging gifts and cards, and the decoration and display of evergreen "Christmas Trees." Congress proclaimed Christmas a federal holiday in 1870. In 1999, a federal court acknowledged these secular aspects in rejecting a claim that the holiday impermissibly endorsed and furthered a particular religious belief.

An Overview of U.S. Holidays

By that reasoning it is perfectly acceptable to have Christmas celebrated in the public square.

[excon]

Hello tom:

Thanks for the complete text.

It DOESN'T say anything positive about atheism, because there is no atheism to BE positive about. Atheism isn't something - it's a LACK of something.

Notwithstanding the courts ruling, Christmas IS a religious holiday. It just is. You can pretend it isn't.. But, if it quacks like a duck and all that stuff...

But, I don't have any problem with Christmas being celebrated in the public square, as long as the public square is open to anybody who wants celebrate something. That's what this ruling is all about - INCLUSIVENESS!! You just don't happen to like what was included.

Why is the atheist message less important than the Christmas message?

excon

[NeedKarma]

Christmas IS a religious holiday. It just is. You can pretend it isn't..

Uh, Christmas is Santa Claus, and elves, and presents! What cave have you been in??

[KBC]

I see the atheist's,as you said,as a non messenger,but an entity against the religion which they are taking a stand against.

I really do see both sides to this.

Tradition verses (my personal beliefs)

To change is to accept the fact that we might be growing as a nation.

When was the last time you saw that kind of change?

[tomder55]

I don't get the obsession with something you don't believe in .
It is like a vegan shaping their tofu into the shape of a burger . They even creatively use spices to make them taste like burgers.

Why do you need a symbol or to make a "sign"for a non-belief?. Not to proclaim your non-belief but to attack someone else's. That sign is a negative attack commentary ;that's all it is .It's as if we were putting up a Christmas tree that had a sign on it "all you atheists are condemned to hell"

Tell you what ; remove the word "religion " from the last sentence and replace it with the word 'Islam' and what you would have is a "hate-crime " .

[NeedKarma]

I don't get the obsession with something you don't believe in .

I don't get this obsession with something you believe in. Can't you keep it personal? An atheist's lifestyle can be celebrated just as much as a christian, don't you agree?

[KBC]

Why do you need a symbol or to make a "sign"for a non-belief?. Not to proclaim your non-belief but to attack someone else's.

And just how did the other religions start their campaign of their beliefs?

Were they not shunned and in fact killed,because they were against the populace?

[tomder55]

“I once wanted to be an atheist but I gave it up. They have no holidays!”
Henny Youngman

An atheist's lifestyle can be celebrated just as much as a christian, don't you agree?

Sure .they already have a day... May 1. :)



The problem here is that this is not a celebration of atheism . It is raw attack on religion. It is not even an equal response to a nativity scene because as I said ;all it is is a commentary against the belief of those who celebrate the nativity .

[NeedKarma]

I agree it is an attack. The wording is all wrong.

[excon]

I don't get the obsession with something you don't believe in .

Hello again, tom:

Couple things...

If you thought your president believed in four leafed clovers... Nahhh, let me rephrase that... If you thought your president based his LIFE on four leafed clovers... Nahhh, let me rephrase that again. If you thought your president, not only believed deeply in four leafed clovers, and based his life on them, but was going to indoctrinate YOU and YOUR CHILDREN with public displays of four leafed clovers, plus he has every intention of teaching a devotion to four leafed clovers in YOUR schools, then I bet you'd have an obsession with something you don't believe in.

That's kind of how I feel.

Now, if the four leafed clover fanatics wanted to believe in four leafed clovers amongst themselves, and didn't try to foist a belief in four leaved clovers upon the rest of us, I'll bet you'd be right there cheering us along. No?

excon

[tomder55]

The fact that the President celebrated 4 leaf clovers publicly would not imply he was trying to establish the belief of 4 leaf clovers as the religion of the state. The establishment clause is a 2 headed coin.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

The government cannot either establish a religion or oppose it.

[speechlesstx]

Ex, it was an attack plain and simple. Why should the state of Washington allow one group to attack another on public land?

[spitvenom]

When I was in 7th grade I was in catholic school and I kidnapped Baby Jesus from the nativity scene and left a ransom note. I asked for 30 cartons of chocolate milk by December 20th if they ever wanted to see baby Jesus again. I didn't get my milks but I did get detention for the rest of the school year. I learned then do you dirt by yourself. Snitches!

[excon]

Hello spit:

Funny!

excon

[Synnen]

“I once wanted to be an atheist but I gave it up. They have no holidays!”
Henny Youngman


sure .they already have a day .....May 1. :)



The problem here is that this is not a celebration of atheism . It is raw attack on religion. It is not even an equal response to a nativity scene because as I said ;all it is is a commentary against the belief of those who celebrate the nativity .

Excuse me... May 1 is Beltane, a pagan holiday celebrated worldwide.

Pagans are NOT atheists. Choose one of your OWN holidays to negate if you're going to negate one.

[tomder55]

Actually I was talking about the godless communist celebration .Don't blame me if they coopted the pagan holiday .

Btw .why are you not as offended with their reference to the solstice . Isn't that also a coopting of a pagan celebration ?

[Synnen]

Nah, the Christians and other faiths swiped the Solstice ages ago, and we're pretty used to them using our symbols and festivities (look up Saturnalia sometime) that time of year.

And frankly, while I think their wording was VERY poorly phrased, the sign had JUST as much right to be there as the Nativity. Each are just as offensive to either side, really, and if you're going to allow the public acknowledgment of ONE religion, you may as well recognize any and all others that show up--including atheism (lack of religion), Satanism (the belief that Lucifer was maligned and that only God's side of the story got told--victors writing history and all that jazz), Kwanzaa, Hannukah, the Pagan solstice, whatever. I feel the same way about prayer in school as I do about cities having holiday displays--I don't care if you do it, as long as you allow EVERYONE to put up their own stuff for it.

As far as it being a hate crime--it's not, really. A hate crime would have specified Christianity, since it was next to a Christian display. Instead it spoke of religion in general, and used "gods" (plural) and other symbols that are common in MANY religions. Granted, it didn't hit ALL religions (except with the use of gods), but it hit on a lot of them, rather than specifying any ONE religion.

If being anti-religion is a hate crime, I guess being "pro-religion" would have to be also, since it specifically targets those who have no religion (atheists and agnostics)

[KBC]

And now the sign is in the hands of the local cops,turned in by anonymous... hmmm,but not before the churches posted their own rebuttal.

This might become interesting.

[Galveston1]

Atheists never tire of hitting an empty sack do they?
I mean, after all, according to THEM God doesn't even exist, so what they are doing is attacking a nothing.
Seems like an exercise in futility to me.