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excon · Jul 4, 2006, 08:59 AM

Hello:

Do you think the government has any clue about what it does??

Recently, the state of Washington made playing online poker a felony. Yup – a class C felony, just like sex offenders. Now, I would like you to think about this for a minute. Here we have, let's say 1,000 ordinary people – people who work, raise their kids right, and pay their taxes – ordinary people, who are all of a sudden FELONS. These are FELONS, in my view, because of actions by the state, and not because they are bad people. I'm not spinning that fact, either. Online poker players are not even SLIGHTLY bad (and I know bad people).

Now, most of you have probably never been thought of as FELONS by anyone. So, I'm sure you can't imagine what it feels like to be BRANDED a FELON for something you do on your computer for a few hours in the evening. Certainly, if one were downloading child porn, one might have the idea by now, that one shouldn't do that. But poker?

Being thought of, by ones local cops, as a FELON, for doing nothing other than minding one's own business, in ones own home, changes a person. Some people may think, “Well, I'm already branded a FELON, so I might as well really become one”.

Or, should poker players go to prison? Oh, the poker players who play in legal casinos, where the state get's a share, don't go to prison. They're not called FELONS either. They're called customers.

From a technical point of view, the state is NOT locked out of the online poker process. They COULD tax online poker, but they CHOOSE not to. Instead they would rather make a criminal out of your neighbor, and maybe even out of you.

It's wrong, it's wrong, it's wrong. And if you misunderstood me, let me clarify – it's wrong.

excon

NeedKarma · Jul 4, 2006, 09:02 AM

Americans have lost control of their own country.

valinors_sorrow · Jul 4, 2006, 09:04 AM

Haven't we already been discussing it here in this thread?

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...ude-26769.html

Fr_Chuck · Jul 4, 2006, 09:08 AM

I never trusted that man next door anyway, now I really wonder

excon · Jul 4, 2006, 09:22 AM

Hello again, Val:

Hmmmm. That was my thread. It was my own damn thread. Youda thought I'd remember my own thread... Going to have to stop smoking that stuff... But, I will not stop playing poker.

excon

talaniman · Jul 4, 2006, 09:24 AM

Excon- I agree that the government passing laws that make online gambling illegal is a blatant abuse of power and trying to legislate behavior is wrong! Whether you approve of gambling or not should the government make laws to restrict those who are responsible because of those who are not?? NOOOOOOOO!!

spikerbiker · Oct 7, 2006, 09:46 PM

I agree with Karma - we do seem to be losing our rights, our control, too much government. Pretty soon they will find a way to tax everything, including internet usage. I am beginning to wonder, is there a better place to live?

SSchultz0956 · Oct 8, 2006, 12:06 AM

Oh boy. First of all, it was stated that criminalizing online poker was a blatant abuse of power. Well, the only way of abusing power is by taking more of it. However, it is quite explicitly stated in the CONSTITUTION that Congress has control of interstate commerce. So what you must mean is that it is blatant that Congress is using there power, not abusing. Second, excon, do claim your winnings on your income taxes? Didn't think so, and neither does anyone else. So those that win a lot of money doing online poker are not just felons for gambling, but they evade taxes. You know, Kenneth Lay of Enron wasn't such a "bad guy" as you said, either, he just tried to cheat the system. Yet he was stilll a concivted felon. Third, online gambling cannot be regulated as easily as you said. You can't just tax people online because the government cannot access your financial records without consent. In other words, any moneys you win through online gambling cannot be traced to you without a search warrant. Also, it would be extremely costly to even try and regulate anything online. That is made obvious with Child Pornography. THe government has great difficulty restricting it and finding those who distribute it. If we lived in a society where civil liberties were worthless, then it would be easy, however that is not the case. So, you are right, your neighbor and yourself (since you admitted to do online poker) are felons.

talaniman · Oct 8, 2006, 06:09 AM

How about we vote and not just 20% of the voting poulation and get rid of some of these guys who don't have a clue what the American people want?

SSchultz0956 · Oct 9, 2006, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

How about we vote and not just 20% of the voting poulation and get rid of some of these guys who don't have a clue what the American people want?

Well, you already have 5 vote, just a few more to go.

LUNAGODDESS · Oct 9, 2006, 11:07 AM

It Is None Of Anyone Business If A Fomer Criminal Lives Next Door To Me... if A Former Criminal Pays Its Due To Society.. society Should Forgive Them And Let Them Start A New... so Idealist Of Me... but If A Sex Offender.. I Would Have Reservation About Their Attention...

SSchultz0956 · Oct 9, 2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by LUNAGODDESS

It Is None Of Anyone Business If A Fomer Criminal Lives Next Door To Me...if A Former Criminal Pays Its Due To Society..society Should Forgive Them And Let Them Start A New...so Idealist Of Me...but If A Sex Offender..i Would Have Reservation About Their Attention...

I don't think this is the issue of the thread in any possible way.

bhayne · Oct 11, 2006, 08:58 AM

Maybe on-line poker, like many on-line businesses cannot be regulated by the government. Maybe on-line poker is funding terrorist groups. Who knows?

If you knew that on-line poker was contributing to building a WMD to be used against you, would you still do it or would you try to stop it?

After all, terrorists cannot open a superstore in the middle of NYC with the slogan, 'save now, pay later'. So how do you suppose they raise that green? (illegally with a legal front).

talaniman · Oct 12, 2006, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by bhayne

Maybe on-line poker, like many on-line businesses cannot be regulated by the government. Maybe on-line poker is funding terrorist groups. Who knows?

If you knew that on-line poker was contributing to building a WMD to be used against you, would you still do it or would you try to stop it?

After all, terrorists cannot open a superstore in the middle of NYC with the slogan, 'save now, pay later'. So how do you suppose they raise that green? (illegally with a legal front).

OIL and POPPY SEEDS

excon · Oct 12, 2006, 08:14 AM

Hello again:

Some right-wingers TRUST the government SO MUCH, that they believe what the government does (in our name), ISN'T our business.

What??

Actually, that isn't an AMERICAN philosophy at all. Checks and balances, dissent, distrust, transparency, civilian oversight, and FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, ARE American traits.

To blindly TRUST the government, is more of a "Cut and Run" philosophy. That is, if we really want to call a spade, a spade.

excon

bhayne · Oct 12, 2006, 09:24 AM

I wouldn't blindly trust the government either; heck, I didn't vote for them...

But over 50% of my neighbors did. So I either live with it (because that's Democracy) or bash over 50% of the population (which makes me the fool).

I'll chose the former. It is still roses compared to places where there is no Democracy!

Someone behind the stearing wheel must know how to drive. That doesn't mean they tell you when they are accellerating and braking all the time!

talaniman · Oct 12, 2006, 11:21 AM

Someone behind the stearing wheel must know how to drive

Yeah but do they know where they're going? If they do, do you want to go with them?

bhayne · Oct 12, 2006, 12:58 PM

The main objective of any government is to keep their job. Once you get past the sexual preditors, the palm greasing and the personal agenda and put that behind you, the road ahead looks good.

Name me a government that doesn't have issues (lest we forget Clinton and his sexual appetite) and I'll show you a pig that flys!

I'm Canadian and I am picking on the US but that's because most US citizens are not familiar with all the Canadian scandles. Heck, we had one priminister that publicly admitted after the election that a 'good politician' is one that keeps 75% of their promisses. Unfortunately, he couldn't even maintain his own standing of a 'good politician'.

SSchultz0956 · Oct 12, 2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again:

Some right-wingers TRUST the government SO MUCH, that they believe what the government does (in our name), ISN'T our business.

What???

Actually, that isn't an AMERICAN philosophy at all. Checks and balances, dissent, distrust, transparency, civilian oversight, and FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, ARE American traits.

To blindly TRUST the government, is more of a "Cut and Run" philosophy. That is, if we really want to call a spade, a spade.

excon

There are some things that are not our business, very few. For example, the things the NYTimes has posted about tracking terrorists. There were checks and balances already in place to keep their tracking bank accounts from being abused. I didn't need to know about it in order to have be kept in balance. However, yes, I agree that there are very few things that the gv't should keep from us. However, complete disclosure can be just as damaging as keeping everything from us.

Northwind_Dagas · Oct 12, 2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by SSchultz0956

However, complete disclosure can be just as damaging as keeping everything from us.

Ah, but who gets to decide what is disclosed and what isn't? How do you know you can trust them? Anything other than full disclosure leaves the door open for action outside of our best interests.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
(Who will guard the guardians?)