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Joey G · Nov 30, 2008, 09:44 PM

I have a 91 Toyota PU, 4 wheel drive, manual transmission with 143,000 miles. Occasionally, I would have difficulty in shifting to first gear and also when I shift to reverse there is a momentary grind, which sometimes goes away by pressing on the clutch in two succession. I have checked the master and slave cylinder and there are no leaks. I changed the transmission gear oil as well as the differential oil. I also note that there is a slight freeplay on the clutch. I have not had the clutch replaced since I bought the truck in 1991. Does anyone have any idea what could be the problem. I dare to guess that the clutch plates are worn out. Also, how much do those jobs cost in general? Thank you.

KISS · Nov 30, 2008, 10:12 PM

There is all sorts of ways clutches fail and that's one of them. Clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing and pilot bearing.

When it's real bad, you might have to stop the engine to get it in reverse and/or first gear. Annoying.

kitch428 · Nov 30, 2008, 10:53 PM

I would say it's time to start planning for a new clutch. When the job is done that KISS mentioned, also replace the shift lever bushing, and the bushing below that in the shifter top plate.
2 very inexpensive items that will give a much better 'feel' and stop those issues you mentioned.
I will check on pricing 4 you

kitch428 · Dec 1, 2008, 04:40 PM

About 1100.00 at the dealer.

robthegamer · Dec 1, 2008, 06:17 PM

I'd check aftermarket on the clutch and depending on brand that you use whether it's a Rhinopac or Centerforce or any other aftermarket clutch they can come with pressure plate, disc, pilot bearing and a plastic install tool that helps to guide it in. If you need a price check just let me know. I have connections as well.

Russvr · Dec 2, 2008, 07:37 PM

I wouldn't be so quick to suspect the clutch. Check the external things first. It sounds like the clutch won't disengage because it grinds in reverse and won't go into 1st gear. If the clutch was worn out, the clutch wouldn't engage and would slip but would still shift into gear easy. First bleed the slave cylinder it could have an air bubble in it. Make sure the pedal height is the right distance from the floor. If the pedal is too close to the floor when all the way up it won't have enough stroke to fully disengage the clutch. These things are also famous for internal leakage in the clutch master cylinder which is easy to change but will cost a few bucks. By the way - if you put an oil in the transmission that was heavier than was recommended you will have these symptoms when the oil is cold. Keep us informed.

Joey G · Dec 3, 2008, 06:20 AM

RussVr,
Thank you. I did check the master and slave cylinders and there was no leaks. The latter was changed a couple of years ago. I also bled the slave cylinder and there was no air. Seems like the clutch pedal is lower than the brake pedal though. Are they supposed to be at the same height? In my readings, something was mentioned that if a vehicle is old, it is worthwhile replacing both the master and slave cylinder despite the absence of a leak. Would you recommend that? Joey

KISS · Dec 3, 2008, 07:03 AM

Master and slave are usually external, so it's an easy fix.

As I said, not going into reverse can be a clutch problem based on experience. It's just one of a possible number of failure modes.

Remember to replace the rear main seal at this miliage.

Russvr · Dec 3, 2008, 05:57 PM

Joey G
It is more common for the master cylinder to give problems. Here is a quick check: With everything warmed up to operating temperature press the clutch to the floor. Now work it back and forth about an inch a few times (6 or 7) If you can feel the pressure starting to dissipate from the clutch pedal you know there is a problem with the master cylinder. Also check the fluid, if it is quite dark it is contaminated with aluminum from the inside of the cylinder. I don't see the point in replacing both if it is not necessary. Also, if you want to check your clutch try this: Apply your emergency brake, put the transmission in 2nd gear, rev the engine up a little (1500 rpm), let the clutch out briskly but don't pop it. If the engine dies there is nothing wrong with the clutch. If it dies quite slow or not at all the clutch is worn out, but that still does not explain why it will not go into 1st or grinds into reverse. I may be wrong (and I'm quite confident I'm not) but I still maintain that all other possibilities need to be checked before you go through the expense of a clutch change. Please exercise caution when performing any tests. SAFETY FIRST! I'll be waiting to hear how you made out.

Russvr · Dec 3, 2008, 07:18 PM

I forgot to mention that the proper clutch pedal height is 6.5 to 7 inches from the floor, measured at the bottom of the pedal. Read on for complete clutch adjustment specs:

Step1 - Check the pedal height of the Toyota Tacoma's clutch before adjusting it. The proper factory specs are 170 to 180mm (or 6.69 to 7.08 inches) from the floor to the top of the pedal (where you step). You can adjust this up or down as long as the pedal height remains within the specified guidelines. Look at the top of the clutch pedal for the adjuster knob.

Step2 - Change the freeplay of the clutch pedal in your Toyota Tacoma by loosening the lock nut and turning the push rod until you are able to get it into the recommended range of 5 to 15mm. Tighten the nut, and readjust the pedal height if necessary.

Step3 - Find out what the release point is of the Toyota Tacoma's clutch. If it is not within the necessary specs, you may have to adjust it. Begin by pulling on the lever of the parking brake and installing a "wheel stopper."

Step4 - Start your Tacoma's engine, let it idle, and then slowly shift your truck into reverse. When you feel the gears begin to connect, press down on the clutch and check the distance between when the noise of the gear stops and the point where you've stepped on the pedal all the way. The release point, as it's called, should be at least 1 inch.

Step5 -Double-check everything if the release point is not where it should be. Check the pedal height again, check the play in the push rod and the pedal, bleed the clutch lines to rid the system of any air bubbles, and also check the clutch cover and the disc as well. Make the necessary adjustments, replace any components that you can't adjust, and test the release point of the Tacoma's clutch again.

kitch428 · Dec 3, 2008, 08:01 PM

"but that still does not explain why it will not go into 1st or grinds into reverse."

Go back and look at my previous post about the shifter bushings. This will fix harsh engagement in first and third. Help 'some' on the reverse.
Fantastic results for about 25$ and an hour of your time.
I've fixed dozens and dozens of 4x4 and 2x4 trucks.
On the other matter, he may not need a new clutch yet, but it doesn't hide the fact this has 143K on it and original.

kitch428 · Dec 5, 2008, 04:49 PM

Whatever.

BTW, step 4 of your post, It's not a Tacoma, It's a 91 Toyota pick up. Difference.

You seem like a smart person, but to be honest, anyone can cut and paste. Experience is priceless.

You should build up your profile here at AMHD, and show everyone your achievements :)

Russvr · Dec 5, 2008, 05:36 PM

Sorry Kitch. I was aware of the discrepency but the principles are the same. I apologize if I offended anyone. Just trying to help. I have lots of experience too. I gracefully and humbly bow out.