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    orange's Avatar
    orange Posts: 1,364, Reputation: 197
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    #1

    Jun 30, 2006, 06:33 PM
    Wal-Mart Documentary
    Has anyone seen the documentary about Wal-Mart entitled "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price"? I just saw it last night and I was quite disturbed by what was presented, if in fact the documentary presents accurate facts and data. The movie concentrated more on American Wal-Mart, though; I think Wal-Mart in Canada is slightly different, especially since we have free health care, and so providing health insurance for employees is not a concern here.

    Anyway, just curious if anyone has seen it, and if so, what did you think? If you haven't seen it, the main points touched upon were:

    Wal-Mart's lack of good medical insurance for even their full-time employees;
    The way they come into a town and destroy all the small businesses;
    The sweatshops they operate in China and Bangladesh;
    The sexism and racism in certain Wal-Marts;
    The violent crime in Wal-Mart parking lots;
    Their aggressive anti-union policies;
    Their stance on environmental issues.

    Watching it makes me want to stop shopping there, although their prices are very good on a budget!
    valinors_sorrow's Avatar
    valinors_sorrow Posts: 2,927, Reputation: 653
    I regard all beings mostly by their consciousness and little else
     
    #2

    Jun 30, 2006, 08:13 PM
    I stopped shopping at Walmart long before that documentary (I saw it maybe last year?) suggested the things I saw with my own eyes. Besides what is listed in that documentary, they are terrible to truckers and so trucker wives tend to not shop there. I have voted with my dollars for a long time now. I wish more Americans would do likewise.

    I use Target instead; they seem to have a better fit to the community here, a better product line and the prices aren't that much higher. Or I purposefully seek out the mom-n-pop places... I live in a small enough town to still have some of those wonderful joints. Municipalty governments can be sooo incredibly short-sighted.

    Have you seen Walmarts Superstores, ugh! And their grocery store line? If not, its coming to a town near you...

    Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated! :eek:
    orange's Avatar
    orange Posts: 1,364, Reputation: 197
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    #3

    Jul 1, 2006, 09:05 AM
    Thanks Val. We don't have Target stores in Canada... at least, I've never seen one, although I've seen the commercials for them on American TV. I'm actually not shopping at Wal-Mart as much either lately, since they moved out of the mall last year. They used to be in a convenient area of town, as part of a large mall. But then last year they moved and built a new bigger store (by themselves) on the edge of town. The mall they left has really suffered financially as a result. The new store has groceries as you mentioned, but it's inconvenient to get to... there's not even good bus service out there. I mostly go to the Real Canadian Superstore now for groceries, and Zellers Or Sears for other stuff. Unfortunately we don't really have a lot of mom and pop type stores here, at least not for essentials. I do like frequenting small businesses to buy books and other specialty items, though. And I love second hand stores for clothing!
    J_9's Avatar
    J_9 Posts: 40,298, Reputation: 5646
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    #4

    Jul 1, 2006, 09:06 AM
    Mom, you mention Target. Tell me if it is ture that they will not let the girl scouts sell cookies there, the Salvation Army collect money for the poor, as well as not supporting our country. I have heard these things and have seen it here in my town but am wondering if this is all just hype.

    Does anyone have the facts on Target?

    I shop at Wal-Mart only because I am on a nursing student's budget and because there is literally nothing else around me. We have Kroger and Wal-Mart and that is all within 50 miles.

    In Michigan there is Meijer, I prefer to shop there, prices are better, stores are cleaner, but we don't have that here... yet. I can only hope.
    orange's Avatar
    orange Posts: 1,364, Reputation: 197
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    #5

    Jul 1, 2006, 09:17 AM
    Yeah someone else on the site was talking about Target too Janine... about them not allowing the Salvation Army drums. Since we don't have Target here in Canada I can't comment, but I've never heard of anyone turning down the SA here. It sounds kind of ridiculous.

    Cost is kind of a quandary of mine, too... the prices at Wal-Mart are really great, and there's not a lot of alternatives. Although, as I say, I'm shopping more at Superstore now for the sake of convenience. Superstore is a big grocery store that has a lot of essentials... toiletries, clothes, baby stuff, electronics, etc, and the prices are good. Plus I like the fact that it's a Canadian company.
    aqua@home's Avatar
    aqua@home Posts: 565, Reputation: 107
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    #6

    Jul 1, 2006, 02:23 PM
    LOL Val. They are terrible to truckers. My husband hates that store. Where's the customer service?


    Ugh... I don't like Zellers either. I think their stores are dirty, and the prices are just the same as The Bay or Sears without the quality. I prefer Sears, they have a great guarantee on kids clothes.
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #7

    Jul 13, 2006, 08:43 AM
    I have come to the conclusion that Walmart is getting bad press and slander because they are pushing the green agenda. They are putting millions into Bio fuel and that just does not sit well with the rest of Corporate America Government. I will continue to shop at Walmart until I am certain of the source of all this negative press. By the way, I see lots of truckers and their wives shopping there alonside the RVers that can stay in the Walmart parking lots for free. I do not want to judge anyone and hurt their business until I know ecactly what is really up.

    Here is all I can find on the good things Walmart does. Also, if you don't like working for Walmart, go to work for McDonalds! ;)

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    In a company known more for driving bargains than driving hybrids, I’m frequently asked about the impetus behind the global environmental sustainability programme we launched full-steam at Wal-Mart last year. Like most good stories, this one has evolved over time, involving a bit of personal discovery, organisational enthusiasm and the constant unfurling of the vision before us.

    We began talking about the environment among ourselves and with NGOs about 18 months ago. Truthfully, I didn’t see how much a retailer could do about the environment beyond recycling and thermostat control, and we had already been doing both. Moreover, Wal-Mart is already known for zealous efficiency: we waste very little in our quest to keep costs down for our customers.

    Fortunately, it didn’t take long for me to open my eyes to the enormous impact that our company can have on the environment. And it didn’t take much longer for my interest in the environment to grow into a full-blown passion. Environmental sustainability may well be the most important initiative we undertake at Wal-Mart this decade, maybe even this century. It will have huge impacts on the way things are made, farmed, packaged, transported, displayed and sold worldwide.

    The environmental advantages come straight from our size. As the world’s largest retailer, we’re in thousands of communities around the USA and 15 other countries. We buy products from more than 60,000 suppliers in 70 countries. We sell anywhere from 35,000 to 100,000 product lines in each of our 6,000-plus stores and clubs. We have 1.7
    Million associates serving more than 138 million customers every week.

    Our size and scale means that even one small proenvironment change in our policies or our customers’ habits has exponential impacts all over the world. Consider this: by reducing the size of the cardboard packaging on just one line of our own-brand toys last summer, we saved more than 5,000 trees and 1,300 barrels of oil that would have gone into making the packaging. We also reduced the amount of fuel needed to transport those products to our stores. We use millions of kilos of plastics in shrink-wrap that, until recently, we threw away. Recycling all our plastics at all our US stores (which we’ll be doing this year) will keep this plastic out of landfills. Increasing the fuel efficiency of our 7,000-truck fleet will keep tonnes of greenhouse gases out of the air by saving millions of litres of fuel.

    We’ve built environmental ‘laboratory’ stores in Texas and Colorado, using recycled asphalt, recycled oil for heating, wind and solar power, all innovations we will incorporate into future stores. We’ve committed to purchasing all our wildcaught fresh and frozen fish for the US market from Marine Stewardship Council-certified sources.

    We’re buying seven million kilos of organic cotton from Turkey and India, and additional supplies from China, Texas and elsewhere. This policy will keep millions of kilos of chemicals out of the environment. What’s more, we will make these organic products more affordable for consumers all around the world, thanks to our large-volume buying and distribution efficiencies. This means that families on a budget will be able to dress their children in organic cotton, and feed them organic vegetables and formula – all at a Wal-Mart price.

    These are just a few examples of what’s already under way. We are focused on three top-line goals: to be supplied with 100% renewable
    Energy, to create zero waste, and to sell products that sustain our resources and our environment. Those are ambitious goals, but we never think small at our company.
    kp2171's Avatar
    kp2171 Posts: 5,318, Reputation: 1612
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    #8

    Jul 13, 2006, 09:48 AM
    Capitalism good. In theory. Much of the time. But...

    While its impressive what they have done from a business model, I'm not a fan. They are top notch in streamlining, but their push for the lowest price strangles vendors and stymies product innovation outside of speeding up the supply chain.

    As the number one retailer in the u.s. and mexico, and their growing international presence, they have real power over vendors and are becoming movers in the political arena... something they stayed out of until sam waltons death.

    Now they have a huge political action committee (as many interest groups do), pressured congress on free trade, successfully lobbied to get exceptions to the central american free trade act, and is now partnering with china heavily.

    Granted, the us hasn't been untouchable in the manufacturing arena since the 50's. Since then taiwan, singapore, japan, and south korea all stepped up. When trade with china opened in the 90s WM was right there. They are the 5th leading trader with china... ahead of great britain and russia.

    The problem isn't an international presence. It is the push for lower cost running manufacturing jobs overseas. In 95 they had 6% direct imports, in 2004 40%. Wonder why they dropped the old "made in america" slogan?

    Unlike other companies like nike or gap they refuse to have their international sites independently audited. This leads to the opportunities for double book-keeping. A sad event when chinas workers are already in a bad place.

    Target gives three times amount to charity when you look at dollars given versus earned. WM says they give back through their low prices.

    The genreal shift from a manufacturing driven economy to a consumer driven ecomony is a bad thing. Its not WMs fault alone. But they are a huge player in the game. And anyone who absolutely loves them has never been a part of a manufacturing business or vendor. Unless you simply like getting the life choked out of you until WM decides to move the business to bangledesh, where 50% of the pop is in poverty.

    OK... enough ranting. I could go on and on.
    Cassie's Avatar
    Cassie Posts: 150, Reputation: 46
    Junior Member
     
    #9

    Jul 13, 2006, 11:19 AM
    I cannot understand why Walmart has such a bad rap. ShopKo, Target, KMart are all basically the same. If I remember right Walmart was about the last big chain to start coming in some areas in the west. The mom and pop stores were already gone because of KMart. Walmart sells pretty much the same stuff as the other chain stores. Each store seems to have a brand they only sell. If you find it in all stores, Walmart is going to be cheaper. I am not aware of any of the other stores having insurance policies. Most of the places hire part time help so they do not qualify. They may say they offer insurance, but who actually qualifies for it. As far as sweat shops, the stuff comes from China and goes to all the businesses in corporate America. I am not aware of Walmart having their own name brand.
    I agree with Magpro, I did see something about Walmart promoting ethenol gas, that is a big no no for corporate America. If I find someone who is going to stand up to the oil companies with alternative resources, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
    Not that I agree with Walmart's policies, I just do not feel they are that much different than any other big corporation. The day of the mom and pop stores are gone, and I do miss them. They were so personable and I am glad I grew up in an era where everyone knew your name and when you were a kid and $1.00 short they would let you bring it in another day.
    Cassie's Avatar
    Cassie Posts: 150, Reputation: 46
    Junior Member
     
    #10

    Jul 13, 2006, 11:50 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by magprob
    I have come to the conclusion that Walmart is getting bad press and slander due to the fact that they are pushing the green agenda. They are putting millions into Bio fuel and that just does not sit well with the rest of Corporate America Government. I will continue to shop at Walmart untill I am certain of the source of all this negative press. By the way, I see lots of truckers and their wives shopping there alonside the RVers that can stay in the Walmart parking lots for free. I do not want to judge anyone and hurt their business untill I know ecactly what is really up.

    Here is all I can find on the good things Walmart does. Also, if you don't like working for Walmart, go to work for McDonalds! ;)
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    In a company known more for driving bargains than driving hybrids, I’m frequently asked about the impetus behind the global environmental sustainability programme we launched full-steam at Wal-Mart last year. Like most good stories, this one has evolved over time, involving a bit of personal discovery, organisational enthusiasm and the constant unfurling of the vision before us.

    We began talking about the environment among ourselves and with NGOs about 18 months ago. Truthfully, I didn’t see how much a retailer could do about the environment beyond recycling and thermostat control, and we had already been doing both. Moreover, Wal-Mart is already known for zealous efficiency: we waste very little in our quest to keep costs down for our customers.

    Fortunately, it didn’t take long for me to open my eyes to the enormous impact that our company can have on the environment. And it didn’t take much longer for my interest in the environment to grow into a full-blown passion. Environmental sustainability may well be the most important initiative we undertake at Wal-Mart this decade, maybe even this century. It will have huge impacts on the way things are made, farmed, packaged, transported, displayed and sold worldwide.

    The environmental advantages come straight from our size. As the world’s largest retailer, we’re in thousands of communities around the USA and 15 other countries. We buy products from more than 60,000 suppliers in 70 countries. We sell anywhere from 35,000 to 100,000 product lines in each of our 6,000-plus stores and clubs. We have 1.7
    million associates serving more than 138 million customers every week.

    Our size and scale means that even one small proenvironment change in our policies or our customers’ habits has exponential impacts all over the world. Consider this: by reducing the size of the cardboard packaging on just one line of our own-brand toys last summer, we saved more than 5,000 trees and 1,300 barrels of oil that would have gone into making the packaging. We also reduced the amount of fuel needed to transport those products to our stores. We use millions of kilos of plastics in shrink-wrap that, until recently, we threw away. Recycling all our plastics at all our US stores (which we’ll be doing this year) will keep this plastic out of landfills. Increasing the fuel efficiency of our 7,000-truck fleet will keep tonnes of greenhouse gases out of the air by saving millions of litres of fuel.

    We’ve built environmental ‘laboratory’ stores in Texas and Colorado, using recycled asphalt, recycled oil for heating, wind and solar power, all innovations we will incorporate into future stores. We’ve committed to purchasing all our wildcaught fresh and frozen fish for the US market from Marine Stewardship Council-certified sources.

    We’re buying seven million kilos of organic cotton from Turkey and India, and additional supplies from China, Texas and elsewhere. This policy will keep millions of kilos of chemicals out of the environment. What’s more, we will make these organic products more affordable for consumers all around the world, thanks to our large-volume buying and distribution efficiencies. This means that families on a budget will be able to dress their children in organic cotton, and feed them organic vegetables and formula – all at a Wal-Mart price.

    These are just a few examples of what’s already under way. We are focused on three top-line goals: to be supplied with 100% renewable
    energy, to create zero waste, and to sell products that sustain our resources and our environment. Those are ambitious goals, but we never think small at our company.
    You did your homework on this one. I am pleased to see this. Thank you
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #11

    Jul 13, 2006, 01:17 PM
    Comment on Cassie's post
    No, Thank you for having an open mind and not believing everything the Corporate America Owned media wants you to!
    jduke44's Avatar
    jduke44 Posts: 407, Reputation: 44
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    #12

    Jul 13, 2006, 02:08 PM
    I shop at Target more than Walmart for one reason and one reason only. Target is much more cleaner than Walmart. I actually get depressed after leaving Walmart because it doesn't seem like they pick up there aisles. The floors are usually disgusting. I do shop at the superstores when I get a chance because they do have good prices. I don't get caught up on whether a certain store does or doesn't do because honestly, I don't have the time to research all this stuff and besides, how do I know whether it is true.

    One note I will add: Target doesn't allow Salvation Army or girl scouts because they don't feel they want their customers to feel like they are being bombarded by having to give money. I haven't actually asked any management but that is what I hear.

    I will be honest, I worked part time for Target for a short time and I would do it again. They are very good to their employees as long as you put your very best in.
    CaptainForest's Avatar
    CaptainForest Posts: 3,645, Reputation: 393
    Ultra Member
     
    #13

    Jul 13, 2006, 06:29 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    Has anyone seen the documentary about Wal-Mart entitled "Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low Price"?
    While I haven’t seen the documentary, I have heard about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    Wal-Mart's lack of good medical insurance for even their full-time employees;
    As a Canadian, I probably am not quite qualified to comment on this, but, when has that ever stopped me in the past?

    I say, if they don’t want to offer good medical insurance, then they don’t have to. If the employees of Walmart don’t like it, they can get another job. Medical insurance is not an absolute, even if perhaps it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    The way they come into a town and destroy all the small businesses;
    I agree. That is sad. They really shouldn’t be allowed to do that.

    More needs to be done to prevent them from doing this.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    The sweatshops they operate in China and Bangladesh;
    So what?

    They aren’t the first.

    Nike has been doing the same for years.

    As well as countless of other companies too.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    The sexism and racism in certain Wal-Marts;
    I have never heard about any of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    The violent crime in Wal-Mart parking lots;
    Again, I have never heard of any of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    Their aggressive anti-union policies;
    I say give them a medal!

    Unions are one of the lowest scum’s of the earth. While there was a legitimate need for them 100 years ago, there is not much of a need for them today.

    The main reason unions exist today is simply to get its employees more money.

    Why would a company want a headache in the form of a union, who threatens to strike, over money?

    I would do the same thing if I was in Walmart’s shoes.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    Their stance on environmental issues.
    I assume it is a bad one?

    The only thing I have heard about Walmart and the environment is that they wanted to build some kind of “Green Walmart” in Vancouver, BC, Canada, but the city of Vancouver councillors shut down the idea (although the mayor was in support of it). This was a couple of years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    Watching it makes me want to stop shopping there, although their prices are very good on a budget!
    Yes, many big companies make me not want to shop there from one stupid policy to the next.

    But, the low prices make it attractive.

    Kind of how like some men become very attractive only because of their money (saw an old episode of Law & Order on TV earlier today).


    Quote Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow
    Have you seen Walmarts Superstores, ugh!! And their grocery store line? If not, its coming to a town near you...
    I have indeed. The first time I saw one was when I was in the USA.

    WOW

    And I thought Walmart was big before that…..

    Quote Originally Posted by jduke44
    I shop at Target more than Walmart for one reason and one reason only. Target is much more cleaner than Walmart. I actually get depressed after leaving Walmart because it doesn't seem like they pick up there aisles.
    Really?

    Perhaps it is just your area? The Walmart’s in my area are always clean…

    Quote Originally Posted by jduke44
    One note I will add: Target doesn't allow Salvation Army or girl scouts because they don't feel they want their customers to feel like they are being bombarded by having to give money. I haven't actually asked any management but that is what I hear.
    Good point. Target does have a point. The last thing I want to do is to be bombarded by people asking for money.

    But, perhaps there is a corner they could set them up in away from most customers, so customers have to come to them, and not the other way around?
    jduke44's Avatar
    jduke44 Posts: 407, Reputation: 44
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    #14

    Jul 13, 2006, 07:20 PM
    Comment on CaptainForest's post
    Good points.
    jduke44's Avatar
    jduke44 Posts: 407, Reputation: 44
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    #15

    Jul 13, 2006, 07:31 PM
    Really?

    Perhaps it is just your area? The Walmart's in my area are always clean
    It might be my area. I live in one of the biggest towns in the USA that most of it is usually upscal. I am not trying to sound snobbish. It seems they are clean in the beginning but when they are around for awhile it gets lacks. I am nit saying they don't clean they're floors but compares to Target who cleans them every night, there is no comaprison. But I am not here to tell anyone not to shop someone.
    orange's Avatar
    orange Posts: 1,364, Reputation: 197
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    #16

    Jul 13, 2006, 11:15 PM
    Wow thanks for the all the input everyone! I hope I can finish all my commenting before some random kid wakes up or cries or wants water or something! ;)

    Jduke, our Wal-Mart is very clean. But then it's also only about a year old. I remember the older Wal-Mart being clean though too. But that could be a regional thing... the city I live in has a lot of by-laws about eyesores, health regulations, etc, so people are used to very clean buildings.

    CaptainForest, the point the movie made about foreign sweatshops was that since Wal-Mart is now one of the leading companies in the world, they set a precedence about how sweatshop workers are treated. I don't know if it's true or not, but the movie claimed that Wal-Mart treated sweatshop workers worse than they had been treated in the past, and that other companies are now taking Wal-Mart's lead and treating their foreign workers worse. Like for example, in China, making them work 7 days a week when they are only supposed to be working 6 according to Chinese law. In the movie, workers were interviewed and said that they were threatened with punishment or firing if they told Chinese government inspectors that they worked 7 days a week. So essentially they were told by Wal-Mart to lie to the government inspectors.

    Ooops. Damn. Got to go. I will finishing commenting another time when I don't have needy kids! :p
    kp2171's Avatar
    kp2171 Posts: 5,318, Reputation: 1612
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    #17

    Jul 14, 2006, 07:15 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by orange

    Ooops. Damn. Gotta go. I will finishing commenting another time when I don't have needy kids!! :p
    See you in about 25 years.

    ;)
    RickJ's Avatar
    RickJ Posts: 7,762, Reputation: 864
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    #18

    Jul 14, 2006, 09:18 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by orange
    the main points touched upon were:

    1. Wal-Mart's lack of good medical insurance for even their full-time employees;
    2. The way they come into a town and destroy all the small businesses;
    3. The sweatshops they operate in China and Bangladesh;
    4. The sexism and racism in certain Wal-Marts;
    5. The violent crime in Wal-Mart parking lots;
    6. Their aggressive anti-union policies;
    7. Their stance on environmental issues.
    1. This is simply not true... at least around here. I know several WalMart employees who say the benefits are tops.
    2. A huge exaggeration. Yes, it has happened but why blame WalMart? The city could simply not issue them a permit to build it.
    3. I've heard rants on both sides over this. Isn't it illegal for American companies to operate sweatshops overseas? If so - and the atrocities are true - then law enforcement should enforce the laws.
    4. Baloney in my opinion. I've never seen it.
    5. Any more than in big store parking lots in general? What, are they saying WalMart encourages it or ignores it?
    6. Good for them!
    7. I've never heard of a bad/poor/unethical stance on environmental issues.

    Bottom line in my opinion: The bigger the target, the more pot shots will be taken at it... just like happens with Microsoft, the Catholic Church, etc...

    Now, that all said: I'm not blind and I don't think that every WalMart executive and decision maker is a saint... There probably is some grain of truth to the origin of the above complaints - but in a show designed to tell the world how evil the company is is not a good place to learn the truth of it all.
    Cassie's Avatar
    Cassie Posts: 150, Reputation: 46
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    #19

    Jul 14, 2006, 09:45 AM
    I have a friend that is having some of her product made in China. The way it works for her is (A long and difficult process) she goes to China, is given an interpreter that goes everywhere with her outside of the motel she stays at. She goes to the industrial section where her product is being made, there are several companies in that particular section. She is NOT allowed to go into the other industrial sections. She has nothing to do with the workers, she only meets with certain people. She does not go into the actual factories. She has no say whatsoever as to how the workers are treated or how long of hours they work. That is all up to the Chinese. The gov't officials keep a very tight hold on everything that goes on in China. They have all say in all that is done there, they profit from the US purchasing their products. Some of the companies she was able to see there have high end products. Such as purchasing a Gucci bag for $15.00 Boy is there a mark up on that one by the time we see the price tag. Swarovski crystals were another one in that same district. Companies you would never believe are using Chinese labor. It is so wrong to just target Walmart. It truly makes me wonder why they are the only one being targeted. Is it corporate America and they are bucking the system? As I said before anyone that is going to go up against the oil companies has my vote, and that could very well be why they are being targeted among other things. It would be very interesting to really know the answers.
    orange's Avatar
    orange Posts: 1,364, Reputation: 197
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    #20

    Jul 14, 2006, 12:22 PM
    Thanks for all the great points and opinions on both sides, guys. I don't have time to comment on everything right now (hopefully tonight!), but everything that's been said makes me all the more interested in the subject. Does anyone know of an unbiased source where I could read more about Wal-Mart?

    I have to confess, I bought cat and dog food at Wal-Mart yesterday. It was just so much cheaper than everywhere else. Lately pet food has really increased in price, not sure why!? Anyway thanks again everyone and I will try to come back here tonight!

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