[Tj3]

Tj3,

I am willing to give Cred the oportunity to prove that he does indeed follow this golden rule and that he doesn't hate anyone.

Agreed. I would love to see him follow the golden rule, aned to prove us wrong!

[NeedKarma]

I have yet to see a single post dealing with Christianity where you have not been abusive with respect to Christianity and Christians - one need only look at your posts in this thread.

Speaking of the content of this thread, will you admit you are wrong?

[Tj3]

Speaking of the content of this thread, will you admit you are wrong?

Perhaps you can tell me precisely what you want me to admit that I am wrong about.

Making some vague undefined statement and question gives me no reason to make such a statement.

[NeedKarma]

Perhaps you can tell me precisely what you want me to admit that I am wrong about.

Making some vague undefined statement and question gives me no reason to make such a statement.

This:

The Golden Rule comes from the Bible, and it is not and certainly never has been a standard by which atheists live.....

[michealb]

There seems to be a major misunderstanding about what is good individual. When groups of animals live together the entire dynamic changes. It is no longer kill the other guy before he kills me. It becomes how can I help the other guy so when I need help he helps me.

For example if we were solitary animals it would be good for me to kill all other male rivals, however in a society it become detrimental to me to kill my rivals because if I do they will group up and remove me from the society and if you haven't noticed removal from the group for humans means death.

By weeding out the ones that don't play nice in groups over the last 500,000 years we have a good percentage of the human population that has empathy for others and generally want to be part of the group and do good for that group. Does it mean everyone? No you will always have one offs and people that feel they are excluded from the group so they don't feel like owe the group anything or feel like they belong to a different group than the one they harmed.

It is this group dynamic that is the origin for the golden rule.

[Tj3]

There seems to be a major misunderstanding about what is good individual. When groups of animals live together the entire dynamic changes. It is no longer kill the other guy before he kills me. It becomes how can I help the other guy so when I need help he helps me.

Really? How then would you say that this works in real life in a small hamlet versus the inner core of a large city?

[Tj3]

This:

This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
The Golden Rule comes from the Bible, and it is not and certainly never has been a standard by which atheists live...

[/I]

And you want me to admit that I am wrong why?

[NeedKarma]

And you want me to admit that I am wrong why?

Read the thread. The evidence is there.

[Tj3]

Read the thread. The evidence is there.

Really? Evidence of what? If you have something to say, don't beat around the bush - you are wasting my time, yours and that of others who have to put up with this back and forth.

[michealb]

Really? How then would you say that this works in real life in a small hamlet versus the inner core of a large city?

I would say it works much better in small hamlets versus the inner core of a large city. Crime rates alone would tell you that. The reason is because in small hamlets you get a much stronger group dynamic than you do in a large city. In the small hamlet you know everyone by name or at least association and there for consider them part of your group. However in large cities an individual might have a much larger group that they consider themselves a part of but they don't have the processing power to know everyone in the city and consider them part of the group. It's why you see when people are left to there own devices they group up into gangs in cities. It's why in very backward areas even where there aren't a lot of people you see people organize themselves in to tribes and even in very violent tribal areas the violence within a tribe is minimal compared to the violence against other tribes.

As I said we are far from perfect so this doesn't always work but for the most part you can trust the people in your group to not to harm you because of this. Whether they be Hindu, Jewish, Christian, atheist or the people you bowl with. It doesn't matter why you consider them your group as long as they do to.

[NeedKarma]

No time is wasted for anyone, it's a short thread. What are you getting all mad about?

[spitvenom]

NK you never waste my time. When you get down to it isn't the golden rule basically Karma?

[NeedKarma]

Karma is originally an Indian concept that has been popularized in the west but I agree. It touches on the same basic issues - their actions and the effects of their actions.

[DrJ]

No one can claim that the Golden Rule is a Christian thing... all they can say is that is it a Christian thing, too.

Every religion, philosophy, way of life touches on the same concept.

All this bickering is out of control.

I don't have a hatred for Christians... I was raised by them. But there is a large section of them that emulate my latest quote (see below). It is ridiculous...

As for Cred, I think he is just fed up... as many of us are. I would probably still consider myself a Christian today if I wasn't exposed to the ugliness that SO many Christians posses in their heart while they preach songs of Love.

If any of you self-proclaimed up-standing Christians stepped back from your own "Glory" for a minute and actually looked at yourself, you would see it, too... that is, if you actually had the courage to.

(I say self-proclaimed because I have also witnessed a handful of real Christians on this site and I do not want to include them in this)

[classyT]

I don't think so. I think our nature is to be social animals and the ethic of reciprocity allows healthy communal living. No doubt there are individuals that are selfish and self-centered but I don't think that's the norm.

OK... yes there are times when we in the flesh or in our natural state without GOD will get along and try to use the "golden rule" because it is good. But not always NK. There have been times when I TOO am guilty of not always turning the other cheek. Im not suggesting that Christians are the only ones that can follow the golden rule.. just that it isn't always EASY. Sometimes it goes against are grain. And certainly it is hard to say we are sorry to someone when we are wrong... and that too is part of the Golden RULE... doing unto others... am I right or am I right... CRED? Nothing like humbling ourselves when we are wrong and I think it isn't always EASY.

[classyT]

The golden rules was wellknown long before the first letter was ever started on the first Bible chapter.
The reality is that the golden rules comes not from the bible. The bible just accepted it as a valid and sound way of life guideline.
The golden rule is NOT some form of property of Christianity.
Atheists have - just as all other people - used the golden rule to live a proper , prosperous, and safe life.
Atheists did not abuse the golden rule for their own views. Many christians however abused - and still abuse - the golden rule to support their own religious delusions.

Believe whatever you prefer, but at least accept that others may have different views !
Why can't so many "christians" show more respect for other world views, and drop all their apparent feelings of hatred and revenge?


:)

.

.

Cred,

Truth? Until you apologize to me... this entire thread is really silly. You don't make your point and your crediability is seriously lacking, nill, nadda the big ZERO. It is simply PROJECTION. Man up... nothing like humble pie for Thanksgiving... :D

[classyT]

No time is wasted for anyone, it's a short thread. What are you getting all mad about?

NK... who got mad? I have been accused in this thread of anger when in fact.. I find it somewhat funny and enternaining... ( I know I know... you think I am WEIRD):p

[classyT]

No one can claim that the Golden Rule is a Christian thing... all they can say is that is it a Christian thing, too.

Every religion, philosophy, way of life touches on the same concept.

All this bickering is out of control.

I dont have a hatred for Christians... I was raised by them. But there is a large section of them that emulate my latest quote (see below). It is ridiculous...

as for Cred, I think he is just fed up... as many of us are. I would probably still consider myself a Christian today if I wasn't exposed to the ugliness that SO many Christians posses in their heart while they preach songs of Love.

If any of you self-proclaimed up-standing Christians stepped back from your own "Glory" for a minute and actually looked at yourself, you would see it, too... that is, if you actually had the courage to.

(I say self-proclaimed because I have also witnessed a handful of real Christians on this site and I do not want to include them in this)

I don't know who is bickering.. and I DO look at myself. I am FLAWED to the HILT. All I can say to you is don't look at christians... we mess up all the time.. look at Jesus. Man will disappoint you every time.. even CHRISTIANS. Sad but true.

[DrJ]

I'm not here searching for Religion... or Faith.

And trust me, when I am searching, I am not looking to men.



But I LOVE this:

Man will disappoint you every time.. even CHRISTIANS.

:O NO WAY! Hahah

[Tj3]

I would say it works much better in small hamlets versus the inner core of a large city. Crime rates alone would tell you that. The reason is because in small hamlets you get a much stronger group dynamic than you do in a large city.

Exactly, and thus in practice the reality is the opposite of your theory.