[Alty]

I was actually going to stay away from the religious discussions board, it was starting to give me an ulcer ;), but I've met so many kind caring people there that I decided to start my own thread.

Why can't people of different faiths, different beliefs, accept one another?

I used to be a Christian but now I'm a Deist. I believe in God but not church, not organized religion and not the bible.

I've been told that becaue of my beliefs that I don't believe in the same God as Christians do, and therefore I won't go to heaven.

My belief is that anyone who lives a good, honest, decent life, regardless of their beliefs, will go to heaven (if heaven even exists).

I have no problem discussing religion with anyone of any faith. I find science fascinating, even though I don't have a good enough grasp on it to use it as an argument for any particular belief. I would like to learn more about others beliefs. I don't wish to convert, I'm happy with my beliefs, I would just like the opportunity to learn about others beliefs without being talked down to about my own.

So, what do you believe, why? Where you raised with your beliefs or did you decide for yourself later on in life? If you changed beliefs, why, what changed your mind? Have you ever been curious of others beliefs? Are you still searching?

I really would like to have a nice discussion about this. Everyone is welcome here, but let's respect eachothers beliefs, eachothers way of life. If you are here solely to convince people to follow your beliefs, then please don't join in the discussion, I don't want this to turn into a fight.

I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

Alty :)

[cogs]

I used to love occult stuff, as I was young, and didn't know what 'occult' was, so just read some books about aliens, pyramids, hypnosis, out of body experiences, ancient archaeology. I found them interesting, but they didn't resonate with my internal turmoil (and how to escape). Also, they didn't have a predictable pattern that led to any meaning.
so when my life turned so desperate, I clung to what I knew as a child, god. As I studied the bible and prayed, more and more a pattern developed of freedom from the effects of sin. I'm not converting anyone, just saying that the god in the bible made the most sense to the trouble in my life.
I think the reason christians want to convert others, is that they don't understand their own conversion, coming away from the sin in their heart. They want others to be as they think they are, on the train to heaven, away from hell.
others' conversion does come from a knowledge of god, but after that, it's up to god in their heart to draw them away from sin.

[Alty]

Thanks for sharing cogs. I respect your beliefs, and I'm glad that you found what works for you.

I grew up Lutheran, went to a Catholic school for 10 years and then, as an adult, became a Deist.

I don't go to church, I pray to God in my own home. I do talk to my children about God, and much of the information they receive is Christian in nature, God, Jesus, some things from the bible, but no directly. I answer their questions and always let them know that it's up to them to decide what's right in their lives.

If my children grow up to be Atheists, I'm okay with that, as long as it comes from within them. I want them to find their own way, and to be happy with whatever they choose.

[Fr_Chuck]

It is because of the passion of the belief and the actual teaching, for example in most Christianity and in Islam, you are the only right religion, and it is actually your mission in life to spread the faith. You view anyone else as doomed if they do not convert. So if they actually care for you, they don't want to see you doomed so they must for your own good convert you.

And of course within christianity, ( expcept for a couple groups that teach good works for salvation) good works is nice but is not what saves you, You can not do enough good since they believe in the evil nature of man, that needs some cleansing some salvation to be saved. So to the christian, if you don't include Jesus into your faith and belief, you are not saved.

[Alty]

I do understand that Chuck, but it's difficult to accept when you're constantly on the other end of it.

I'm happy with my beliefs, and I really do think that the God I believe in is the same God that Christians believe in, I just don't follow the same rituals as a Christian does.

I am a Deist, but if you look up the definition, I don't agree with everything to do with that religion, it's just the closest to my actual beliefs.

God is in my heart, to me that is enough. :)

[Galveston1]

First, let me say that I can and do accept you. That does not mean that I accept your beliefs as valid. It is wrong to even dislike someone because of a difference in belief.

Let me share a little of my history.

I can remember being in church and Sunday school when very young, but after we moved to another city, my parents dropped out of church. When I reached my early teen years, I was brought into contact with the "Pentecostal" beliefs in the following manner.

There was a large circus type tent, there was sawdust on the ground, and the first time I walked under that tent, I sensed something almost tangible in the atmosphere. I didn't know at the time what it was, but it was real.

I had been to various churches with my friends from time to time, but in none of them did I ever feel the almost electric presence of God.

A few months later, I went to the altar and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and a few months after that , I received the experience of being filled with the Holy Spirit, speaking in a language I never learned as the initial evidence of that experience.

I've never wanted to go back to anything before that experience, and that's been more than 50 years now.

[classyT]

Alty,

I agree with Galveston. I totally accept you and I like you. For me to reject anyone as a person just because they don't believe like I do is horrible and totally UN Christian. BUT like Galveston, I can't ever say to you " all paths lead to God so whatever path you want to take is just as good as the one i believe". I can't say that because I don't believe it! I believe what Jesus said.. he is the ONLY way. However, I respect your choice.

I became a Christian as a child. I have a personal relationship with Jesus and I KNOW him... I know he is real because he talks to me... ( OK, no I don't hear his voice) but he hears me. I can't go into all the unique ways he has answered me.. but I will let you know.. he has a very good sense of humor. He is as real to me as anyone I know. So NO I haven't ever questioned my faith. But since I have been chatting on AMHD and talked to several atheisist or other faiths.. I am understanding more where they are coming from. And WHY some of the Bible would seem like a fairytale or plain silly to them. So my eyes have been opened and I try to see their side and I hope I am becoming a better Christian because of it.

[Tj3]

Alty,

I agree with Galveston. I totally accept you and I like you. For me to reject anyone as a person just because they don't believe like I do is horrible and totally UN Christian. BUT like Galveston, i can't ever say to you " all paths lead to God so whatever path you want to take is just as good as the one i believe". I can't say that because i don't believe it! I believe what Jesus said..he is the ONLY way. However, I respect your choice.

Exactly my view. I have run into some people who have told me that to disagree with their beliefs is to reject them as a person. I have have some great discussions with people that I vehemently disagree with, and who hold too much different faiths. I have become friends with many because of those discussions.

I would hope that those who feel that disagreement is rejection would try lowering their "shields" and separate the person from the points of disagreement.

[Alty]

Thank you for sharing your stories.

My upbringing was a bit different, the church was a part of my life but always in a negative way, I was always on the outside looking in.

My father was Catholic, my mother Lutheran, when they decided to get married they wanted to marry in the Catholic church. They went to the priest and he told them that they could not marry in his church unless my mother became Catholic. She refused, she didn't wish to be Catholic. She knew that the Lutheran pastor wouldn't have a problem with my dad remaining Catholic, so she told the priest that it was fine, they'd marry in the Lutheran church instead. The priest yelled at them, "If you marry in the Lutheran church then you are not married in the eyes of the Lord, you will be living in sin and all your children will be bastards". This was in Germany.

We moved to Canada when I was 3 1/2 years old, I started kindergarten at 5 years of age, and up until grade 2 I went to a public school. I made a friend in my neighborhood and she was Catholic, so I begged my parents to let me go to the Catholic school so I could be with her. It was hard to adjust to a new country, a new language, so they honored my request because they wanted me to be with my friend.

In Catholic school I was ostersized by the teachers and a lot of the kids whose parents didn't want their children playing with a child that wasn't Catholic. In fact, when I was a teen one of my friends parents told me I was going to hell because I'm not Catholic. I told her to save me a spot by the fire. Yes, I had a mouth on me even then. ;)

Ten years of bible study, of sitting on the bench when our school went to church, while the rest of my friends went up to receive communion. My father asking the priest not to single me out, to please let me go up with the rest of the class. No, she's not Catholic, be happy we even allow her in our church, but she won't receive communion. Come on, you can pray over it until you're blue in the face, it's still just a wafer, but to a child who has to sit on the bench, who gets asked questions like "Are you so evil that you can't get communion?" that was a wafer of gold, one I never received in the 10 years I went to Catholic school.

Yes, my parents would have taken me out of that school had I asked, but all my friends were there and I thought I could tough out the hard times. I did tough it out, and turned my back on organized religion for good. But, contrary to some people's belief. I didn't turn my back on God.

I was baptized in the Lutheran faith and I was confirmed in the Lutheran faith, it wasn't until much later that I decided that I had had enough of organized religion and one mans view on the bible. I started to find answers to my questions, and that's what brought me to my beliefs. They are as real to me as yours are to you, you will just have to trust me on that.

That's part of my story. Maybe now you can understand a bit better why I am who I am and believe what I believe. :)

For the record, Classy T, Galveston, I also like the two of you, you are good people and to me that's all that matters. :)

[inthebox]

Altenweg:

Thank you for putting yourself out there, and I hope you do not get another ulcer.

I accept that there are other beliefs and doctrines; although, I do not agree with them all.

I was raised RC, lapsed starting in college,and went through the motions when I did go to church or thought of God. Met my wife, a Baptist, and it was not into my late 30s that I realized that trying to be "good" of my own self will was not enough. I had committed a lot of sins that I could not deny, forget, or feel forgiven for, till I just broke down and pleaded helplessness to the Lord and asked for forgiveness and salvation.

I believe good works are the result of faith and not vice versa.

I believe Jesus Christ died and resurrected for all sin and all sinners that accept this.

[Alty]

Thanks for sharing your beliefs Inthebox, I'm drinking lots of milk for the ulcer. ;)

I believe good works are the result of faith and not vice versa.

This is one point I can't agree with. I don't think that faith has anything to do with good works. There are many people who do good things and are Atheists.

Christianity, Atheism, Deism, Lutheran, Baptist, those are just titles. If a person is bad then it really doesn't matter what title they wear, same thing goes for a good person.

Faith is a choice, it has nothing to do with the kind of people we are. :)

[KBC]

Well,I thought you were going to leave them alone too... tap tap tap,goes the shoes on the floor.

Enough brow beating.

Me, I was raised Roman Catholic,Made to go to not only mass,but Sunday school,VERY much against my will.

At 14 or so(a long time ago... )I converted to Protestant which was my fathers house of prayer.

At 17-18 I was so immersed in drugs and alcohol I was forced,by the courts,into treatment where I learned I didn't HAVE TO do the organized religion thing,I could have a higher power"OF MY UNDERSTANDING"not the teachings I was brought up to believe,not the "If you don't do this,you'll go to hell"Not the punishing,fearful entity which I was taught to believe in.

Well,I saw this as a reprieve from the doom I believed I was in for.

Now, if someone TELLS me that I am going to hell because of this belief,or not being 'allowed' into their heaven because I don't subscribe in there doctrine,well I have a certain belligerence for those people,Zealots,I prefer to call them.

If someone walks in to an AA or NA or CA(ok any 12 step program) and hears the word GOD,they become uncomfortable.Most addicts/alcoholics have been introduced to the all powerful,punishing entity which I have been.They would rather stay on their path as to go religious.In this thought the 'program' states a belief in a 'power greater than yourself' It could be a tree,a rock,the entire group as a whole,a waterfall,whatever.

I looked into the Deist religion you stated was closest to your beliefs,I guess it is similar to this as well.

Now how do we see eye to eye with those who would shun the addict who is teetering on the edge,wholeheartedly attempting to fight off the effects of their addiction,and are told they are not going to succeed unless they convert/conform?

Simply,I can't.

While my program teaches love for all,hate needs addressed or relapse is eminent,it doesn't say repent,conform to this exact way or else... it is a simple suggestion,not a command.You don't command an addict/alcoholic, you suggest and work with them.

I'll stop here for a while and read responses.

Ken

[KBC]

Thanks for sharing your beliefs Inthebox, I'm drinking lots of milk for the ulcer. ;)



This is one point I can't agree with. I don't think that faith has anything to do with good works. There are many people who do good things and are Atheists.

Christianity, Atheism, Deism, Lutheran, Baptist, those are just titles. If a person is bad then it really doesn't matter what title they wear, same thing goes for a good person.

Faith is a choice, it has nothing to do with the kind of people we are. :)

A person I worked with in recovery was a survivor of a satanic cult,born,raised,bread for the continuing breeding of new cultists.

This person is now an attorney constantly working to help the addicts who need legal representation.

Is this person evil because of how they were brought into this world?Was made to do VERY unimaginable things to serve their beliefs?How do we judge them?With open arms,or do we shun them because of their status even though they broke away from their past?I know how I judged them,and I am ashamed of how it turned out.

It's easy to say we can have faith,there is very little to do there to prove it,just say a few lines and there you are,but faith without work is... well... if you have never heard it,I'll not start that fight on this thread.

Ken

[Credendovidis]

..... I'll stop here for a while and read responses.

Dear Ken : it all depends on the replies posted in response : it often seems more that unless responses are pro-Christian, the thread is closed...
With all respect : sometimes I ask myself why those who close threads can't be people of different faiths that accept one another...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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[Alty]

Ken, I know, I'm sorry, I couldn't stay away. I'll take my punishment, I can handle it. ;)

Thank you for telling us about yourself and for telling us about your beliefs and how they came to be.

I think we all have one thing in common, we all believe in something, we all find strength in something, and we are all very human.

For some people the strength they need to go on is found in God, for others it's a program, and for many others it's science. But we all have beliefs.

If we could all accept eachothers beliefs then imagine what this world could be? Paradise, that's what I imagine. :)

[KBC]

Is it closing?

[Alty]

A person I worked with in recovery was a survivor of a satanic cult,born,raised,bread for the continuing breeding of new cultists.

I once dated a Satanist. Great, now I'm going to hell for sure. ;)

He wasn't active in a cult, didn't go to a Satanic church, but he did believe that Satan was his God.

He wasn't a bad person, didn't do bad things, in fact, he was very kind. Every year we delivered toys for Santas anonymous. He volunteered in a homeless shelter once a month (no it wasn't court ordered). He was a good person who just so happened to pray to Satan.

I will admit that his beliefs did cause some problems in our relationship. I've always believed in God, how could I hope to have a relationship with a man who praised Satan?

Ultimately we broke up, we were just to different, but we are still friends to this day, and yes, he's still a Satanist.

Wow, didn't think I'd divulge that info. ;)

[Alty]

Dear Ken : it all depends on the replies posted in response : it often seems more that unless responses are pro-Christian, the thread is closed .....
With all respect : sometimes I ask myself why those who close threads can't be people of different faiths that accept one another .....


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Cred, I think it depends on who joins in the discussion. There are usually only a handful of die hard Christians that won't accept anyone else's beliefs but their own. They will do anything to get you to see their way.

I understand that it's their mission, but, having gone to a Catholic school, I do have to say that Christians are taught to spread the word, not ram it down other peoples throats.

I've had good experiences and bad experiences. Sadly the bad usually stick out more in my memory then the good.

A good Christian is supposed to show you the path, not push you towards it at gun point. ;)

[bsd_tector]

Hi Altenweg. Interesting post.
I was raised Roman Catholic but now I call myself a recovering Catholic. I believe in the creator I call "God" for lack of a better word. God is everything and everything is God.
I don't believe in organized religion or the trinity anymore (google Horus) so I guess I can't call myself a Christian either. My father was a lapsed Lutheran who helped my mom drag all our butts to mass every Sunday, 30 miles to the nearest church through raging Alberta blizzards. My dad was the kindest, most generous, thoughtful man. Now this is what I'm talking about. "Humanitarianism" This is all we need. Whether you believe in evolution or creationism, we may well have all been brothers and sisters at one time. We need to close the gap and become a family again.
I think that all predjudice and hate stems from
Fear. Man has been know to overcome fear
Hasn't he? I am optomistic to the point of foolishness that mankind will find a way to resolve. When the whole world suddenly realizes that they've been feeling faith/love for the same divine force. Only they didn't know it was the same God. This whole "my God is better than your God" will be in the history books.

[KBC]

I guess to answer the first question,

How can we accept Osama Bin Ladens' beliefs which tell him and his followers to kill the 'infidels'.They are only following that which they were taught.

Should we embrace him(them) and accept their beliefs as just and move on?

NO, we can't accept that now can we.