[sleo573]

Good Afternoon,

Can anyone tell me if there is an average guideline for billable hours for a divorce case? Like how much each document should take or something along those lines?

My other Question is in regards to paying my lawyer. We have given her $5,000 up front and we have not gone to court or anything yet and she's burned through that and about $2,000 more which she wants us to pay right away. If we pay her $10 a month is there anything she can do as long as we are making payments. We feel she has grossly taken advantage of our youth and tried to rack up the hours with unnecissary phone calls and appointments.

Thank you for your help.

[GirlWSlingshot]

I guess that's why it's so important to find the right lawyer. Mine is very expensive, but he does not have a minimum for billing hours in a month. So if he does nothing on my case that month, he does not charge anything. Also, if it is just a quick phone call with his assistant changing an address or a phone number on my file, there is no charge. I have a $5000 retainer with him and so far have used about $1300 of it because he is so reasonable.

Typically, if you're actively paying down a debt, you probably won't be sent to collections. But lawyers tend to not be shy about using collection agencies if you haven't made a payment arrangement. I would suggest talking to her and making a payment arrangement so that you don't risk getting a collection agency on your tail.

Check your written agreements with her and see what you're obligated to pay.

[JudyKayTee]

Good Afternoon,

Can anyone tell me if there is an average guideline for billable hours for a divorce case? Like how much each document should take or something along those lines?

My other Question is in regards to paying my lawyer. We have given her $5,000 up front and we have not gone to court or anything yet and she's burned through that and about $2,000 more which she wants us to pay right away. If we pay her $10 a month is there anything she can do as long as we are making payments. We feel she has grossly taken advantage of our youth and tried to rack up the hours with unnecissary phone calls and appointments.

Thank you for your help.

No, there is no average because no two divorces are the same, there is no "routine" charge.

If you do not pay her in accordance with a mutual agreement (between you and your Attorney) she can and possibly will get a Judgment against you. There is an urban myth that as long as make monthly payments a credit can not move against you and it is just that - an untrue myth.

What is her hourly charge? That is more important than the total. When you receive the periodic statements concerning services rendered, how detailed is it and why do you think the appointments and phone calls are unnecessary?

In my area Attorneys are requesting a $7,500 retainer and are charging upwards of $250 an hour for matrimonial work, more for Court appearances, so it's hard to know if you are being overcharged. Also, the more complicated the divorce, the more issues, the more time it takes and the higher the bill.

If you feel this Attorney is not being honest with you and have lost faith in her then it would be in your best interest, pay her, get your file, move to another Attorney. Once you lose faith in your Attorney things seem to go downhill.

[cadillac59]

Gosh, I guess I'm cheap!

The rates are going up tomorrow.

[GirlWSlingshot]

Gosh, I guess I'm cheap!

The rates are going up tomorrow.

No kidding! My guy is great and he's $300/hr and normally asks for a $7500 retainer for a simple divorce.

[cadillac59]

No kidding! My guy is great and he's $300/hr and normally asks for a $7500 retainer for a simple divorce.

I won't quote my rates but when people ask me what family law attorneys charge, in general, I tell them in my county (which is a Bay Area county) the hourly is between $250 and $400 and retainers from $2500-5000. I didn't even raise my rates when I became a CFLS (certified family law specialist) but maybe I should have. I'm usually just happy if I get my bills paid on time.:)

I've heard in SF the rates are up to $500/hr, which is why I'd love to pick up a case or two over there.

[stinawords]

Well, for starters if you are still using her and refuse to pay then she can drop your case until your payments are caught up. Second, the whole ten dollars a month thing is also dependent upon if she accepts those payments. Even if it was $100 it would be dependent on her cashing those payments. This might also vary somewhat by state I am an accountant in IN so I know this works here but not 100% about other states. If you are no longer using that service and all you had is a big debt and you send a small check each month and they cash it by law it means that they accept those payment terms. So if they were to try to take you to court you just have your proof that they cashed your checks with you. However, if you sent them a small check each month and they do not cash it then obviously they don't accept those terms of payment and can use whatever means they find necessary to recover the debt from you.

[cadillac59]

I had someone pull that $10 per month thing on me once. The collection agency bugged her for a while and finally she paid up. I accepted a little less than the full bill. She was a nice lady but just didn't have the money so I really didn't give her a hard time.

If you're nice to me I'm nice to you and will cut the bill a bit if I have to. I don't want a client's last dollar.

[JudyKayTee]

Gosh, I guess I'm cheap!

The rates are going up tomorrow.

I've been thinking about going back to school and becoming a plumber (after I just hired a plumber and almost fainted from shock when I got the bill) but now I'm reconsidering.

What's the old joke? The plumber repairs the sink and hands the homeowner the bill. She says, "I can't believe this. I pay my Attorney less than this per hour," and he says, "I know, that's why I quit practicing law."

[paintmadman]

JudyKayTee said, "Would you go on line for information and then perform surgery on yourself? If not, don't go on line and prepare your own divorce papers."

The risks and obstacles are hardly in the same universe. Why would you say such a thing? An intelligent person given some reasonable guidelines and enough research can certainly help him or herself with a legal process. I have fired two attorneys who definitely made things worse for me than if I had studied up and handled the case myself. A lousy surgeon will be exposed way, way, way before a lousy attorney. Even after I complained to the bar about an attorney's direct violation (which will cost me thousands annually for the rest of my life) of the Rules of Conduct, with documented proof AND the attorney's admission, the Bar did NOTHING! NADA, NICHTS, NIETS, NOUGHT, ZILCH ZIP, ZERO.

You can tell what is in a man's soul by the way he treats his clients.

PMM

[JudyKayTee]

JudyKayTee said, "Would you go on line for information and then perform surgery on yourself? If not, don't go on line and prepare your own divorce papers."

The risks and obstacles are hardly in the same universe. Why would you say such a thing? An intelligent person given some reasonable guidelines and enough research can certainly help him or herself with a legal process. I have fired two attorneys who definitely made things worse for me than if I had studied up and handled the case myself. A lousy surgeon will be exposed way, way, way before a lousy attorney. Even after I complained to the bar about an attorney's direct violation (which will cost me thousands annually for the rest of my life) of the Rules of Conduct, with documented proof AND the attorney's admission, the Bar did NOTHING! NADA, NICHTS, NIETS, NOUGHT, ZILCH ZIP, ZERO.

You can tell what is in a man's soul by the way he treats his clients.

PMM

Spoken like someone in the field of chemistry instead of the field of law. My education, training and experience are the reason I say "such a thing."

I also can't help but notice your 10 posts concerning modification of a Court Order, asking how/where to find case law, seeking advice from strangers on a public board. Inability to research, inability to know who KNOWS the law and who is guessing is another reason to retain legal counsel. I further notice that in order to prevail in your arguments concerning how support is calculated you will have to amend California Law.

Your hostility toward Attorneys comes through loud and clear, but that's not unusual. Everyone on the losing end blames his/her Attorney.

Obviously - judging by your end line - you have a specific problem with me. Why is that? Or do you have a problem with all women?

You do know the difference between advice and a signature line, don't you?

[Fr_Chuck]

I know Judy, I have to laugh at times, I will post, then someone else will post ( or they post first) but we both say about the same thing. I almost never get a reply or someone making a comment and you get an entire list of people who seem to even stalk you at times. Have you ever considered changing your sig line?

As for as doing it yourself, heck I have been to law school, but you don't study divorce law specificly and that law changes, Plus you are personally attached to the case if you are doing it yourself.

[JudyKayTee]

I know Judy, I have to laugh at times, I will post, then someone else will post ( or they post first) but we both say about the same thing. I almost never get a reply or someone making a comment and you get an entire list of people who seem to even stalk you at times. Have you ever considered changing your sig line ??

As for as doing it yourself, heck I have been to law school, but you don't study divorce law specificly and that law changes, Plus you are personally attached to the case if you are doing it yourself.

Yes, I've thought of changing my signature line but when I'm forced to think about it my thoughts would get me arrested. The rest of the time, no, I don't think about it. :D

I get stalked even MORE often in person, if that's possible. I prefer to think of them as "misguided fans," rather than stalkers.

You bring up a good point about representing yourself - on the average people are too involved, can't see the forest for the trees, to represent themselves. That's why Attorney's Attorneys are pretty much the cream of the crop.

[Justwantfair]

You can tell what is in a man's soul by the way he treats his dog.

So if he doesn't like animals, what does that mean... since we are overanalyzing your signature line... :)

[JudyKayTee]

You can tell what is in a man’s soul by the way he treats his dog.

So if he doesn't like animals, what does that mean.... since we are overanalyzing your signature line... :)

Right - add dogs to the list which now contains Judges, Attorneys, wives and women in general - :D.

And I'm insulted by your signature line which I think is aimed specifically at me.:D

[Justwantfair]

And to think I think my signature is all about me... cause everything is all about me.

[Justwantfair]

Your hostility toward Attorneys comes through loud and clear, but that's not unusual. Everyone on the losing end blames his/her Attorney.

It isn't necessarily the people on the losing end that blames his or her Attorney. The whole court system isn't regulated to be productive, it is a drowned out "discovery process", there aren't adequate reasons Family Law cases cost thousands of dollars and takes months to years to finish. Especially taking long when one side can afford to foot the bill of his/her half and the other side can not.

Attorneys are in a field where they are paid at top Surgeon salaries without the ability for qualified people to have "insurance" or financial assistance. When fighting for your children parents are willing to do anything but being financial raped by a money hungry system is a lot for anyone to bear.

I am not on the losing end, but I still think that the system is crap. I do all of my own research on Illinois Statues and stay on top of my case in every way that I can. I would be willing to represent myself if the judge would be willing for me to even open my mouth, but he has made it clear if you aren't an attorney talking your voice is falling on death ears. So you pay someone SO incredibly much for them to represent you and you are one of fifty cases going that month and it never falls that by the time they stand up there to represent you they don't have a clue what your children's names are or what grade they are in. It's a hurtful process and it sucks for any lay person going through it.

[paintmadman]

It isn't necessarily the people on the losing end that blames his or her Attorney. The whole court system isn't regulated to be productive, it is a drowned out "discovery process", there aren't adequate reasons Family Law cases cost....

I agree. The system is, by law, adversarial. Attorneys have to be aggressive complicating everything. In California there are efforts being made to make divorce more mediate-able. But some people have found how to exploit the system to create the maximum damage to the other spouse and run up the highest attorney fees. The attorneys are all too happy to oblige. "We can do discovery too, just to piss them off, oh, and by the way, it will cost you $2500 to prepare docs." Now that I have been through the entire process I would have done things a lot differently. But that's life in the big city. Now I am representing myself and learning a lot about how the system works. I don't get much respect from the judge because I am sure it's a pain to deal with a novice. But I am trying.

PMM

[Fr_Chuck]

Can someone tell me why my posts keep turning up missing? Is this the Gestapo thread where certain "inconvenient" posts are simply "disappeared"?

PMM

At least two of your posts have been deleted because they were rude and insulting. You seem to have a issue with some of the posters who are trying to help.

A persons sig line is not part of their answer, and you were very insulting and completely out of place.

We moderate this site very carefully, And yes rude posts will go away

[paintmadman]

What posts are you talking about ? If you were attacking someone on this site then they may have been deleted. But if your asking honest questions they shouldnt be deleted but sometimes may take a few minutes to appear.

Well, I was actually responding (sarcastically) to someone who was directing personal insults toward me. But I see that person's post has been deleted as well. You have a very efficient system here. The posts were deleted within minutes of posting. I thought I was hallucinating.

I had no business replying sarcastically, I should have just ignored the insults. Thank you for responding.

PMM