[oneboysurfing]

I just replaced the condenser fan motor and it initially spun up then stopped, after 10 minutes it ran again then stopped. Now I can hear it buzz then stop but not spin. The original motor was a GE 5KCP39BG K075CS 1/6 HP 1075 RPM 208/230 V its replacement a Dayton 4M205G 1/4 hp 1075 RPM 208/230 V single phase , auto thermal protect requires a 5MFD capacitor which was purchased and replaced. I did not replace the round start capacitor, I had it tested at Grainger and I was told it read 38 and was rated for 40 using a capacitor tester. Could that be the culprit? Also the motor was hot to the touch after being installed on 10-15 minutes. Any suggestions will be apppreciated. Thanks in advance.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

The thermal protect is probably causing the motor to shut down. Did you make sure the new motor is rotating in the same direction as the old one; i.e. CW or CCW? These motors require the cooling effect of the air from the fan to stay cool. If it's rotating in the wrong direction, the motor is not getting cooled. It could also be overheating by working harder to rotate the fan blades in the wrong direction, where you run the risk of bending the blades, which are specifically designed for a particular pitch, speed, and direction. There's normally a plug on the condenser fan motor where you can reverse the wires--very easy to do. The start capacitor is for the compressor motor, not the condenser fan motor.

It could also be that the new motor draws greater amperage than what the old contactor can deliver. If you have a 2-pole contactor, the contacts going to the condenser fan motor could be shot. Therefore, the solution could be that the old contactor needs replacing. Why did you change the h.p. rating of the motor? Are you sure you wired the new motor properly? [Did you effectively remove the old condenser fan run capacitor from the circuit?] Maybe you reversed the wiring to the start and run circuits of the new motor. Double check all of your wiring.

[oneboysurfing]

When I went to Grainger they did not mention tha t1/4 would make a differrence and provided what they could cross reference to. I checked the rotation of the motor and it is turning CW, same as the old motor. I had to buy a new Fan Blade as the other one was unable to be removed using a puller and lubricants. I cut the shaft from the old motor in an attempt to further prod the shaft from the fan assembly to no avail. The new fan blade sticker is marked as CW. The new motor has four wires and a ground. I did attach the ground. 2 of the wires are brown 1 with a white stripe, the counter man at Grainger attached them to the accompanying capacitor. The remaning wires one black, and one purple I was told to attach to L1 and L2 respectively. When turned on the switch in the breaker box( rated for 40 amps) the fan was running when I came out to check on it. Then it stopped running.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

I'm concerned about your wiring. A wiring diagram is usually contained in the plastic bag protecting the Service Facts inside the condenser unit. Purple (Common from fan motor) normally goes to T1, not L1, on the left pole of the contactor. T1 is on the "Load" side of the contactor, not the "Line" side. Similarly, the Black (Run winding from fan motor) wire from the condenser fan motor normally goes to the + terminal (T2) on load side of the other contactor pole (on some 1.5 pole contactors it could be a shunt). Make sure the YL/BR wire going to F (Fan) on the old run condenser is disconnected, since you installed a new line capacitor. Wiring the Black and Purple wires on the line side of the contactor would cause the condenser fan to constantly run. The thermostat and contactor are supposed to control this.

Once you get this straightened out, remember to oil both ports on your new fan motor each year with 15 drops of ISO 32 wt. turbine oil, from a zoom spout oiler, which is available from ACE Harware for around $1.65. Turbine oil is the proper motor lubricant, since it contains the proper anti-wear and anti-rust/oxidation additives and readily repels water--water is easily emulsifide in most other oils. This way, your new motor should last for years. If you have sealed bearings, there is nothing to do. Being TxGreaseMonkey, I use top-of-the-line Mobil synthetic electric motor bearing lubricant SHC624 or Amsoil equivalent (RCH05). These are more industrial products.

If you get a stuck shaft in the future, or any fastener that's rusted and doesn't want to budge, spray it with PB Blaster and let it sit for a while. Chances are that it will come lose. The stuff is very powerful--try not to breath the fumes. Another excellent product is Kroil, which has been around for a long time.

[oneboysurfing]

I tried moving the black and purple wire from the L1 (Black) and L2 Purple to T3 (Black) and T1 (Purple) turned on the breaker and the fan started up ran for 2 minutes and stopped. It started again after 5 minutes for 1 minute then stopped. Next time just a humm and no rotation. I turned off the breaker switch. Any other suggestions?
Purple black all go to oval cap 5MFD

Comp motor or or or
T1 --|--------|-------|----|----|---- T3
| | _

Tan _| O screw O screw | _ tan -therostat ?

| |

Mof _| purple |
--------------------------------------------------------------





| |

| O screw O screw |

L1 | blk tan |
--|---|---------------------------|---|-------
In from 60a breaker box outside
One tab empty on each side

[letmetellu]

I am not familiar with a condensing fan motor that would have a black wire and a purple wire and then the two brown wires. Normally it is a black wire and a white wire or a black wire and a yellow wire. You wiring should be as follows. The two brown wires go the new capacitor that you purchased. No other wires go to that capacitor. The other two wires go to the two post on the contactor that is opposite from the line coming in. I did not say L1 or T1 because so many of the new contactors are not marked, you can even switch ends and it does not matter. Just make sure that you use poles that are not the same as the poles that your in coming power is connected to. If you motor does not run then you have another problem. If you have a motor that is reversible and you did reverse it it is possibl that you got the wires wrong. Best that you look at the wiring diagram to see which wires go together to make it CW or CCW.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Purple Black
T1 T2(+)

= =

L1 L2(+)

[oneboysurfing]

I tried to show in my diagram that on the left side - T1 I had purple from the compressor and lack from the motor-on the side of T1 is a tan wire that looks like thermostat from inside the house. I connected the motor's purple wire on the position next to the tan wire. On the right side T3- are 3 orange wires one heavey gauge coming from the compressor and 2 lighter gauge connected to capacitor 5MFD, on the side of T3 is an open connector and then the other side of the thermostat, I think.
On the line side of the contactor is L1 Black wire in from a 60a Breaker and L2- tan wire coming in from the 60a breaker. You did say take the orange wires off the capacitor and only have the Brown and Brown with the white stripe, what do I do with orange wires, can I remove them all together?
The person who sold me the new fan blade said it was for CW rotation and that once mounted shaft down it should rotate CCW ? So I reversed the motor rotation to accommodate. Was that correct?
Thanks again for all the help, hopefully I can get it going.
Is it possible that the contactor is bad?
The motor ran for about 5 minutes and I could fell the coils cool and then the motor slowed to a stop and when it tried to start I heard a clicking and a buzz, but fan did not come on again. The fan strart on initial power up but then stops.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Yes, most contactors need replacing after 6 to 8 years, depending upon use. Points get pitted and, as they do, the effective the cross-sectional area becomes less. As the effective cross-sectional area gets cut in half, the resistance goes up 4-fold. Your compressor motor and condenser fan motor can burn up, because they are starved for current. A contactor is at the heart of properly maintaining your air conditioner. It's the single most important component for the do-it-yourselfer to maintain for trouble-free AC operation and long life. Trust me, it's very important.

I still think your wiring is incorrect. Do you have a 2-pole contactor (2 physical contacts that go up and down)? If you do, then I think my suggested wiring will work fine. If you still have problems, talk to Robert at www.famousparts.com
This is a great place online to buy contactors, motors, and capacitors.

[rickdb1]

Does the compressor continue to run when the fan shuts off? If so, you have a bad motor(It happens) or the capacitor it shot. I'd take it back to Grainger and let them test it... Also, the motor will have a diagram on it for wiring... T-1... T-2, Browns to capacitor and it should go...

[oneboysurfing]

I removed the 2 orange wires from the T3 side of the contactor going to the 5mfd capacitor and moved the purple wire from the fan motor to the T3 spade connector. The contactor now has a red wire from the compressor and a black wire from the motor on the T1 side and a tan wire from the complressor and the purple wire from the motor. The capacitor has 2 brown wires from the motor. Lastly L1 has a Black wire and L2 has a tan wire. I turned the power on and the fan began to spin. I think that the orange wires were feeding 110 v to the capacitor which was causing it to overcharge and the motor would start and then stop and begin to heat up. Is that an accurate assumption. L1 ,L2 120V each, T1 ,T3 110 v each. Thermostat wires 25v + or - . No the big question, now that the fan is running, how long will it take before its cooling is noticeable. The A/C has been off for 4 days and the temperature has been averaging 88-90 degrees during the day and upper 70's at night. The thermostat reads 90 plus degrees. The thermostat does not seem to turn on or off when moving the dial. Previously it would click when it was turning on the A/C. Outside fan is still turning. It fan blade is labeled CW and I mounted it with adjusting screws facing up when installed it is facing down and turns CCW is this correct?
Thanks for all the help and suggestions, all your support enabled me to perservere.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

I really can't pass judgment on the wiring. It's too difficult to do over the internet. My sense, though, is that you need to reverse the black and purple wires. Did you call Robert at FamousParts.Com? He knows his stuff, having worked as an HVAC technician for 35 years. You can easily evaluate cooling effectiveness, however. If the temperature differential is at least 15 degrees F between the air coming out of the ceiling vent nearest your furnace and the return air duct, everything is fine and you shouldn't need to check the freon level. Also, the outside large freon (insulated, low pressure) return copper tubing should be cold and condensate should form on it, when you grab it with your hand.

Remember, once you know for sure you have the wiring right, do yourself a favor and replace the contactor (mount the new contactor, then replace wire-for-wire). Spray all connectors with WD-40, making sure not to get any on the contact surfaces of the contactor. Alternatively, use silcone dielectric grease on all connectors. Keep the inside electrical area clean of dirt, fire ants, and spiders. They are dielectric and can cause problems with contactors. Do the same for your AC disconnect or breaker. Then, remove the coil covers on both sides and the front of the condenser unit and take a garden hose and gently flush the condenser coils clean of dirt and debris, being careful not to bend any of the coil fins. Never hose down the condenser coils while the unit is running. It goes without saying how important it is to regularly replace the furnace filter. If you don't, the evaporator coils will get plugged and lead to all sorts of problems. Also, make sure the condenser unit is level in both directions. Finally, pour 8 parts water to 1 part Clorox bleach down the evaporator drain pipe to prevent mold and fungus from developing.

Since you replaced your fan blade, make sure the unit draws air in through the sides (cooling the freon gas and converting it back to a liquid) and out the top of the condenser unit. The airflow out the top should be very strong. Don't cut your grass around your condenser unit, while it is running. Grass gets sucked in and blocks the condenser coils, creating a major problem. Annually, wax your outside cabinet and oil both ports on your condenser fan motor with 15 drops of turbine oil.

Keep us posted.

[letmetellu]

A Clockwise rotation fan is not going to change to a Counter clockwise rotation fan just because you turned the fan upside down. A fan blade is designed to be just one and not both. By turning the blade upside down you may move some air but the blade will be pitched wrong and will not move the right amount of air.

[oneboysurfing]

Can't tell if the compressor is running or not, feeling the lines they are cool but not sweating or ice cold. Can I use a 2 pole contactor if the original is a 1.5 pole contactor? Haven't looked at bottom of contactor yet or checked voltages to see if 24v is present. All voltages are present coming in from externql power source and going to motor.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

No, you should only use a 1.5 pole, which is 1 pole and a shunt. Probably a C25CNB120T, 1.5 pole, 30 amp, 24 VAC coil from Cutler Hammer would work. Other than not being real cold, do you think the wiring is correct and does it seem to be working O.K. I still have reservations about the wiring, especially now that you tell me you have a 1.5 pole contactor. I still think Purple should go to my T1 and Black should go to my T2. You should definitely know when the compressor motor cuts in. Is air being sucked in from the sides and blown vigorously out the top of the condenser unit?

[oneboysurfing]

I would'nt say vigorously, but it blows up and out the top of the condenser unit and suck in from the sides, I used a little baby powder to verify airflow.I had to go to Mingeldorfs to get a replacement fan blade, in a pinch I was sold a 18" 3 blade with a 2.8 pitch to replace the 2 blade , unknown pitch due the Grainger folks trying to help me remove the original fan blade from the old compressor using a puller, hammer, and spray of some sort. In the end no success removing the blade from the old shaft but it was bent pretty good in the process. I sent an email to revcor with the part number to see if they could point me in the right direction as far as pitch and replacement. I asked the Mingeldorf counter person If a2 pole could be used in placw of a 1.5 pole contactor and they said it wouldn't hurt anything. I did call Famous Parts to find out if I had a 1,1.5,or 2pole contactor, he was helpful and told me I had a 1.5 pole contactor.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Give us an update.

[oneboysurfing]

I replaced the contactor, and the fan ran after the power was turned on. Still no cooling to speak of .Maybe 18" 3 blade with a 2.8 pitch that replaced my 18" 2-blade fan is the wrong replqcement as there is still not forcefull air blowing out of the top of the condenser unit. I looked on the Revcor site and found 4 -18" 2 -blade models with dimensions-I'll try to determine which is the right replacement and go from there. Hope it is not the compressor after all... : )

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Do you hear the compressor cut in? If not, it's probably a problem with the wiring. Before focusing on the condenser fan blade, I'd be sure the compressor runs. Keep me posted--I'm rooting for you!

[oneboysurfing]

Don't really know how to tell, the compressor has a module built on to it which has 2 wires each going to a spade on the contactor. At the contactor one on the t1 side and one on the t2 side and the condenser fan is spinning and fairly cool. Should the voltage at the contactor for compressor be 110v? What does the module on the compressor do? And is it replaceable? The compressor just looks like a small tank with that module attached. I was told that if I had the wrong fan, it wouldn't move air through the coils properly and convert the gas to a liquid or vise-a - versa. Tough being a rookie.