[Juicy Brucey]

I started as an education major in the State University of NY Oswego. I made an unusual, and perhaps unwise decision to put my learning in first place, and made no efforts to get a degree. I read "Pedagogy of the Oppressed" by Ivan Illich, and got turned on to his untraditional, radical approach to education. After 2 years at SUNY Oswego, I traveled abroad, visited nearly 30 countries, and took assorted courses for 3 more years in different universities in South America. Have done and still do lots of unpaid volunteer work. I opened my own language academy in Chile, since I have a wife and 2 kids and must pay my bills! My lack of a bonafide degree is now a serious hindrance. My son got 1 of the highest SAT scores in the nation & now is in 3rd year med school. And I'm facing serious bills! I'd like to somehow piece all my credits together, and get a real degree! Even if it means taking a few more courses. I'd even consider coming back to the US for a while for this. Is there some legitimate outfit that can help me with this? Not a phoney "degree mill"!

Thanks!

[GaryArt]

You need to check out the book "Bear's Guide to Earning College Degrees Non-Traditionally", or any of the other books written by Dr. John Bear, probably the world's foremost expert on the subject of non-resident degree programs and distance learning. There are a great many legitimate, accredited institutions that offer programs to earn or complete a degree via mail or internet, including, a large number that grant or recognize credit for educational or equivalent experiences elsewhere; you can read about almost all of them in Dr. Bear's books. In my personal experience, one of the best, in terms of convenience for overseas students, credit for prior experiences, and cost, is Excelsior College in Albany, NY, which started life as part of the SUNY system, run by the Regents of the University, and has been awarding fully accredited degrees since 1971. Also worth looking at are Empire State College, Charter Oak State College, Thomas Edison State College, Goddard College, and Vermont College. Most of these schools' programs are based upon the concept that "what you know is more important than how you learned it". Good luck. GaryArt, B.S. Univ. of the St. of N.Y. (political sc.), '83

[Veronica678]

I don't know if Almeda University is considered in any of Bear's books, but If your Life Experience degree came from Almeda University, I heard that there is a way to get that degree converted into a degree issued by a major well known, fully [regionally] accredited state-university. I think it's either in Tennessee or one of the Carolina's. Almeda seems to be the only university degree that will convert this way. If anyone has any information on this, please post. I am researching this now and will post again as soon as I find the answer.

[Curlyben]

Here's some interesting links regarding Almeda "University"

The first three sponsored links are the most telling:

Almeda University
www.AlmedaUniversity.org The official home page for Almeda University
Almeda university
www.belforduniversity.org Convert Your Life Exp Into An Accredited Degree. Free Evaluation.
Almeda university
www.affordabledegrees.com Boua Accredited Degree. Employer Verification. Fast Delivery.

[Fr_Chuck]

I will add none of the schools including Almeda is accreded by the U.S. Department of Education which is the guide many businesses in the US use to accept or not accept. With that said of course there are many non traditional schools that are not accredited that offer fine degrees from actual study.

But if you wish to find a degree honored by all US business you will need to find one that is listed with the US Dept of Education

[Veronica678]

Fr Chuck is right in that if you wish to find a degree honored by all US business you will need to find one that is listed with the US Dept of Education.

But, if you are okay with only 67 percent of US businesses honoring your degree (according to vault.com) you can save tens of thousands of dollars getting a Life Experience degree from Almeda University or another Life Experience degree granting institution.

A few years ago, an article in Forbes magazine entitled "Is Yale a Waste of Money?" posited that a college degree's main value is simply because it tells employers you're smart enough to get into college. Forbes even floated the notion that an entrepreneur could charge something like $16,000 to certify qualified high-school graduates as being worthy of attending an Ivy League college. Then those who paid for the certification could save themselves the approximately $144,000 that college would have cost them, start work immediately rather than wait for the four years of college to be over, and be that much ahead of the game than their peers who actually went to college.

Interestingly enough, a Life Experience degree offers that very same advantage proposed by none other than Forbes magazine. And a Life Experience degree costs only $500 - $1000.

Is it worth the price? Again, according to vault.com, 67 percent of all corporations accept a Life Experience degree. Isn't that worth a whole lot more to the roughly 50% of the people who start college but never finish? They have no degree, even though they squandered thousands of dollars on some "fine college education" they never completed. Think of all the money they wasted and also all the money they could have earned during the time they were in college.

If you still think that five hundred bucks for a Life Experience degree is a rip-off, be aware that York University charges $1200.00 just in parking fees! Texas Tech charges an I.D. Maintenance fee. Some more actual fees charged by "legitimate" universities include Information Technology Fee, Library Fee, Cultural Activities Fee, Medical Services Fee, Student Services Fee, Late Payment Registration Fee, Testing Fee, Drop/Add Fee, Computer Lab Fee, Graduation Fee, Student Union Fee, Student Recreation Center Fee, Student Transportation Fee, ID Card Maintenance Fee, Student Business Services Fee, Intercollegiate Athletic Fee, Energy Fee, and more. By the way, these fees are charged to all students. Not just the 50 percent that graduate.

It would be one thing if everyone who started college had a great experience there, graduated, and actually used their knowledge, not just the degree, to create a better life for themselves. But that's not always, or even usually, the case. According to ACT (http://www.act.org/news/releases/2002/11-15-02.html) 49 percent (nearly HALF) of all freshmen entering a traditional four-year college will not graduate. Fully 25 percent of the freshmen will not even return for their sophomore year. 10 percent of the freshmen withdraw from college before the end of the first semester. The colleges know this and they plan for it by having less housing for seniors than freshmen. Colleges do not even have the facilities to graduate all those freshmen entering their school.

Listen to this quote from another Forbes article entitled "Five Reasons to Skip College" published just this year (April 23, 2006): "For, in truth, most professions - journalism, software engineering, sales, and trading stocks to name but a few - depend far more on 'on-the-job' education than on classroom learning."

Isn't that the story behind the Life Experience degree? Get one and doors open-faster, easier, and much less expensively than by squandering years of your life and tens of thousands of your dollars on a traditional college "education".

[Curlyben]

Veronica, or should I say Robert.
What is most telling is what can be found on their sites.

It's now possible to earn affordable
ACCREDITED DEGREES!

• No Studies
• No Attendance
• No Waiting
• No Examinations
• No Hefty Fee

Now how can you earn a degree without studying or even being examined in the subject you are studying ?

A degree is an academic title conferred by universities and colleges as an indication of the completion of a course of study, or as an honorary recognition of achievement.
Now normally to satisfy these conditions testing of the students knowledge is required. Normally this is in the form of examinations.

Now to move on to Almeda and the others of this group.
There's a number of very interesting pieces about these 'universities', but I'll post the simplest ones so you can understand.
All links taken from Wiki:
Almeda; Belford; Rochville.

While it is true that there are some unaccredited universities that award recognised degrees, this is NOT true for all of them.
More information concerning unaccredited universities.
The most telling part of this piece is the degree mill warning signs:

Not every unaccredited school is a diploma mill - all schools start unaccredited. These are some of the warning signs which may indicate a diploma mill:

* It lacks accreditation by a nationally recognized accrediting agency, especially if it is accredited by an accreditation mill.
* Words denoting a legal status such as "licensed", "state authorized" or "state-approved" are misused to suggest an equivalence to accreditation.
* The address is a postal box or mail forwarding service.
* Promotional literature contains grammatical and spelling errors, words in Latin, extravagant or pretentious language, and sample diplomas.
* Degrees can be obtained within a few weeks or months from the time of enrollment, back-dating is possible.
* Faculty members hold advanced degrees from the institution itself or similar organizations.
* Academic credit is offered for life experience, and this features heavily in the selling points of the institution.
* Tuition and fees are paid on a degree basis rather than on a per-semester, per-quarter or per-course basis.
* Prospective students are encouraged to "enroll now" before tuition or fees are increased, or they qualify for a "fellowship", "scholarship" or "grant".
* It has no library.
* Doctoral theses and dissertations are not lodged with the Library of Congress or other national repository.
* The school's website looks amateurish or unprofessionally made.

Well as Almeda ticks a number of these, I'm sure I don't have to continue.
Thank you for your time.

[Veronica678]

Curlyben -

Okay. These are "degree mills" according to your definition. But so what?

Whether you refer to them as Diploma Mills or Unaccredited Life Experience Degree Granting Institutions, my question to you is simply SO WHAT? Are you suggesting that people in their mid 40's with tons of life experience pay tens of thousands of dollars and waste years of their lives to get a piece of paper that says they are worthy to continue in life? The simple fact is, whether you like it or not, the vast majority (more than 92 percent according to epubliceye.com) of people that have received their life experience degrees from one of these “diploma mills” are quite satisfied with the doors the degrees have opened for them and would do it again.

It is true that these degrees may not be legal in 5 or 6 states (especially for government jobs), but most of the states have no laws against these degrees. If they are legal and your employer accepts them, what is the problem?

Why do people get degrees anyway? It is certainly not to learn anything. It is not even to get a degree; Not really. The real reason people go to a university is so they can have the name of a well-known institution on their resume. Thousands of people spend the usual four years in a course of study, working and studying very hard to be able to get their degree, but in a place which nobody has ever heard of. The result of all this time and money will be almost worthless. What if a university called “University of Uzupugsta” existed, and it was furthermore a fully accredited university by accreditors recognized by the Department of Education, and a person gave their all to study there and earn their degree? What would it be good for?

When a prospective employer looks at your qualifications, and they see a degree, they are very unlikely to think about whether that university is accredited or not. They likely will not ask you. Instead, they will see one of two things: Degree from well-known, prestigious place like Harvard, or degree from a place they've never heard of. Even if you worked to get your degree legitimately, it will have all been for virtually nothing if it was at a community college or some other local institution. It is virtually worthless.

And so what all this means is you have basically two choices. You can get a degree from a well-known place, or from an unknown place. Since there are very few people who can get into one of the dozen or so Ivy Leagues, you are most likely going to have to choose a lesser-known name. And since you know that this name will be scorned by anyone who sees it, why would you want to invest four years of your life and thousands of dollars for that?

Unless you have the money, time, and prerequisites to get into a nationally-recognized university a degree from a "diploma mill" may serve exactly the same purpose as one from a community college, for a lot less money – especially if you have 15 or more years work experience already under your belt. If you are able to go to Yale, I would encourage you to do so, as there are certainly very few people in the world who can. Only a select few are enrolled into each of those big-name universities each year, and their name on your resume will certainly attract lots of people wanting to hire you. But if you cannot, you may be simply throwing away your money to get a "real" degree from an unknown place. Since employers rarely ask questions about the university named, do you think it will make any difference in their eyes whether it is an unknown accredited place, or an unknown non-accredited place? Unlikely.

I hope I speak for Curlyben hereby encouraging those that have obtained a Life Experience degree to post on this forum to describe your experience.

[kp2171]

[B]


If you still think that five hundred bucks for a Life Experience degree is a rip-off, be aware that York University charges $1200.00 just in parking fees! Texas Tech charges an I.D. Maintenance fee. Some more actual fees charged by "legitimate" universities include Information Technology Fee, Library Fee, Cultural Activities Fee, Medical Services Fee, Student Services Fee, Late Payment Registration Fee, Testing Fee, Drop/Add Fee, Computer Lab Fee, Graduation Fee, Student Union Fee, Student Recreation Center Fee, Student Transportation Fee, ID Card Maintenance Fee, Student Business Services Fee, Intercollegiate Athletic Fee, Energy Fee, and more. By the way, these fees are charged to all students. Not just the 50 percent that graduate.

First of all, I taught at a university, and while I hold formal education in high esteem, I also believe much of what has been mentioned about other paths. My mother, for example, worked her way into a field without a degree and by learning on the job, knows much of the info that is taught to first year med students. I absolutely agree that there are many ways to find education and success. One of the richest people I know personally had a HS degree and cut lawns for a living until he built up a lawn care business and sold it for a few mil.

It might surprise some that the 50% completion rate is actually a realistic number, but the rate is higher when you tie to students with higher ACT and HS grades. Students who drop out are often (not always) students who were really not prepared in the first place for the rigors of formal ed.

Also, your post suddenly smacks of an infomercial. No ties to said institution or website?? Few laypersons off the street would throw together such an extended discourse. Methinks not it all as it seems. Or maybe it is exactly as it seems?

[Veronica678]

also, your post suddenly smacks of an infomercial. no ties to said institution or website???

Just sticking up for what I believe in, and the degree that I earned.