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Morganite · Jun 15, 2006, 10:36 AM

Fr. Chuck,

Your answer is not quite correct. Although the LDS Mormon church does, as you correctly point out, have a lay ministry, each of their local congregations are overseen by lay bishops.

From: http://www.mormon.org/book/0,9768,826-1,00.html (final paragasph)

Our local congregations are called wards (or branches). The spiritual leader of each ward is called the bishop (or the branch president for branches). He is a member of the congregation who has been asked to serve as a volunteer in this position. Because we have a lay ministry rather than paid clergy, all Church service is voluntary.

A site that advises Mormons how to leave the LDS Mormon church states: Getting your name removed from the church records is usually very simple. The process begins by sending your bishop a written, signed request.

M:)RGANITE[/QUOTE]

Morganite · Jun 15, 2006, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by magprob

Ok, that's what they say and a lot of Mormons do not practice it...a lot more than you might believe do. I live in Southern Idaho and have to go to Salt Lake for supplies for my business. I can take you to places in Salt Lake City, many places, where it is quite obvious what is happening. It happens more than you may know.

The age a girl can marry in Utah is 14. I think it has become more of a pedophile thing than a Holy Matrimony thing.

I have read your replies with increasing interest. I am forced to conclude that you just have it in for Mormons because a Mormon has told you about SLC Mormons and polygamy but you roll over it as if he was lying to you.. Next, you make an accusation about pedophiles in Utah because - you say - the age a person can be married is fourteen. That is simply not true and for you to say it is, is either a sign of ignorance or malfeasance. I have just searched the Web - something you ought to have done - to see if there is any truth in anything you say. This is the result:

From: http://www.utcourts.gov/howto/marriage/

What do Utah's Laws say about the Marriage of a Minor?

Utah law states that marriage at the age of 18 years and above does not require parental consent. For those aged 16-17, parental consent is necessary. For those 15 years old, the following requirements must be met:

* Parental consent must be obtained
* Approval from Juvenile Court is necessary. The court must conclude that the marriage is voluntary and in the best interests of the minor.
* The court may require premarital counseling where and when appropriate.

What Persons may Legally Perform my Wedding Ceremony?

A minister, rabbi, priest, mayor, judge, county clerk, Native American spiritual adviser, the Governor, court commissioners and judges, as well as particular members of the legislature. If you wish to be married by a county clerk, call your local county clerk office to set up an appointment. You must additionally bring two witnesses over the age of 18 and pay an additional fee for the ceremony.

So you lied!

Let us see if you do any better on the subject of polygamy. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural_...g_the_practice

As The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints settled in the Utah Territory, they began to participate in national politics. The general opinion of the rest of the United States was that the practice of plural marriage was offensive. On July 8, 1862, President Abraham Lincoln signed the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Law which forbids the practice in US territories. President Lincoln told the church that he had no intentions of enforcing it if they would not interfere with him, and so the matter was laid to rest for a time. After the Civil War, immigrants to Utah who were not members of the church began contesting for political power. They were frustrated by the consolidation of the members. Forming the Liberal Party, they began pushing for political changes and to weaken the church's advantage in that state. In September of 1871, President Brigham Young was indicted for adultery due to his plural marriages. On January 6, 1879, the Supreme Court upheld the Morrill Act in Reynolds v. United States. The decision was not well-received by the members and leadership of the church.

In February of 1882, George Q. Cannon, a prominent leader in the church, was denied a seat in the House of Representatives due to his polygamous relations. This revived the issue in national politics. One month later, the Edmunds Act was passed, amending the Morrill Act by revoking the right of polygamists to vote or hold office, and allowing them to be punished without due process. Even if people did not practice polygamy, they would have their rights revoked if they confessed a belief in it. In August, Rudge Clawson was imprisoned for having entered into polygamous marriage before the 1862 Morrill Act, which imprisonment was in clear violation of the constitutional ban on ex post facto laws. In 1887, the Edmunds-Tucker act seized control of the church and further extended the punishments of the Edmunds Act of 1882. In July of the same year, the U.S. Attorney General filed a suit to seize the church and all of its assets.

The church had clearly lost control of the territory government, and the members and leaders of the church were being actively pursued as fugitives. Without being able to appear publicly, the leadership was left to navigate underground. President Wilford Woodruff and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued a manifesto in 1890 banning the practice of plural marriage. Although it is still considered correct doctrine, it is no longer sanctioned by the church. This set in motion the restitution of all the rights of the members of the church and the eventual statehood of Utah in 1896.

The aftermath of the issue was exacerbated by rumors that leaders of the church were continuing the practice by sealing more polygamous marriages. Some leaders interpreted the manifesto as allowing polygamy anywhere but in the United States. Others thought it merely pushed the practice underground and out of the eyes of the world. This led to problems in seating B. H. Roberts in the House of Representatives due to his polygamous relations. New accusations of plural marriage and insincerity on the part of the church were made. It also led to the Smoot Hearings wherein Apostle Reed Smoot was challenged upon election to the Senate. During the hearings, President Joseph F. Smith issued the second manifesto in 1904, declaring that any who participated in additional plural marriages, and those officiating, would be excommunicated from the church. Disagreeing with the second manifesto, two apostles (John W. Taylor and Matthias F. Cowley) left the quorum. Taylor was later excommunicated for violating the second manifesto.

The last person to participate in plural marriage with the sanction of the church died in 1974. Since the second manifesto, the church has never sanctioned plural marriages. Those who are caught trying to perform such are excommunicated without question. Today, the church does not teach about plural marriage except to say that it is banned and will be punished with excommunication.

It is a matter of extreme importance that when we make any statement about anyone or their faith, customs, practices, & etc. that we first diligently arm ourself with truth even if it means laying down our prejudices and disengaging from pejoration to do so. How we comply with this standard is a measure of our character.

M:(RGANITE

DrJ · Jun 15, 2006, 11:16 AM

It seems a bit strange to me that a religion would change its ways in order to conform to a governments laws.

Correct me if I am wrong, but according to the teachings of Joseph Smith, there was a purpose in having mulitple wives. Im not sure what that was but I assume it was to populate the world that you will come to rule over as a God.

But then the U.S. says that you can't do that and the Mormons just say okay?

(NOTE: I do not claim to know much about Mormon beliefs or Mormon history and I haven't taken the time to research this... I would rather get the info from people here)

speedball1 · Jun 15, 2006, 11:43 AM

My friend and companion, Teresa Marie, posted a sign on the blackboard next to the front door that says, " NO SOLICITATION! THIS MEANS YOU, BIBLE THUMPER" This covers JW's Mormons and holy Rollers.

magprob · Jun 15, 2006, 05:42 PM

Morganite, you are right, not about me lying but the part about me checking the Utah law. In 1999, when I left Utah, the legal age for a girl to marry was 14. It has changed and I should have updated my info. Thank you for checking me on that. The point I was trying to make is that even at the age of 15, I believe a person is still a child, don't you? There is the rub.

educatedhorse_2005 · Jun 15, 2006, 06:13 PM

DrJizzle It is not uncoomon for churches to change. If they are truly fallowing the teaching of the bible we will leave the book of morman out of this for a minute. In the bible it sates you are supposed to fallow the teachings of the lord and the law of land.
So If you actually following the rules you have to change. Especially sense they made it illegal. Personnally I ain't going to jail. I have one wife and she is enough to handle what would I do with two.

educatedhorse_2005 · Jun 15, 2006, 06:21 PM

Ok mag you are right they can marry at 15. But look at all the stipulations they put on it.
Like I have said before There is FLDS AND RLDS and then LDS. The FLDS has a compound in Idaho. But If you have been watching the news the leader of the FLDS is leader is in the top ten most wanted list. They will find him and end all of the under age marriage and stuff like that.

FLDS stands for The Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints
RLDS stands for Reorganized Latter Day Saints
LDS stands for Latter Day Saints

These are three different churches.

magprob · Jun 15, 2006, 06:47 PM

Morganite, while you research that point of law, I would like to know if you are from Utah?

educatedhorse_2005 · Jun 15, 2006, 06:55 PM

I agree but is not just mormans that need to nurture there families. How many 12-18 old kids are having babies today.

What happened to your hot sauce ad

KyLi22 · May 13, 2007, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Stormy69

Okay I am at my wits end. I was baptised as a mormon at age 9 or 10 because that is what my mother( the hypocrite) wanted.
I was forced to go to church as a child even though at that age I had no real concept of the religion. As I grew up and got married and discovered what the religion was all about, I decided I did not want to be a mormon. They left me alone and I didn't hear from the church for years.
Now since I have moved to a different state and remarried, they have tracked me down and every week for a year there would be some Lds at my door.
I had a home teacher calling me 3 or 4 times a week. I finally made it more than clear that I wanted no part of the LDS, that I did NOT agree with all of their beliefs and I wanted to be taken off any and all phone, mailing and home visiting lists. I flat out said " I denounce the mormon religion"
All was okay for about 6 months,,,, well they are back.
The come to the house EVERY day looking for me, My kids tell them I am at work and then they call... some how I don't have a clue HOW. they got my cellphone # now they are leaving voice messages. I have blocked the numbers, yet they call from a different number every time..
This is flat out harassment as far as I am concerned,,, what do I have to do to make it stop??

Haha, pardon my laughing, but I know the feeling... I have just gone through the teachings, and I feel like they call me almost every day, and if I don't attend church they have to know why...

If they cannot take NO for an answer, I would get a PFA, it IS considered harassment, the phone calls, the visiting, ESP after you have told them no... its even stalkerish.

I, too, am in a predicament to find what the "true" religion is, and I am discomforted by the way SOME, not all, mormons take action to it...

Im sorry you got two idiots... I had two as well, they pushed me to be baptized, even when I wasn't ready and finally a sister in the church told them off, and they were transferred... they are not all like this, I promise you that, some are very radical... I would give them a warning that the police would be contacted if they do not leave you a lone... that should do it :)

Good luck, and contact me if you need me.

Starman · May 15, 2007, 06:15 AM

You know what I consider worse than that? Decades going by without any concern for your eternal welfare being shown and being tagged as spiritually unclean for not attending meetings being treated like an outcast when you do finally show up. To me that would be worse.

Morganite · May 16, 2007, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by magprob

Morganite, while you research that point of law, I would like to know if you are from Utah?

I am not from Utah and have never lived in Utah.

M:)

Morganite · May 16, 2007, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by KyLi22

Haha, pardon my laughing, but i know the feeling... i have just gone through the teachings, and i feel like they call me almost every day, and if i dont attend church they have to know why...

If they cannot take NO for an answer, i would get a PFA, it IS considered harrassment, the phone calls, the visiting, ESP after you have told them no... its even stalkerish.

I, too, am in a predicament to find what the "true" religion is, and i am discomforted by the way SOME, not all, mormons take action to it...

Im sorry you got two idiots... I had two as well, they pushed me to be baptized, even when i wasnt ready and finally a sister in the church told them off, and they were transferred... they are not all like this, i promise you that, some are very radical... i would give them a warning that the police would be contacted if they do not leave you a lone... that should do it :)

Good luck, and contact me if you need me.

You do not have to go to such extremes. Unless you have formally requested in writing thast your name be expunged from the membership records of the church it will remain on and you will show up as a member on congregational lists. Write to your local bishop - you will find him in your telephone book - and make out a polite request stating your reasons and requesting no further contact. That should take care of it.

The only further contact you are liklely to get is from missionaries who do not have any idea who lives beghind your front oor. If you wish them not to call, politely inform them that you are not interested, say "Good day to you," and close the door.

This works with all kinds of evangelical ministers, magazine salepersons, Girl Scout Cookie divas, foks who want to spray you for insect infestation, cut your lawn, fix your roof, etc. The polite refusal is one of the most basic of civilsed interactions and unless you get an escapee from a high security prison at your door it will almost always do the tritk.

Your relationship with your mother is disturbing. Perhaps when you mature you can work on that one.

Good luck.

M:)RGANITE

Morganite · May 31, 2007, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Stormy69

I put up a sign on my gate that says" NO TRESPASSING, NO PEDDLERS, NO MORMONS" still they come in the yard.. Legally it is my mother in laws property so I can not enforce the trespass..

Just say, "No thank you." Practise in front of a mirror. :)

M:)

Guest · Apr 2, 2008, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by Stormy69

Okay I am at my wits end. I was baptised as a mormon at age 9 or 10 because that is what my mother( the hypocrite) wanted.
I was forced to go to church as a child even though at that age I had no real concept of the religion. As I grew up and got married and discovered what the religion was all about, I decided I did not want to be a mormon. They left me alone and I didn't hear from the church for years.
Now since I have moved to a different state and remarried, they have tracked me down and every week for a year there would be some Lds at my door.
I had a home teacher calling me 3 or 4 times a week. I finally made it more than clear that I wanted no part of the LDS, that I did NOT agree with all of their beliefs and I wanted to be taken off any and all phone, mailing and home visiting lists. I flat out said " I denounce the mormon religion"
All was okay for about 6 months,,,, well they are back.
The come to the house EVERY day looking for me, My kids tell them I am at work and then they call... some how I don't have a clue HOW. they got my cellphone # now they are leaving voice messages. I have blocked the numbers, yet they call from a different number every time..
This is flat out harassment as far as I am concerned,,, what do I have to do to make it stop??

You can have your name removed from the membership of the church. Just ask to talk to the Bishop about that.

Fr_Chuck · Apr 7, 2008, 05:55 PM

First the OP posted this almost 2 years ago, and to be honest I truly doubt that it was even true at that time. Most likely merely posted as a LDS hate type post like those against many groups.

I have never known the LDS to mistreat anyone, and if you ask them not to bother you , they will not. In fact they are great about helping so many people with looking up their family tree. And their missionaries are wonderful young people. I normally offer them something to drink or even eat if they come around, I may not believe their specific doctrine but that doesnot mean we can not show love to all.

So with that said, I am going to close this thread, since mainly it was started 2 years ago, and lastly I think it was most likely started under false pretense.