[mygirlsdad77]

Gas fireplace. Simple setup, has one power pile, one thermocouple.. As far as I know, the thermocouple is strictly for keeping pilot lit. Power pile provides millivolt to let gas main valve open. Pilot will light when holding in knob, hold for one minute, let off knob, pilot goes out. So only possible problems are thermocoulple or gas valve, correct? Have replaced thermocouple (twice just to double check, even though I have never had a bad new thermocouple. This fireplace is brand new install, has never been fired. You know and I know that the only reason for the pilot not staying lit(other than bad thermocouple) is a defective gas valve,( there are no other limits connected to gas valve) The only reason I ask for any other ideas here, is because my supplier wants to know what is wrong with the gas valve before they will send me a new one. I install these things on a regular basis. Think I know when I have a bad gas valve. But I also learn knew things every day , so if there is anyone who thinks it may be something other than the thermocouple or gas valve, please let me know.

[ballengerb1]

They are just jerking you around. Tell them you don't know what is wrong with THEIR equipment and if they don't help you you'll take the whole dang thing back to Home Depot or whatever. I put a ventless one in last year and it was fine for a month and then acted up. By the way, don't consider ventless but that's another story. Majestic wasn't helpful on my first call but they perked up when I said I still had my receipt and would return THEIR unit.

[T-Top]

Two questions. Is the flame of the pilot strong and hitting the thermocouple and is your system using a limit switch so if the flame or heat temp is not right the milivolts is killed to let you know you have a problem. All gas appliance have to have limits installed.

[mygirlsdad77]

They are just jerking you around. Tell them you don't know what is wrong with THEIR equipment and if they don't help you you'll take the whole dang thing back to Home Depot or whatever. I put a ventless one in last year and it was fine for a month and then acted up. By the way, don't consider ventless but thats another story. Majestic wasn't helpful on my first call but they perked up when I said I still had my receipt and would return THEIR unit.

I actually get these fireplaces through one of my plumbing suppliers. Then when there is a problem I have to go directly to the fire place manufacturer. They tend to think that I'm some dumbass that doesn't know how these units work. The fact is, I am trying to make my customer happy , and I'm getting jerked around by the supplier and manufacturer. I know it's the gas valve. Ive been around the block a few times and unless someone can give me alternate possible problems, I'm going to chew some on my supplier and the manufacturer.

Ok I'm done venting. Oh wait. As far as ventless fireplaces go, they are not allowed(under code) in my state, therefore I won't sell, install, or service them.

[T-Top]

Sorry I step on your toes, just trying to help. Good luck with your project.

[mygirlsdad77]

Two questions. Is the flame of the pilot strong and hitting the thermocouple and is your system using a limit switch so if the flame or heat temp is not right the milivolts is killed to let you know you have a problem. All gas appliance have to have limits installed.

Yes, strong flame on thermocouple,(even hit it with a torch just for fun) . If there were a limit switch, wouldn't it just kill power to the main valve, not the pilot valve? I believe that the thermocouple is the only thing that regulates the pilot on this particular unit. All limits and main valve control is done through power pile (millivolt)side of system. Please let me know if I'm wrong. I have always wondered about the internal wiring and workings of a gas valve with both thermocouple and powerpile, I would love to learn something new today.

T-Top

You are asking great questions, I really am looking for advice such as yours, you aren't stepping on my toes at all. Please give me any advice you think will help. Im not only hear to help, Im here to learn. The more I can learn the more I can help others.

[T-Top]

The way to salve the problem is to read the millivolts at the thermopile and at the gas valve, if you have the volts needed to operate the gas valve at the gas valve and its not working than yes I would say you have a bad gas valve. If the millivolts needed to close the gas valve is leaving the thermopile but not getting to the valve you have a interrupted circuit. Look for around 750mv to work.

[ballengerb1]

I now wish Illinois have a ban on ventless, its junk.

[mygirlsdad77]

The way to salve the problem is to read the millivolts at the thermopile and at the gas valve, if you have the volts needed to operate the gas valve at the gas valve and its not working than yes I would say you have a bad gas valve. If the millivolts needed to close the gas valve is leaving the thermopile but not getting to the valve you have a interrupted circuit. Look for around 750mv to work.

The gas valve in question has a powerpile,themopile(750mv) and a thermocouple. The way I see it(and I may be wrong) the thermocouple (0n this particular valve) is strictly for maintaining pilot flame. And the powerpile (thermopile) is used strictly for mv operation of main burners. I don't know why these new fireplaces have both a powerpile and a thermocouple(probably just to hike prices and make replacement parts harder to get) but they do. I remember when there was either a thermocouple, or a powerpile and things were simple to work on. Gone are these days. Please let me know if you believe the pilot problem on this system is due to the thermocouple,(or gas valve in this instance, since I have ruled out thermocouple) or is there a chance that the powerpile may somehow override pilot part of the gas valve.

[hoossbigs]

Most likely the stove in question is a direct vent unit. Theromcouple also called a quick drop out on some valves. Main reason for thermo couple is a safety issue for direct vent stoves. No spill switch manual safety overide. However for your problem if you have over 600 mv @ red white T-pile windings valve will open, however, a bad connection @ the phllips will drop out milli's. 600 mv and no valve magneto opening would surely be faulty valve.

[mygirlsdad77]

Yes, direct vent. Are you saying that the t-pile windings can cause the pilot not to stay lit. I was told the thermocouple stictly controlled pilot, and t-pile controlled burners(mainvalve). I can't even to get the pilot to stay lit, therefore the main burner won't come on(of course).

Just to double check,, on a direct vent fireplace,, can the power pile (or connections) cause the pilot to not stay lit? If so, can you give me more info as to how these gas valves work, would be greatly appreciated. Even my supplier told me that nothing controls the pilot but the thermocouple, but never has fully trusted suppliers when it came to troubleshooting what they sell. They just sell them, never have to work on them.

[hoossbigs]

[QUOTE=mygirlsdad77;1345592]yes, direct vent. Are you saying that the t-pile windings can cause the pilot not to stay lit. I was told the thermocouple stictly controlled pilot, and t-pile controlled burners(mainvalve). I can't even to get the pilot to stay lit, therefore the main burner won't come on(of course).

Just to double check,, on a direct vent fireplace,, can the power pile (or connections) cause the pilot to not stay lit? If so, can you give me more info as to how these gas valves work, would be greatly appreciated. Even my supplier told me that nothing controls the pilot but the thermocouple, but never has fully trusted suppliers when it came to troubleshooting what they sell. They just sell them, never have to work on them.[/

No the thermocouple is the only source to keep the pilot lit. If you want to check your valve there are easy ways to perform this. You most likely have a Robert Shaw valve, however, you may have a SIT. I don't know what Manufac.. you have but Travis has a great website on testing both valve types. All you need is a mult meter with ohms. Go to this website http://www.travisbuilder.com/TravisD...s_ts_guide.pdf just as typed and if your dealer wants proof then you can give proof. I feel sorry for you, I am a stove technician and believe me there are many valves that come from factory faulty. My company gives a 90 day warranty on all stoves self installed or contracted. Up to 100 miles. If I was you I would express my concern on how they run their business. From the sounds of it they won't be around long. Hope this helps

[mygirlsdad77]

hoossbigs, thanks for the input. I finally got time to go look at another identical unit that I had installed about a year ago. I knew (or was pretty sure that I knew) that on this gas valve the thermocouple controlled only pilot. But I decided to double check. Went to the previously installed unit and unhooked all thermostat and power pile wires from gas valve, just to make sure the pilot would stay lit without the powerpile connected to the system, and of course it stays lit. This reafirmed my original prognosis. Which is faulty gas valve(since I have tried two new thermocouple and still won't stay lit). The gas valve is now in the mail. Thanks for everyone's thoughts and suggestions on this one.

[ballengerb1]

Glad you stuck to your guns.

[mygirlsdad77]

Just a little bored. Looking though old questions I had asked. Then I saw this one and realized I never did post the outcome. I remember this situation like it was yesterday, and in fact, the fix was a new gas valve.