[holdfast1]

I have a 14hp OHV Murray riding mower. When I turn the key I got no response. Battery is new and voltmeter reads 12.4. I first tested the solenoid by jumping the terminals. (Meter reads 12.4 at battery side of solenoid as well) This made the starter turn sluggishly or just bump the flywheel, and only once out of ten did it turn enough to crank but did not.
I then took a jumper cable from the battery straight to the post on the starter. I got some response but still sluggish and random bump then nothing like when I jumped the solenoid. Thinking I have a bad starter I took to an auto parts store and let them test. The starter spun like a top??
To be certain I have replaced the solenoid and switch and cleaned all connections. Now when I turn the switch I got the same sluggish response (like a dead battery) and then absolutely nothing. When I try to jump the new solenoid I got a slight turn at first and now nothing either. I thought maybe a bad safety switch but wouldn't it start just jumping the terminals on the solenoid if that was the case?
I have heard that these OHV models sometime need adjustment that can cause starting problems? I pulled the starter off the flywheel to see if it might be too much load from the engine and might turn freely. Starter would not turn at all. When I pulled from the block did I remove the ground or does this mean I do have a bad starter? Please help

I also just jumped my truck to the starter to make sure it was getting enough juice. At first nothing just some sparking, On the fourth try the engine turn like normal enough to start

[Stratmando]

How are your Grounds?

[holdfast1]

I cleaned the battery to frame ground, the ground on the solenoid, are there any others? I only saw the positive cable to the starter and assume it grounds to the block with its bolted connections? If I'm getting 12.4v on the meter aren't my grounds good? Thanks for your help

[holdfast1]

I also just jumped my truck to the starter to make sure it was getting enough juice. At first nothing just some sparking, On the fourth try the engine turn like normal enough to start. I tried again and it would turn over randomly

[Stratmando]

I would say If you are connecting Directly from a good batter with good voltage, and it is intermittent, it IS starter. If you can measure voltages at different points,(into solenoid, out of solenoid with a load, and at starter,
If not turning over with solid voltage, then maybe motor has excessive resistance?
Try removing all plugs, inspect, try turning over while plugs are removed(to eleminate compression).

[jsfocke]

I have heard that these OHV models sometime need adjustment that can cause starting problems?

Since the valve adjustment is relatively free I would suggest doing it just to rule it out. It's not a difficult job, it needs to be done periodically anyway and depending on how hard it is to get your hood off to access the valve cover you can do it in minutes to a around an hour.

If the adjustment doesn't do it then the starter sounds like the problem. I haven't priced one myself but I've heard they are around $60.00. That's why I'd do the adjustment first.

[holdfast1]

I pulled the plug and still nothing. I'm sure the valves need adjustment and I will do that but think this narrows it to the starter. At least it better be after I pay to replace. Will let you know. Thanks again

[holdfast1]

One more questions before I fork out the cash for a new starter. If its bad why did it spin like crazy at the auto parts store? Were they giving it more voltage than normal conditions to make it spin? When starters go bad do they die completely or could it still work randomly?

[Stratmando]

The Starter at the store likely had no load. If the Engine is seized or binding for some reason, starter may not turn engine over?
Accurate voltage testing(while cranking) may help determine starter or not.

[holdfast1]

OK I did the following test for voltage:
-Now keep the ground on the negative side of battery
-follow positive cable to the solenoid and hook volt meter on the cable going TO the starter coming from the opposite side of the solenoid.
Turn key to "start" position you should have 12 + volts

YES-Check the same way on the starter motor where the cable FROM solenoid connects, If less or no voltage then cables or connections bad, If good voltage then starter is bad

NO- Take positive lead from volt meter to small wire going to solenoid and test for 12 Volts with key in the "start" position, If no voltage to small wire safety switch is telling it not to crank or ignition switch is bad (rare) If it does have voltage the solenoid needs replacing (common)

When I turned the key to start I got nothing at the small wire from the switch to the solenoid and nothing at the post on the starter side of the solenoid or at the starter. This makes me think it is a safety switch.
BUT when I jump the solenoid or put direct power to the starter it still doesn't do anything. Shouldn't it crank if it was a switch. Last thing I got was just a slow turn not enough to spin the gear up the helix

I tried jumping all the safety switches but didn't help. The clutch and blade safety's have 4 wires into them. I jumped the similar colors going into these, orange-orange yellow-yellow. Should all 4 of these be jumped together?

I would think the chances of having a bad starter AND a bad safety or very rare. Any other ideas? Very frustrating

[holdfast1]

Also set valves to .004intake and .006exhaust. Flywheel turns by hand no seizing

[holdfast1]

Could there be a ground I haven't found? How do you test a ground besides disconnecting, cleaning, and retightening. I'm mechanically enclined but no electrician by any means

[Stratmando]

If it turns over with Jumper ground on starter, and not at Battery ground terminal, it IS a ground problem.
I should have mentioned earlier the Dangers of Jumping Starter, Safetys are many times bypassed, but extra caution needs you to secure vehicle so it will not move forward or engage blade.
Take Care

[jsfocke]

Take your jumper cables and hook one black end on your mower's negative battery post and the other black end to the engine block or starter body somewhere. Not on the post of the starter. Don't hook up the red cables at all. That will bypass all the grounding of the mower itself and let you know if that is the problem. I hope that is it. It would be a cheap fix.

[holdfast1]

Finally some progress! But nothing definite unfortunately. I grounded with the jumpers like you said. The starter turned slowly, engine turned over but not fast enough to crank. Tried it again and nothing and the solenoid only clicked loudly when I turned the key, starter moves centimeters? What now?

Side questions--when I jump the grounds shouldn't that bypass all the safety switches? I still had to sit on seat, push in clutch to crank. Just curious

[holdfast1]

One more thing that made me think it was a ground--my headlights don't even come on when the switch is on, bubls are good, even put meter leads on them and nothing.

I have checked grounds at battery and solenoid. Battery is good, put +lead on battery terminal and -lead on block, read 12.5v
To test the ground at the solenoid I put +lead on battery side of solenoid and -lead to ground wire terminal which read 12.5v, good right?
However when I put -lead to top of screw that secures ground lead to solenoid and frame I get no reading. Is this normal? Shouldn't it be grounded as well?

[jsfocke]

Yes it should/could be grounded as well. If you have a solenoid with only three posts then it should be grounded. If it has four posts then it could be grounded but doesn't have to because the solenoid gets it's ground through one of the small wires to make it work.

But, it sounds to me like your ground problem is in the main ground wire from the battery. One of the crimped ends may have corrosion between the wire and the end. If you have enough cable to cut off the ends and replace them I think I would try that.

[holdfast1]

jsfocke,
Thanks I have a 3 post solenoid that is grounded through the frame via the mounting screw.
I will try cutting the battery leads and reattaching. But if I can get a 12.5v reading on my meter by placing the -lead on the (-)battery post and +lead on the battery side of the solenoid, doesn't that mean my main ground is good? Or no? I can also place the -lead on the wire terminal where it attaches at the frame and get 12.5v
I thought maybe I have a wire shorting out somewhere. Does it sound like that could be the issue? The only way I know to check is visually inspect for cuts and then maybe a continuity test on entire harness?

[jsfocke]

But if I can get a 12.5v reading on my meter by placing the -lead on the (-)battery post and +lead on the battery side of the solenoid, doesn't that mean my main ground is good? or no?

No, that just means that your positive cable is good to the solenoid.

I can also place the -lead on the wire terminal where it attaches at the frame and get 12.5v
I thought maybe I have a wire shorting out somewhere. Does it sound like that could be the issue? The only way I know to check is visually inspect for cuts and then maybe a continuity test on entire harness?

I would attach your meter on the cable at the ground to the frame. If it is good like you say then I would move it to the frame nearby somewhere. If it is good there then just keep going and trying it on other components that should be grounded. If it isn't good at the frame near where the ground attaching then we've found the problem. The frame and terminal at that connection need to be cleaned and maybe you'll be back in business.

[Stratmando]

I wonder if the Solenoid is bad, The Big contacts, they can get pitted, burned.
Since the solenoid is grounded frame, a jump from the big positive on Solenoid from battery battery, should work, If not then connect a wire(#12 or #14) and connect from battery ground to solenoid frame.