[orange]

This question is for people who believe in hell, obviously. Are there different degrees of suffering in hell, or is it the same amount of suffering for everyone who goes there? Why I ask is because it seems rather unfair that everyone should face the same punishment. Take murder, for example. Say someone goes to hell for murdering one person in a fit of rage. Should they have the same punishment as say, a Hitler or an Idi Amin (who were responsible for the murders of millions of people) would have?

[educatedhorse_2005]

I think there are different degrees of hell.
I believe it just depends on why you were sent there

[31pumpkin]

I think there is only one degree of hell or one hell. The Bible does say that if one's name isn't written in the Book of Life then they will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Now the murder you mentioned, may or may not go to hell. If he confesses and repents of his sin (basically changes) then the Lord would judge that man's heart and repentance accordingly. He could very well be saved.

The thing is with Hitler, he had long been possessed by Satanic spirit.
He was so far away from the Lord that he wouldn't be able to communicate with God any more.
:cool:

[talaniman]

I think we humans make our own heaven or hell right now as we live. I have no clue what happens after we die, but I do know the choices we make on this earth either make us happy or sad and all that is in between. :cool:

[orange]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses. Pumpkin, I was just using murder as an example. I guess my point was, some people are always going to commit worse sins that others, so it doesn't seem fair that both receive the same punishment. But I guess hell is more than just a punishment for sin, it's also the result of rejecting G-d.

[aqua@home]

I think there might not be different degrees of hell as there might be different degrees of heaven. Everyone can be forgiven of almost everything except the one unforgivable sin. Which I believe is the rejection of God. However I don't think it's fair for someone like Ted Bundy to go to the same heaven as me. Not that I am perfect. If we use our judgement and live a life as close to what God wants, He will decide and we will be judged accordingly. The question for me is what type of sin is bad enough for a different degree of heaven? Isn't cheating just as bad as anything else? Adultery is in the commandments yet so many people don't follow that one. I know the bible talks about different degrees of glory and different kingdoms in I Corinthians, chapter 15. I hope this helps. Take care.

[DrJ]

Doesn't the Bible teach us that sin is sin... that no sin is worse or better than another?

[jduke44]

This is totally my opinion. I haven't researched anything like this in a long time. I think there might be different degrees of Hell even though God looks at every sin the same.

[DrJ]

So if there are different degrees of Hell, wouldn't there be different degrees of Heaven, as well?

[valinors_sorrow]

I believe in hell Chava, but it may not match the hell other people believe in or exactly what you had in mind but I hope this is okay. If not, stop reading here? :o

The hell I know is here on earth - It was visited a few times against my will (shares a ptsd past with you) and now as a part of what I am routinely asked to do here.

I don't know that this particular hell comes in degrees, or even that its designed to punish anyone - the specific circumstances of it vary greatly. But I do know without question that all human suffering is equal. Pain is pain in any language. And some of the worst pain is self inflicted because its so hard to fathom.

I acquired an understanding one day that we each are ultimately held accountable for our actions (both good and bad). How I come by that is tougher to explain but it is an almost unshakable belief when very few of my beliefs are that solid. This accounting appears to me as absolutely unavoidable so I have long ago let go of any concern that "they are getting away with it". I know they aren't and so therefore neither am I.

Better to concentrate now on making heaven on earth instead too. :)

[talaniman]

I believe in hell Chava, but it may not match the hell other people believe in or exactly what you had in mind but I hope this is okay. If not, stop reading here? :o

The hell I know is here on earth - It was visited a few times against my will (shares a ptsd past with you) and now as a part of what I am routinely asked to do here.

I don't know that this particular hell comes in degrees, or even that its designed to punish anyone - the specific circumstances of it vary greatly. But I do know without question that all human suffering is equal. Pain is pain in any language. And some of the worst pain is self inflicted because its so hard to fathom.

I acquired an understanding one day that we each are ultimately held accountable for our actions (both good and bad). How I come by that is tougher to explain but it is an almost unshakable belief when very few of my beliefs are that solid. This accounting appears to me as absolutely unavoidable so I have long ago let go of any concern that "they are getting away with it". I know they aren't and so therefore neither am I.

Better to concentrate now on making heaven on earth instead too. :)

I agree, We have a choice in how we live!:cool:

[jduke44]

DrJizzle, yes I think there are differnet degrees in Hevaen also. Well, maybe not degrees but more rankings. Having your rewards in Heaven (good works) weighed with your unconfessed sin on earth. Does that make sense?

[DrJ]

Yeah, that makes sense. So is it measured in degrees of happiness? Or just status?

In other words, those who confess ALL sin will have a more enjoyale Eternal Life or will be a more glorified Eternal Life?

[jduke44]

Degrees of status. I think all in Heaven will be happy no matter what they are doing. It'll be a totally different state than here on earth.

[DrJ]

Hmmmm... that's interesting. I have never actually considered that before. Wouldn't someone be able to say then that God loves me more than He loves you? Because one has a higher status? Or, if not, what would be the possible purpose of having status in Heaven? Is it more in terms of hierarchy?

[jduke44]

I think so. But we wouldn't think of it in those terms. I am not sure what the purpose of that would be. It would in terms of hierarchy. I think it would be just like Paul says in the bible that were are different members in one body, and we aren't think of each other as better than the other. The foot wouldn't do the same as the hand. Someone said on another post it may have been you that we really don't know what it would be like in Heaven. Yes, the bible gives us an idea but I don't think we would even be able to comprehend the awesomeness of Heaven. :)

[DrJ]

That makes sense! Good analogy.

So on the other hand, would degrees in Hell be on the same level? As a hand is to the foot.. or in that case, would it be more on the terms of more suffering vs less suffering

[Morganite]

Are there different degrees of suffering in hell, or is it the same amount of suffering for everyone who goes there? Why I ask is because it seems rather unfair that everyone should face the exact same punishment.

To believe that all the righteous go to heaven, and all the wicked go to hell is to draw a distinct line between everyone and send some to the right and some to the left. Some to destruction and torment, and some to shining glory. This kind of division of juidgement cannot proceed from a God who is superlatively just. It is not just to condemn all the same punishment for different degtrees of wickedness, neither is it just that all will receive equal glory for different degrees of righteousness.

But in the clamor to have some system to point at, men have devised a judicial system redolent of the worst despots and delivered it into the hands and mouth of the mighty Jehovah.

Jesus said unto His disciples, "In my Father's house are many mansions, if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you, and I will come and receive you to myself, that where I am ye may be also."

With the undertanding that it is God and God alone who will pass judgement on all of us, let us turn to consider the scriptures for a moment. The penitent malefactor said Jesus, 'Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom.' And Jesus said unto him, 'Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in Paradise.'"

From this statement some have taken it for granted that the thief on the cross received full and complete salvation. Some have taught the murderer in the felon's cell to confess Christ and all would be well with him; and as the hangman drew the bolt and let the culprit swing into eternity, the minister has stood close by and said, "The Lord Jesus receive thy soul."

On the other hand, the poor victim of the assassin has been cut off without time to confess Christ, and the same doctrine which wafts the murderer to the courts of glory consigns the victim to the flames of hell. Is it possible that Christ ever taught such a heinous doctrine? NO!

The question is, where did he go? If not to heaven, then the paradise named and heaven are two different places. Let the Scriptures speak for themselves. Three days after the crucifixion the Savior came forth a resurrected being, and as Mary met Him at the tomb, He said to her, "Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father."

Thus we have from His own lips that He had not ascended to the Father; and if He had not, neither had the thief. If no further light than this could be found in the Bible this would be sufficient to show that the malefactor did not go to heaven, for where Jesus went the thief went, for that was the promise. Where, then, did the Lord go?

Turn to I Peter 3:18-21, and the question is answered: "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the Spirit: By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometimes were disobedient when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah."

This makes it plain that the paradise referred to was the prison house, to which place Jesus went and opened up a dispensation of the Gospel to the dead. The next chapter, 6th verse, says: "For for this cause was the Gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

The thief went to a place of confinement to wait until the justice of God was satisfied and mercy stepped in and claimed her own. The difference between the penitent malefactor and the antediluvians was that the former immediately went to a place where Christ would present to him the plan of life, that day, while the latter had waited hundreds of years for that privilege. This shows that repentance brings its blessings even upon the deathbed; but to say that, after a life of sin, the malefactor went straight to the abode of the Father and remained there in glory, is in conflict with the teachings of Christ and Peter.

The statements of Peter relative to the mission of Christ to the spirits in prison throws light upon the saying of the Savior in St. John 5:25, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live."

Thus we see the privileges of the penitent malefactor. He went to the prison house and heard the Gospel, but how long he remained there before receiving all the saving benefits of the Gospel, we are not told. One thing is certain—he did not come back with the Messiah, nor have we ever heard of him sitting down with Christ on the right hand of the Father.

The opposite of salvation is damnation, and just as there are varying degrees and kinds of salvation, so there are degrees and kinds of damnation. There is a "greater damnation" (Matt. 23:14) and, thus, obviously, a lesser damnation.

That part of the spirit world inhabited by wicked spirits who are awaiting the eventual day of their resurrection is called hell. But, Hell will have an end. Viewing future events, John saw that "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." (Rev. 20:13.)

As we have seen, Jesus taught his disciples: "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." (John 14:2) If there were but one heaven, and all who go there would share and share alike, how inconsistent for Jesus to even suggest going to prepare a place for his disciples, and then to add, "In my Father's house are many mansions."

Since, therefore, there are many mansions in his Father's house, it is well that we give consideration to them. The apostle Paul informed us that he knew a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven. A careful reading of this scripture will reveal the fact that Paul himself was that man: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (2 Corinthians 12:2-4.)

It is obvious that there could not be a third heaven unless there is also a first and a second heaven. We therefore have three heavens, paradise, and the hell so often spoken of in the scriptures, making at least five places to which we may go after death. Paul gave a most wonderful description of the resurrection:

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead.. . (1 Corinthians 15:40-42.)

What could be plainer? There is a glory of the sun, or celestial glory; another glory like the moon, or the terrestrial glory; and another glory like the stars, or, as we will learn, the telestial glory; and since "one star differeth from another star in glory," so also "is the resurrection of the dead." From this we learn that the great multitude in the resurrection will be likened unto the stars in heaven; and just as their works have differed in importance and faithfulness here upon the earth, so also shall their condition in the resurrection differ, even as the stars in heaven differ in glory.

The Holy Bible generalizes the future estate of the righteous as heaven, and the opposite as hell, without giving warrant, however, for the belief that but two places or kingdoms are provided, to one or the other of which every soul is to be consigned according to the balance-sheet of his life's account, and perhaps on a very small margin of merit or guilt. Equally unscriptural is the inference that the state of the soul at death determines that soul's place and environment throughout eternity.

When left to his imagination, without the guidance of heaven, man conjures up & heaven and a hell to suit his fancy. Thus, to the mind of the uninspired, heaven is a hunting-ground with game a-plenty; to the carnal, heaven promises perpetual gratification of senses and passions; to the lover of truth and the devotee of righteousness, heaven is the assurance of limitless advancement in wisdom and achievement. And to each of these, hell is the eternal realization of deprivation, loss, disappointment and consequent anguish.

Divine revelation is the only source of sure knowledge as to what awaits man beyond the grave, and from this we learn that at death the spirits of all men pass to an intermediate state, in which they associate with their kind, the good with the good, the wicked with the wicked, and so shall endure in happiness or awful suspense until the time appointed for their resurrection. Paradise is the dwelling place of relatively righteous spirits awaiting the glorious dawn of the resurrection.

The final judgment, at which all men shall appear before the bar of God, is to follow their resurrection from the dead. We shall stand in our resurrected bodies of flesh and bones to receive from Jesus Christ, who shall judge the world, the sentence we individually merit, whether it be "Come ye blessed of my Father" or "Depart from me ye cursed." (See Matt. 25:31-46.)

Until then, we can take hope that the choices are not as stark as some believe them to be, and as they would have us believe them to be.




M:)RGANITE

[31pumpkin]

Morganite -

Thank you for your gifts of knowledge, wisdom and prophecy.

I just wanted to ask whether John 5:25 could represent a Pergatory state?

But also, in Rev.20:12-15, The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So according to that scripture, I don't see an end to Hell.

Also I had always believed what my aunt said from her years of walking with the Lord and attending services. She always said our loved ones that died in Christ were in Heaven with their soul and spirit. And there's coming a day, when the Lord comes in Glory and we will even be reunited with our bodies in heaven.

I had heard that what I think you refer to as paradise as the 3rd heaven and higher. The Heaven where God and Jesus reside is the 7th heaven.
Paul could very well have had the revelation before or after his conversion.

Even at this present time there is more or less warfare going on in the lower heavenlies. This one of the obstructions to prayer. Sometimes Christians must settle the battle in the heavenlies before intercession can take place. Interferences do take place sometimes, and they must be dealt with, if there's any hope of a positive outcome.

So any remarks about the permanency of Hell? A Pergatory?

[jduke44]

So on the other hand, would degrees in Hell be on the same level? As a hand is to the foot.. or in that case, would it be more on the terms of more suffering vs less suffering

I think there might be. I might have to look this up and research it. I know this discussion has caused me to think. What do you think?