[mauj]

We agree the OP spent their time foolishly. However, I don't think they're being "punished" by the court; they knew the situation was important enough that they asked for a public defender. Why they waited 2 months to even pose the question is beyond you, me or anyone else on this board.

Should the OP have counsel? Absolutely. As you pointed out, that is their Constitutional right. On the other side of the coin, I don't think it's right that taxpayers' money should be spent having one hearing after the other just because the OP is dragging their feet. They were given time to act and they chose not to.

But that's just me :)

8384 you are getting on my nerves with your negative remark. Go back to my first post and read from there. The reason I've just now started posting on this site is because I just found it surfing on the net and no I am not draging my feet I called many attorneys to see if they would help me but they all wanted 1,500 to 3,000 to take the case ONCE AGAIN I DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY. From day one I told the courts I needed a public defender but when you have a smart a** judge that thinks that everybodys well off like he is then its OK for him to dog me out just because I am poor when you have no one on your side to fight for you then you are easy pray for the courts to have their way with you and I think that's wrong.

[mauj]

Ask for a continuance, postpone court date. Explain that you know nothing about what is going on with the case and that you NEED legal help. Also explain that you are working on geting the proper documentation proving that you are poor.
On that note, I dont understand how a court can try you while denying you legal help, that being your RIGHT here in the United States....

hello arron602 I did ask the courts for legal help but was turned down due to the fact I cuuld"nt show tax returns for the last 4 years but... like I explain before if the state of Texas gives me food stamps and cash assistance and then the courts should see that I need a public defender.

[mauj]

Again, the Court did not deny her legal assistance. It denied her FREE legal assistance because she either doesn't qualify OR can't prove that she does.

Everyone who walks into a Courtroom is not assigned a FREE Attorney. Not everyone qualifies.

Yes, she NEEDS an Attorney - one she may very well have to pay for.

You need grounds for a continuance, a postponement. This has been going on since July. The Judge is probably up to here with the whole "free Attorney" argument.

Continuing to post the same wrong legal information does not make it correct legal information.

helo judy how? Can I prove to the courts that I am poor and can"t afford an attorney when the courts won"t allow me to show them my paperwork from the walfare office, stating that I get public assistance I don't have the 4 years of tax returns I only have the one from when I filled bankrupt seven years ago but I do have my walfare papers. By the way when I filled out out the papers from the courts asking if I needed a public defender I checked the box (yes) no where on that paperwork it said that I would have to show 4 years of tax returns in order to get a public defender. It asked if I needed assistance which is yes! Someone posted why did I wait two month to post like, I said it was because I just found this site an I also had been looking to see if I could afford an attorney not sitting on my a** but.. when you got no money what do you do?

[mauj]

My point exactly. The OP has never once been told that s/he will not be allowed legal representation. Instead, the OP squandered the time that they were given to provide proof of income, or lack thereof, which would entitle them to a public defender. And as I said, the court is not going to wait until the OP decides to start being more responsible; if they did, then they'd have to make that exception for every person who walked in through the doors and nothing would ever get accomplished.

My apologies to Ex but I just don't see this as a case of being "railroaded." While it may be true in a few or in a majority of cases, it's not in this one. The OP neglected to follow the court's guidelines and is now paying the price for it.

hello 8384 mauj here! After reading your post I have to disagree with you on everything you quoted for one I did not squandered time I did look for legal help. I did ask if I could submit my public assistance papers into court I was denied and this was just the second court date so what do you mean the court gave me enough time when in fact I asked for a public defender the first court date and was turned down just because I did"t have 4 years of my tax returns but.... i did let the court know that i was on public assistance but was told it was to late to submit anything to the court and to be ready for trial next court date.now you tell me who"s being railroaded. The state of Texas gives me tanf which stand for temporely assistance for need familys that means that I am below the poverty line so why don"t you think this would"nt be good enough for the courts to see that I need a public defender I don't have 4 years of tax returns.

[JudyKayTee]

helo judy how? can i prove to the courts that i am poor and can"t afford an attorney when the courts won"t allow me to show them my paperwork from the walfare office, stating that i get public assistance i don"t have the 4 years of tax returns i only have the one from when i filled bankrupt seven years ago but i do have my walfare papers. by the way when i filled out out the papers from the courts asking if i needed a public defender i checked the box (yes) no where on that paperwork it said that i would have to show 4 years of tax returns in order to get a public defender. it asked if i needed assistance which is yes! someone posted why did i wait two month to post like, i said it was because i just found this site an i also had been looking to see if i could afford an attorney not sittin on my a** but.. when you got no money what do you do?

I didn't disagree with you or criticize your situation - I was disagreeing with Aaron who thought you could simply walk into the Courtroom and ask for a continuance without grounds or despite the fact that Judge has already said you need to provide tax returns.

I never said you were sitting around doing nothing - I said the Judge at the moment doesn't want to hear it. He wants proof - and, no, I don't know how you get around that.

[excon]

Hello again, mauj:

Apparently, justice is NOT available in the court you happen to be in. As I said earlier, that's not news in Texas.

The only way I know how to get around a judge who is bound and determined to deny you your Constitutional rights, and consequently CONVICT you, is to appeal his decision to another court.

I reiterate again, that you say to the court, the following words: "I cannot continue without legal counsel. I request AGAIN, that you appoint a lawyer for me".

In order to preserve your appeal rights, you MUST get these words into the court record! Don't argue with the judge. Don't argue your case. If they put on your case, as I suspect they will, every single time they come to you for a remark or a defense, say those words again, and say NOTHING else.

Whatever you say isn't going to matter to THIS judge in any case, so say nothing. The very day you're finally convicted, hand write a letter to the court stating that your Constitutional right to counsel has been denied, and you hereby, appeal that decision. In your letter ask the court to consider your letter to be a notice of appeal OR a motion to reconsider. Ask them also, to appoint a lawyer to represent you in the appeal.

File your letter with the clerk of court THAT DAY. Send a copy to the prosecutors office, send one to the public defenders office, and send one to the judge.

Hopefully, justice will be available to you in the appellate courts.

excon

[this8384]

I'm sorry if you felt I was being negative. However, I gave my opinion based on the information that was provided by none other than yourself.

You initially posted on 9/6/08 that your first hearing had taken place on 7/9/08.

i went to court on july , 9 2008 and was told that if wanted a public definder i would have to show the court 4 years of my tax returns.

After being advised on this site to submit your welfare paperwork, you posted later that same day that you had court on 9/9/2008.

... i will get all my paper work together tonite because i have court this tuesday sept 9 2008 8:00 o clock ...

You then try to say that you had this paperwork on 7/9/08 but the judge didn't want it...

... i did try to show the courts the i am on public assistant the very first day that court started 07-09-2008 and was told by judge i needed 4 years of my tax returns not public assistant papers ...

... then say that you tried on 9/9/08 to resubmit the paperwork which had already been denied on 7/9/08.

... i don't have 4 years of tax returns which i tried to tell the judge and he replied to me well it's to bad because the courts had given me enough time.to hire attorney ...

If you already knew that the judge did not want your welfare paperwork, then why did you try to resubmit it 2 months later?

You state that you "called many attorneys;" did you explain your situation to any of them after you realized you don't have the funds to retain one? I can't believe that not a single attorney wouldn't have been able to provide you with the same information that you received on this board, if not better.

As for this paragraph:

I did ask if i could submit my public assistance papers into court i was denied and this was just the second court date so what do you mean the court gave me enough time when in fact i asked for a public defender the first court date and was turned down just because i did"t have 4 years of my tax returns but.... i did let the court know that i was on public assistance but was told it was to late to submit anything to the court and to be ready for trial next court date.

1. You were not "turned down" at the first court date. You were asked to provide proof of income to determine whether you were eligible for a public defender.
2. You waited until the second court date to try to submit proof of income; this should have been done weeks prior, not the day of.

I'm not even sure what the whole truth of this story is because you keep changing little bits and pieces. First you say that you're going to get your welfare paperwork together for the 9/9 hearing; then you say you already tried to submit it at the 7/9 hearing and were denied. Judy asked if you had sent for copies of your tax returns and you told her yes; now you're saying that you don't have anything. It's all rather confusing.

And before you start quoting me 4 different times and telling me that I'm getting on your nerves, please remember that others agree with me:

I don't disagree that the defendant fiddled around while he or she should have been diligent.

[mauj]

I'm sorry if you felt I was being negative. However, I gave my opinion based on the information that was provided by none other than yourself.

You initially posted on 9/6/08 that your first hearing had taken place on 7/9/08.


After being advised on this site to submit your welfare paperwork, you posted later that same day that you had court on 9/9/2008.


You then try to say that you had this paperwork on 7/9/08 but the judge didn't want it...

...then say that you tried on 9/9/08 to resubmit the paperwork which had already been denied on 7/9/08.

If you already knew that the judge did not want your welfare paperwork, then why did you try to resubmit it 2 months later?

You state that you "called many attorneys;" did you explain your situation to any of them after you realized you don't have the funds to retain one? I can't believe that not a single attorney wouldn't have been able to provide you with the same information that you received on this board, if not better.

As for this paragraph:

1. You were not "turned down" at the first court date. You were asked to provide proof of income to determine whether or not you were eligible for a public defender.
2. You waited until the second court date to try to submit proof of income; this should have been done weeks prior, not the day of.

I'm not even sure what the whole truth of this story is because you keep changing little bits and pieces. First you say that you're going to get your welfare paperwork together for the 9/9 hearing; then you say you already tried to submit it at the 7/9 hearing and were denied. Judy asked if you had sent for copies of your tax returns and you told her yes; now you're saying that you don't have anything. It's all rather confusing.

And before you start quoting me 4 different times and telling me that I'm getting on your nerves, please remember that others agree with me:

I don't care who agrees with you. Again because you must can NOT read. The first time I went to court the judge told me to bring him 4 yrs tax returns NOT and I say it again NOT anything about my welfare papers. It was excon who advised me to take my welfare papers and anything else to show I was poor.

[twinkiedooter]

All this is over a $500 criminal mischief charge. This sounds like a misdemeanor crime. You shouldn't get jail time for this.

[mauj]

All this is over a $500 criminal mischief charge. This sounds like a misdemeanor crime. You shouldn't get jail time for this.

Hello twinkie yes its all over a $500 dollars criminal mischief. If someone said that you broke the law and you know that you did"nt do it what will you do lay down and let the system convict you or would you fight for your rights like i"am trying to do it may be a criminal mischief but if you are convicted it goes on you record will you want the system to charge and try to convict you for every time someone said that you did something.

[JudyKayTee]

hello twinkie yes its all over a $500 dollars criminal mischief. if someone said that you broke the law and you know that you did"nt do it what will you do lay down and let the system convict you or would you fight for your rights like i"am trying to do it may be a criminal mischief but if you are convicted it goes on you record will you want the system to charge and try to convict you for every time someone said that you did something.

I'm amazed that the Court is putting this kind of time into a $500 charge which is a misdemeanor.

[excon]

I'm amazed that the Court is putting this kind of time into a $500 charge which is a misdemeanor.

Hello Judy:

They found an opening in one of their facilities, and want to fill it ASAP.

excon

PS> I HATE Texas

[this8384]

i don't care who agrees with you. again because you must can NOT read. the first time i went to court the judge told me to bring him 4 yrs tax returns NOT and i say it again NOT anything about my welfare papers. it was excon who advised me to take my welfare papers and anything else to show i was poor.

I can read. I can read very clearly that you posted:

... i did try to show the courts the i am on public assistant the very first day that court started 07-09-2008 and was told by judge i needed 4 years of my tax returns not public assistant papers ...

So if you weren't using your welfare papers to prove your income on 7/9, what were you using? These are your words, not mine.

Something else I thought of: how were you able to get on welfare? That requires proof of income, which you keep insisting that you don't have.

[excon]

Hello again, this:

Let's for a minute, assume that everything you say mauj did, he did. Let's say he WAS, indeed, irresponsible.

I reiterate; THIS isn't like a school assignment he missed where he'll get a bad grade. It isn't like an application for a job that he forgot about. It isn't even like a ticket that he missed the deadline on and now has to pay more. Nope. We're talking about JAIL TIME, here. A misdemeanor is a CRIMINAL offense that is punishable by imprisonment for up to ONE year in the county jail. That's a YEAR.

Now, some of you poo poo this, as though you can't believe that they actually would put him in the slam for a FULL year. But, they would. And, they'd enjoy doing it. If you think they wouldn't, you shouldn't be answering questions on the criminal law board. Plus, Mauj asks a good question of you. Would YOU lay down for them, even for such a piddly thing as this?? I don't think you would.

And, that's exactly WHY he is entitled to a lawyer. The Constitution says so. Now, I agree with you, that this TEXAS judge IS treating it as though he missed a school assignment, and too bad for him.

However, in THIS country, mauj, and people like him, are presumed to be innocent. It is incumbant on the court to insure that every effort is made to insure that his Constitutional rights are upheld. A cornerstone of those right, is the right to counsel - even if it means inconveniencing the court. That isn't ME saying that. It's the Constitution.

Therefore, in my view, the issue ISN'T "did he screw around?", cause even if he did, he ISN'T screwing around now. THAT is abundantly clear. He absolutely should be appointed a lawyer.

excon

[this8384]

Whether I'm right, wrong or just plain stupid, I still say we're not getting the full story. Like I asked in my last post, how was mauj able to get on welfare? If s/he was able to provide the documentation required by the welfare office, then there shouldn't be an issue providing it to the court.

Yes, mauj is innocent until proven guilty. But we don't know; this could be his/her 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in front of this judge. Perhaps mauj has a history of stringing out trials, perhaps not. We only know what we're being told.

[mauj]

Whether I'm right, wrong or just plain stupid, I still say we're not getting the full story. Like I asked in my last post, how was mauj able to get on welfare? If s/he was able to provide the documentation required by the welfare office, then there shouldn't be an issue providing it to the court.

Yes, mauj is innocent until proven guilty. But we don't know; this could be his/her 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in front of this judge. Perhaps mauj has a history of stringing out trials, perhaps not. We only know what we're being told.

Hello 8384 yes it is my 4th time in front of this judge. And I do not have a history stringing out trials thank you! Why! Don"t you hop on a plane come here to texas and go to court with me so you can get the picture on whats going on here,instesd of guessing. why! won"t you get it through that head of yours that the courts don't want any documentation I have. Say what you want about me with your negative thoughts but its not going to break my hope that I will come out of this a winner.

[JudyKayTee]

hello 8384 yes it is my 4th time in front of this judge. and i do not have a history stringing out trials thank you! why! don"t you hop on a plane come here to texas and go to court with me so you can get the picture on whats going on here,instesd of guessing. why! won"t you get it through that head of yours that the courts don"t want any documentation i have. say what you want about me with your negative thoughts but its not going to break my hope that i will come out of this a winner.

I think it's time to close this thread. Going nowhere and getting insulting.

[mauj]

I'm amazed that the Court is putting this kind of time into a $500 charge which is a misdemeanor.

I agree judy

[mauj]

I think it's time to close this thread. Going nowhere and getting insulting.

well judy if people would stop jumping the gun on me and quoting me on how I am not being truthful when all I did was told the truth on this site I "am not trying to play games with anyone here I ask for help not to be put down like 8384 is doing and say I not telling the truth. Thank you!

[mauj]

Whether I'm right, wrong or just plain stupid, I still say we're not getting the full story. Like I asked in my last post, how was mauj able to get on welfare? If s/he was able to provide the documentation required by the welfare office, then there shouldn't be an issue providing it to the court.you answered your on question just plain stupid.i didn"t have to show the walfare office nothing they done their own checking on me and saw i had no income reported back on me from the i.r.s

Yes, mauj is innocent until proven guilty. But we don't know; this could be his/her 2nd, 3rd, 4th time in front of this judge. Perhaps mauj has a history of stringing out trials, perhaps not. We only know what we're being told.

what ever miss 8384 since you think I"am not telling the truth come and arrest me because you have been putting me down since you read my post. if this were you in my shoes you would try to get help any way you could like i"am trying to do so please!. stop all the remarks about I"am not telling the truth when infact i "am .