[Auric]

Hi Guys!

My wife and I recently moved into our first house, (yay) it's been a lot of work but getting there.

The house has a well, jet pump and two pressure tanks. The one pressure tank is a fairly large (40gal) and pretty new. THe other one looks to be about 20 years old, and is pretty small. (9 gal maybe?) I can't find any markings on it.

I turned off the pump, drained the system and tested the pressure. The new tank was a little low so I topped it up to 18PSI (for 20/40 pressure) The pump turns on/off at the appropriate pressure.

The small tank only has about 6PSI. Could this be contributing to the inconsistent pressure we are getting?

As the small tank has no markings I have no idea what PSI to fill it to, nor does it look like it is in the best of shape.

Should I attempt to fill the tank to 18PSI? Or just look at replacing it?

[albinfla]

If you could please post a picture of your setup. Sometimes, there is a small tank like you are describing is there just to keep pressure down the jet. It is usually under-inflated as you are describing. One thing concerns me about it is that it may indicate that your foot valve may leak. Or, that your leather packers may leak. What that means is that if your system de-pressurizes totally, you might lose prime on your pump.

A word of caution... anytime you work on the pump. Always have several buckets of water stored to help re-prime. Even better, run a hose from the neighbors pump to pressurize yours.

I may be jumping to conclusions here. But, I have just had a few bad experiences with deep-well jet pumps.

If you post some pics, I can probably tell you a little bit better about your system.
Al

[Auric]

albinfla, I'll take a pic and post soon.

The small pressure tank and the large newer one are both connected to the same outlet via a T connector though?

[albinfla]

I forgot to congratulate you on your first home! Congratulations!

The pressure issue is probably 20/40 psi on and off. Generally speaking 20 psi will provide very little pressure to your home. I run my well at 50/70. But, most of my customer's systems run at 30/50 or 40/60.

Along with the pics, if you send me the make and model of your pump, I'll tell you what pressure you can probably set your pump at.
Al

[Auric]

The pics are uploading right now. (THis Rural broadband sucks.. that's my next project)

The Pump is older, it is a Weg model # C115587 1/3 HP

[albinfla]

You could probably turn up your pressure to 30/50. I couldn't find any specs on your particular pump. But, it is a twin-pipe, deep-well convertible jet pump. The small bladder tank is probably the original tank and the previous owner decided to put the larger one on to keep the pump from cycling on and off rapidly if they were using small amounts of water.

I can tell you that if you are used to city water, you will have a hard time adjusting. But, if you are able to adjust your pressure switch to 30/50, it will help. You may be able to put in a larger pump if the well will produce enough water for that. Try turning it up and see how it is. You should be able to turn the tall screw in the pressure switch clockwise to tighten the screw down. Try going about 2-1/2 turns and that will get you close. After you get that right, you'll need to de-pressurize and adjust your bladder tank to 2 psi less than the psi the pump comes on at. In other words, if you get it to 30/50. Set the air pressure in your bladder tank to 28.

Personally, I wouldn't be concerned with doing anything with the small tank. If anything, it is a benefit to help keep the pressure switch from chattering.

One other caution. All of that flexible tubing and old galvanized is very rough. I would re-pipe all of that in 3/4 or 1" schedule 40 PVC. That is a flood waiting to happen. Especially since you are going to increase the pressure.

By the way that 2 pipe setup is a lot easier to work on than the one that I discussed previously with leather packers. You can go to this link and get a manual that is similar to your system. That will help you have a better understanding of it.

http://www.goulds.com/pdf/7300.pdf
Al

[Auric]

Thanks for your help albinfla! I'm going to look at replumbing the entire system with 1" PVC before I turn up the pressure.

I need to check what my local codes are before I replumb it I want to make sure I use the right stuff.

I am used to city water, but like everything else it will take some getting used to :)

[albinfla]

Looking at the plumbing that was there already, I don't think re-piping in PVC will be an issue.:) The braided hose is actually flexible PVC. But, if it concerns you then you should check it out.

Make sure you use schedule 40 or schedule 80. I don't recommend the thin stuff except for irrigation.
Al

[jlisenbe]

Al has given good advice. You might want to consider going to 40/60. I say that because the only negative of running at higher pressure is stress on the pump. But with a jet pump, above ground, replacing a pump is a much easier process so you don't have to be as concerned with pump life.

I might add that replacing the small tank with a larger one means your pump cycles (time between cutin and cutoff) will be longer, which is good for the pump. It won't increase your pressure, but it will make the pressure drop as water is used longer and less noticeable.

[albinfla]

jlisenbe, I am with you! If the pump will build up 60 pounds, I would do that too. I kind of doubt that the 1/3 horsepower will produce 40/60, with any flow at all. It depends on the static water level in the well. I was concerned that with a top end of 60 that it will reach near 60 and run excessively to try and reach 60.

I think that the second tank is plenty large enough for the little 1/3 hp pump. But, you are right, generally bigger is better when it comes to bladder tanks. :)
Al

[jlisenbe]

Al, you are entirely correct about the small pump. I didn't notice that. It might not be able to get to 60# without running an excessive length of time. The only way to find out is to try it and see.

Thanks for noticing that.

[Auric]

Hey Guys,

So here's an update. I've got the pressure turned up a little and it seems to be working much better, but it's still not perfect.

Plan is to remove the small pressure tank as it does not look like its in good shape.

Found a couple items that were plumbed in after the UV that did not look like they belong, old sediment filter hooked up with garden hose and clamps. This is being removed today.

Few other little problems, found out that the UV is only to be used on water that is < 7 grains per gallon hard. Our water is almost 30! :eek:

Installing a water softener installed today as well.

[albinfla]

Thanks for updating us. Your sediment filter is probably your major pressure constraint! Removing the small bladder tank is fine, but you should relocate the pressure switch pick up point to the front of the larger bladder tank. If you leave the pick up point on the housing of the pump, you may get pressure switch chattering from time to time. That will kill your pump and your pressure switch. It sounds like you are on track. Are you also re-piping to get rid of all of that braided hose?

At 30 grains of hardness, you definitely needed a softener. What brand and model of softener are you putting in?

Al

[Auric]

Hey Alb,

Not sure on the model, but it is a culligan system. Two tank metered. I had it installed by the local Culligan dealer today.

[albinfla]

It's good that you went metered. That way you don't run out of soft water, or use excessive salt.

By two tanks, do you mean 2 softener resin tanks, plus a salt tank? Or one resin, and one salt tank? Just curious.
Al

[Auric]

One very large salt tank, and one resin tank.

I think it's pretty much your standard "rental" culligan softener. We debating on purchasing but it was beyond our budget for the time being. Rental costs are not that high and would enable us to get a higher quality machine rather than a GE from home depot

[albinfla]

Sounds like a wise decision, given the fact that you're new in the house and all. It was definitely better to get a better quality unit than the home depot special. Just so you know, GE sells a professional quality product through independent dealers such as myself. We refer to it as GE Professional, not to be confused with the box store piece of junk.

I hope they re-piped all of that mess for you while they were doing it. The flex-hose looks like an accident waiting for an inconvenient time to happen.

I thought maybe they "up-sold" you on the twin-tank, never run out of soft water deal. I mean really, who cares if one time per week, you don't have soft water from 2-4 in the morning? But, the "softener salesmen" are good at selling it that way. After 20 years as a professional in the business, you wouldn't believe the stories I've heard.

Anyway, congratulate yourself on a good decision. Be sure and re-pipe, and move that pressure pick up point. Those 2 things will save you a lot of headaches.

Good Luck with the new house.
Al

[jlisenbe]

Al, what does that unit you sell cost? Also, will it handle 10 ppm of iron?

[albinfla]

I don't know of a softener that will handle 10ppm of iron for very long. A fine mesh softener might do it for awhile, but it would foul the resin bed pretty quickly after a few weeks or months of usage.

I do have systems to treat anything that can be present in the water. To answer your question though, I would need to know additional info about the water. I would need ph, alk, manganese, hydrogen sulfides, hardness, what the gpm of the pump is, how many bathrooms and residents are in the house. Then, I would make recommendations for treatment.

I know it seems like over-kill to know all of that up-front, but it is the only way I'll sell and install equipment.

Is your iron more orange in appearance, or a dark brown? Also, do you have iron bacteria (slimy brown goo) growing in the backs of the toilet tanks?
Al