[MomWontGiveUp]

Okay - I know I have been posting here a lot. One might think I'm really dumb (I hope not) but I AM very naïve and ignorant about how this system works.

My ex husband "accidentally" filed an ex parte motion to change parenting time. I say "accidentally" because this is how it's been presented by my ex, my children and my ex in-laws. Ex is in drug rehab and while at one of his meetings, he shared a story about an event which took place at my home between me, my children and my present husband. Ex was told by the meeting leader that he had to file an abuse charge.

In brief, my son and I were having an argument and when my son would not stop yelling profanities at me, my husband stepped in and told him to stop. He ignored my husband so my husband laid his hand on my son's shoulder and pushed back. One week later, I'm in court for alleged physical abuse in my home at the hands of my husband. The descriptions in the motion were exaggerated and some were outright lies, claiming my children were frightened to return to my home, for fear of further physical harm. They were and are not. Further since that time, ex has made it clear (under oath) that he falsified statements in the ex parte motion to get relief from the courts.

However, at the time of the ex parte, I took the judge's suggestion to take a one week time out (we have 50/50 parenting time), which gave the children and I a three weeks breather. When the week came for the children to be returned to me, ex had retained an attorney, who sent me a letter, essentially stating that he was by law bound to report child abuse and unless I agreed to their terms (which was to allow the children to stay with their father while we went through mediation and hired an attorney for the children), he would be obligated by law to report the abuse. I already had an attorney retained by this time, but ex did not know. I immediately forwarded the letter to my attorney to respond on my behalf. I agreed to the children's attorney and my attorney filed a status quo motion. The next day, I received a call from my attorney stating he had just received a letter from ex's attorney, along with letters from each of my children, stating that they did not want to be forced back to my home. The letters were first hand-written, then typed. The language read just like it rolled off ex's tongue. I was hurt to read the letters of course, but even more so, envisioned my children sitting down at the table while their father dictated the letters for them to write. I have not had my children back since the ex parte hearing.

The judge provided a list of attorneys and one was selected and agreed upon by both attorneys. The children's attorney met with the children first, then me. At the time I met her, I felt she had made a fairly good assessment of what was going on, which was that the children were upset with me for badmouthing their dad, but also... she had greater concerns about the permissiveness in the father's home. The kids seemed to have free reign and were worried about the possibility of dad relapsing. He had also been unemployed for more than 3.5 years, which concerned the children, as it contributed to their father's depression.

The attorney informed me that she was only serving as the children's mouthpiece and could not make any recommendations to the courts. She did, however, have confidence in her ability to influence the children to make the right choice.

So my question is this: I met with this attorney once and she met with the children on at least three occasions (I'm guessing, based on feedback/conversations I've had with my attorney. I've yet to see a billing statement). If it appears that she has spent significant time with the children's father, his parents and their father's attorney - how can this be considered unbiased? How is this type of advocate supposed to work?

I must emphasize that the children's attorney was not appointed to make an evaluation, investigation or recommendation to the court. My kids are teenagers, not small children so I realize that their "say" goes a long way in the courts but I really feel my kids were caught up in the hype.

This attorney seems to be hell bent to punish me, when she knows very little about me and I'm sure... even less about father. She was angry that my attorney and I would not allow hearsay and asked her to stipulate to the children's wishes before the hearing so they did not have to be present to testify. She refused. I have a lot of evidence that would raise brows, but it has not been presented to the courts. At this point, I believe the only way it can be presented is to custody evaluation. The pits about that is that this particular judge has already said he pays little attention to custody studies because he feels he can do just as good of a job by his assessment in the court room. I feel like I've lost everything, just trying to play by the rules.

[stinawords]

When ever a lawyer is hired on children's behalf it is to work for their best interests. I have read through your other posts and I'm really not sure what else you intend to learn because this is still the same subject and you will get the same answers. Why do you think she isn't supposed to do some sort of assessment? How is she supposed to speak for them if she dosen't even know what she is speaking for? I realize that your husband stepped in for your good but step parents have to be VERY careful what they do. There was someone on here that stated that two brothers (I think) were arguing and one was about to go out of a second story window so the step dad grabed the kid and the kid got a scratch on his arm from this action and there were charges on that too.
It was recommended to you to have your kids have a lawyer because of your incident and the children't lawyer is just that a lawyer for the children. She does have to take a side... the side of the kids. If I'm not understanding your questions please clarify because I see the same thing as the other posts just over again.

[MomWontGiveUp]

I realize she's supposed to look after the interests of the children but doesn't that include validating that the information they give her is accurate? What I'm asking is if it's okay that she spent time building a case against me when she stated she was unbiased. Part of that would have included spending significant time with ex and his parents (who... by the way paid for this whole show). Grandparents are terrified that if their son lost his kids, he'd lose his job, go back to drugs - they said this right in front of the kids. Naturally, the kids are going to protect him if they think it's their burden he succeed in recovery.

I know my questions seem redundant. I just feel this went very unfairly, because I did not have the money my ex had behind him. It feels like there was conspiracy between ex's attorney and kids' attorney.

[stinawords]

Ok, now I'm even more confused. What did the grandparents pay for? It seems that they paid for the children't attorney in this post but I thought that their lawyer was paid by you and your ex. She has to be slightly biased because she has to express their interests I think she described her role to you incorectly because obviously she can't be unbiased. She has to start unbiased but has to argue a case for the kids and if she remains unbiased she wouldn't be able to do her job.

[MomWontGiveUp]

Ok, now I'm even more confused. What did the grandparents pay for? It seems that they paid for the children't attorney in this post but I thought that their lawyer was paid by you and your ex. She has to be slightly biased because she has to express their interests I think she described her role to you incorectly because obviously she can't be unbiased. She has to start unbiased but has to argue a case for the kids and if she remains unbiased she wouldn't be able to do her job.

Sorry for the confusion. Ex's parents have been paying for HIS attorney. Ex and I are to share kids' attorney. Ex has been sharing details of HIS position with the kids. I know this, because my daughter asked me why I had their dad deposed. Since she was not present when his attorney informed him of this, he made a point of telling the kids that "Mom is having me questioned." is how my daughter put it.

Yes - she is representing the kids but did anyone tell her that ex was arrested in front of the kids last year or that he kicked them out and sent them to me? Nope. This is why I feel she developed her 'opinion' of me based on hearsay that was trumped up by Dad. I may have badmouthed their dad in a moment of frustration, but I have never CALLED my children four letter words or told them "I've had it with you - pack your (*&( and go live with Mom."

I just feel this attorney did not investigate, if that's how she's approaching this.

[twinkiedooter]

Like I told you previously you have all this wonderful ammunition about the ex and you totally REFUSE to use it against him. I have virtually NO idea what you want from us here as you keep asking the same question over and over again and giving the same scenerio over and over again. It's basically them against me, they have the money and I don't. I did ask you how they could have possibly relieved you of your 50/50 custody position in another question and you did not answer this. You did answer this above though. It was an Ex Parte Hearing. Gee, why didn't you mention this earlier? I guess it just slipped your mind. No, it didn't just slip your mind. You are in denial about the whole thing. You had your chance when ex went to drug rehab but you foolishly listened to his parents and caved in. Well, you got the train run over you with all 200 cars behind the locomotive for that gaffe on your part. You were more worried about what other people think of you than what was right for your children. I do not understand you one iota for doing that.

Also, you never actually reiterated just WHY you are such a wonderful mother and the children should live with you. You just keep rambling on and on about how the children's attorney is biased against you. How do you know this for sure? You don't. What does your attorney say about all this or has he too rolled over and caved in to the ex's parents?

What difference does it makes just how much time the children's attorney spends with the ex and his parents? Has she made additional scheduled meetings for you? If not, then why not? Your attorney should be the one to talk this over with. The Judge agreed to her appointment as the children's attorney.

I am still wondering just WHY you protest to the children testifying to the Judge. What are you so deeply afraid of? There has to be a logical reason for this aversion on your part. If they would testify are you terrified that they would chose to live with ex and not you right now? What are you going to do when they turn 18?

These kids are teenagers. These kids for whatever reason don't want to live with you right now. You cannot force them to do anything against their will as they will clearly rebell if for some reason you actually do get back some sort of custody right now. He's 16 and soon to be on his own. She's 14 and she's easily swayed by having some freedom that you obviously don't allow. They are both craving the crappy life your ex supposedly leads with both hands. You can't do anything more than what you have been and/or are doing now. Why are you beating yourself up over this day in and day out? Your poor husband must be driven up a wall about this from you. He needs his sanity I'm sure. You're going to just have to go with what your attorney tells you or GET ANOTHER ATTORNEY to handle this for you if you're not happy with the one you have.

We are not miracle workers here, we are just volunteers trying to help other people understand the law and/or situations they get themselves into.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but sometimes the truth just might hurt a bit. Teenagers want and crave freedom to do the things they supposedly want to do. Sometimes adults know better, but then it takes a teenager first hand knowledge for this to sometime happen and for them to see that gee, mom wasn't so bad after all, now was she?

[MomWontGiveUp]

Like I told you previously you have all this wonderful ammunition about the ex and you totally REFUSE to use it against him.

I don't refuse to use it against him. I have tried to use it and keep getting told that it's irrelevant. This is why I'm so at my wit's end over this. I have consulted with attorneys numerous times. By the time I find this stuff out, I'm told it's too old to use.

I have virtually NO idea what you want from us here as you keep asking the same question over and over again and giving the same scenerio over and over again. It's basically them against me, they have the money and I don't. I did ask you how they could have possibly relieved you of your 50/50 custody position in another question and you did not answer this. You did answer this above though. It was an Ex Parte Hearing. Gee, why didn't you mention this earlier? I guess it just slipped your mind. No, it didn't just slip your mind. You are in denial about the whole thing.

I did not intentionally not answer this. Technically, I was not relieved of my 50/50 - only for one week. Once the kids were with ex, he kept them there and I was urged not to pressure the kids - it would make matters worse.

You had your chance when ex went to drug rehab but you foolishly listened to his parents and caved in. Well, you got the train run over you with all 200 cars behind the locomotive for that gaffe on your part. You were more worried about what other people think of you than what was right for your children. I do not understand you one iota for doing that.

I was not more worried about what other people think. I was afraid to take on this battle, because I knew ex's parents would do anything to stop me from doing it. They've lied for him and foster the kids' feelings. I knew I'd be going up against not just my ex, but the kids and their grandparents. They ALL have been protecting him.

Also, you never actually reiterated just WHY you are such a wonderful mother and the children should live with you. You just keep rambling on and on about how the children's attorney is biased against you. How do you know this for sure? You don't. What does your attorney say about all this or has he too rolled over and caved in to the ex's parents?

You know, my friends and family could probably be better at telling you what a wonderful mother I am. When you've been kicked down like I have, it's easy to find more self doubt than self confidence. I have sacrificed my time these past 8 years to drive my kids across town every week I had them so they could remain in their school and have daily contact with their dad. The house he lives in is the house we bought when the kids were small - it's their home base. If I thought things would turn out this way when I made the decision to release my interest in that house (so ex could stay in the real estate market and not wind up in an apartment) I would have bought him out and sold the house. Well, hind-sight is 20/20. I've made a lot of mistakes - I know. I've made the kids Halloween and school play costumes, baked cookies with them, taken them to the beach, ice skating (even when they protested "What!? I can't ice skate!") yet 20 minutes into the skate session, they were cuddling with me begging to come back the following weekend. I've taken my son fishing when he's looked sad that his dad has NEVER taken him fishing. I've gone to open swim sessions with them, when I can't swim myself. I've decorated cakes and made disgusting meals, just because the kids love them and it was their birthday request. I've been the one who picks them up from school when they're sick, made all their doctor and dental appointments, kept in touch with their teachers. I've tried to be a good role model by working full time and going to school nights to try to better myself. I've taken lousy seasonal work, when there was nothing else available. I don't think I'm a unique mother, but I'm a good mother; a mother who has made mistakes and is willing to do what she needs to to address them. Want more?[/QUOTE]

What difference does it makes just how much time the children's attorney spends with the ex and his parents? Has she made additional scheduled meetings for you? If not, then why not? Your attorney should be the one to talk this over with. The Judge agreed to her appointment as the children's attorney.

No - she has not made additional appointments with me and I have received no clear answer. When I asked for a progress update, it came back as "Now they're asking for sole custody with no scheduled visitation." They threw in a bone at the last second (the day of the preliminary hearing) which included every other Sunday for 3 hours. Gee... thanks! This was simply to spare legal fees, since the original counter parenting plan would be seen as unreasonable. I had offered EOW, family counseling and asked that my son maintain a GPA of 2.0 to play football. They rejected and countered with NO PLAN.

I am still wondering just WHY you protest to the children testifying to the Judge. What are you so deeply afraid of? There has to be a logical reason for this aversion on your part. If they would testify are you terrified that they would chose to live with ex and not you right now? What are you going to do when they turn 18?

From the beginning, I did not want to involve my kids in this at all. I thought the attorney was focused on keeping this out of court. What she did was recommend my ex file for sole custody - he had not brought custody into the matter earlier. He just wanted to change parenting time. The kids' attorney is the one who threw this into court; she did not prevent it at all. How else should I have responded to a NO PLAN plan? Roll over and say "kick me harder please?"

These kids are teenagers. These kids for whatever reason don't want to live with you right now. You cannot force them to do anything against their will as they will clearly rebell if for some reason you actually do get back some sort of custody right now. He's 16 and soon to be on his own. She's 14 and she's easily swayed by having some freedom that you obviously don't allow. They are both craving the crappy life your ex supposedly leads with both hands. You can't do anything more than what you have been and/or are doing now. Why are you beating yourself up over this day in and day out? Your poor husband must be driven up a wall about this from you. He needs his sanity I'm sure. You're going to just have to go with what your attorney tells you or GET ANOTHER ATTORNEY to handle this for you if you're not happy with the one you have.

It's been only a week since the preliminary hearing. I'm still mourning. And yes, I am fortunate to have a VERY patient husband. I am considering consulting with another attorney. I think my attorney is all above board and "too kind" as my husband put it. He is not willing to practice 'dirty' like my ex's attorney. Well... maybe that's what I need. I'm not suggesting that anyone lie - I just need someone who is willing to really yell and scream on my behalf; on my children's behalf.

We are not miracle workers here, we are just volunteers trying to help other people understand the law and/or situations they get themselves into.

And I thank you for your honest input - truly. I simply do not understand how all this works or why the ammunition I have has not been brought to light in court.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but sometimes the truth just might hurt a bit. Teenagers want and crave freedom to do the things they supposedly want to do. Sometimes adults know better, but then it takes a teenager first hand knowledge for this to sometime happen and for them to see that gee, mom wasn't so bad after all, now was she?

I know that because my kids are teenagers, they are in a special position. They love the permissiveness their dad's home provides and hate the rules we have (my ex even ranted on the stand about how we don't allow the kids to take food out of the kitchen - oh horrors) so I hope in time, they will see that life really wasn't that bad here. My husband has enriched their lives, which I haven't even gotten into here. I honestly could not have found a better man to be the step father of my children. Despite the upset earlier this spring, they really love him and I'm sure miss his antics and steady guidance. Perhaps the kids will remember all this... next time dad is arrested or having a temper tantrum.

All I can do now is wait for that day to come and have my arms open

[twinkiedooter]

Thank you for your honest response. I can now understand you much better. You DID give me a great description of how you are a good mother. Thank you for that. You have gone above and beyond for them. They just don't know/see it right now.

Having thought over your post now for several days I definitely think you need another attorney. I worked for divorce attorneys down in Florida and the ones that are the "yeller screamer" variety that go for the juggler are usually higher priced, but they DO get results versus the Caspar Milquetoast kind of guy. You need basically one of these in your corner. The business of the "stuff is too old" - I'm sorry, I don't buy that. The guy is blowing smoke in your face as he hasn't the faintest clue how to fight the other guy. The yeller screamer would definitely use that ammunition.

Also, you have to remember what I said about them and the allure of his cheesey life style. The part about food out of the kitchen is petty on your part. I've yet to reprimand anyone ever about that and never will. You have to remember not everyone likes to eat in the kitchen sitting on a chair at a table. I don't even have a kitchen table or kitchen chair in my home now for 7 years.

Anyway, you CAN wait until ex has a temper tantrum and throws them out like you indicated he did once before. Apparently someone who has done drug rehab and can't hold a job has a poor grasp on reality. (even though he's got a job now but for how long) He's going to fall off the reality wagon with a thud sooner than you think once it's "daddy has to be a grown up now and raise two kids". That's going to put a severe crimp in his social life with any females. He relies too much on his folks and habits like that are very hard to break. Money does not mean responsibility or character, especially if it's handed to a person.

You could go for the throw everything at this jerk that you have and hope the judge goes for it or you could just sit back and wait until he looses his temper and goes ballistic over something the kids do. Right now, I know it is very hard having been "done dirty" by some attorney, but in all honesty you WERE done wrong. You must take stock of yourself and some how just get through this and hope that your children wake up before it's too late. You have my thoughts and well wishes that they do wake up soon. I am sorry that I was harsh with you but you weren't telling some pertinent info (until now). Basically it all boils down to the attorney you have is rolling over and playing dead as he's not a true fighter for you.

Everything aside, just remember this. When a child is over 18 they can do anything they want such as live where they want. You will have the rest of the child's life to see them with no court imposed restrictions. Just how many years is that?? A lot. Plus you can be a teriffic grandmother to their children. You will always be their mother. Always. And no one can EVER take that away from you.

Nothing lasts forever as my mother used to say. And believe me, that is so true. This too shall pass.

[JudyKayTee]

I just feel this attorney did not investigate, if that's how she's approaching this.

Here is my honest concern - you've posted this several times. You've received any number of responses. I've already told you I don't know how/why you're still standing.

I know you think the system was stacked against you but I truly don't know what type of advice you want - these lengthy explanations that boil down to a simple question are exhausting. It appears to me it's over, at least for the time being.

Maybe your children were manipulated. Maybe they weren't. Maybe for whatever reason they want to live with their father. Maybe they don't. Maybe your Attorney or their Attorney or someone else's Attorney had preconceived opinion about you or the situation. I don't know.

But it's over for now.

If you don't like/trust any Attorney, find another one.

Truly, I don't know what you want anyone to say here.

[MomWontGiveUp]

Thank you for your honest response. I can now understand you much better. You DID give me a great description of how you are a good mother. Thank you for that. You have gone above and beyond for them. They just don't know/see it right now.

Having thought over your post now for several days I definitely think you need another attorney. I worked for divorce attorneys down in Florida and the ones that are the "yeller screamer" variety that go for the juggler are usually higher priced, but they DO get results versus the Caspar Milquetoast kinda guy. You need basically one of these in your corner. The business of the "stuff is too old" - I'm sorry, I don't buy that. The guy is blowing smoke in your face as he hasn't the faintest clue how to fight the other guy. The yeller screamer would definitely use that ammunition.

Also, you have to remember what I said about them and the allure of his cheesey life style. The part about food out of the kitchen is petty on your part. I've yet to reprimand anyone ever about that and never will. You have to remember not everyone likes to eat in the kitchen sitting on a chair at a table. I don't even have a kitchen table or kitchen chair in my home now for 7 years.

The 'rule' really means no food in the bedrooms or living room. They still will try, but it is our rule so that we can keep the main living areas clean. I know ex's mom didn't have this rule and he used to have half dozen or more glasses growing mold in his bedroom and the smell was disgusting (oh why oh why didn't I run when I was 16?) I think it's that very image that makes me put my foot down on this one and it's not a hard rule to follow. The kids eat their meals at the table - always. It's the snacks they bring to their room and let rot under the bed. Hah... I found pizza slices in my son's bed one time :)

Anyway, you CAN wait until ex has a temper tantrum and throws them out like you indicated he did once before. Apparently someone who has done drug rehab and can't hold a job has a poor grasp on reality. (even though he's got a job now but for how long) He's going to fall off the reality wagon with a thud sooner than you think once it's "daddy has to be a grown up now and raise two kids". That's going to put a severe crimp in his social life with any females. He relies too much on his folks and habits like that are very hard to break. Money does not mean responsibility or character, especially if it's handed to a person.

You could go for the throw everything at this jerk that you have and hope the judge goes for it or you could just sit back and wait until he looses his temper and goes ballistic over something the kids do. Right now, I know it is very hard having been "done dirty" by some attorney, but in all honesty you WERE done wrong. You must take stock of yourself and some how just get through this and hope that your children wake up before it's too late. You have my thoughts and well wishes that they do wake up soon. I am sorry that I was harsh with you but you weren't telling some pertinent info (until now). Basically it all boils down to the attorney you have is rolling over and playing dead as he's not a true fighter for you.

Everything aside, just remember this. When a child is over 18 they can do anything they want such as live where they want. You will have the rest of the child's life to see them with no court imposed restrictions. Just how many years is that??? A lot. Plus you can be a teriffic grandmother to their children. You will always be their mother. Always. And no one can EVER take that away from you.

Nothing lasts forever as my mother used to say. And believe me, that is so true. This too shall pass.

No need to apologize for being harsh. I respect honest answers. I didn't intentionally leave pertinent information out earlier, it's just that I know I tend to be long-winded. I also know that this has been posted over and over by me previously, so I may have even thought I'd included the details because I'd already posted it somewhere else.

I do feel like my attorney has rolled over. I felt that I rolled over in court during my cross examination. It's a difficult spot to be in because you can't really say what's on your mind; especially when you have TWO attorneys beating you up at once. The hurt, fear and rage was boiling inside me and I had to remain composed (which all my friends and family commented on - I held together remarkably well).

We had the kids over for three hours on Sunday, which went well; especially all things considered. My son has even made plans to go on a weekend camping/hiking trip with my husband (which means Mom and sis are going now too). For the life of me, I do not understand why the kids' attorney was/is so hell bent on providing me with NO scheduled parenting time, whatsoever. I was able to bark that out during the hearing that by further limiting access to my children, this would only make matters worse between us - not better! Her proposed plan did not include family counseling - mine did. The judge did rule that each parent get individual counseling, as well as attend family counseling. I'm hoping ex is unable to attend the first few sessions (at least). I already know I suffer from PTSD because of this man. Sitting in the same room with him throws me into an anxiety attack, although I manage to get through it.

I know the kids will be grown soon but it's so hard to let go now - before I had time to prepare. I foresee my daughter getting fed up soon with being Cinderella (her job is to do the family laundry). All I can do now is make the most of the time the court has given me and hope that the kids and I can re-establish the bond we once had. As one of my friends always says "When life hands you lemons - Make Lemonade!"

Thanks again for your honesty and candor. I appreciate it very much.

[MomWontGiveUp]

Here is my honest concern - you've posted this several times. You've received any number of responses. I've already told you I don't know how/why you're still standing.

I know you think the system was stacked against you but I truly don't know what type of advice you want - these lengthy explanations that boil down to a simple question are exhausting. It appears to me it's over, at least for the time being.

Maybe your children were manipulated. Maybe they weren't. Maybe for whatever reason they want to live with their father. Maybe they don't. Maybe your Attorney or their Attorney or someone else's Attorney had preconceived opinion about you or the situation. I don't know.

But it's over for now.

If you don't like/trust any Attorney, find another one.

Truly, I don't know what you want anyone to say here.

Yes - it's over for now. I do plan on seeking another attorney - one who will fight. I think this one bit off more than he could chew.

Thanks again for your input. It helps - it all does.

[JudyKayTee]

Yes - it's over for now. I do plan on seeking another attorney - one who will fight. I think this one bit off more than he could chew.

Thanks again for your input. It helps - it all does.

My concern for you is that you are burning up energy, expending time, on a matter which for all purposes is concluded for the moment.

If your "ex" is trying to push you over an edge, you can't let him do it.

It's hard to just walk away but, as you said, you have to do - for your kids and yourself - the best you can with what you've been handed.

And trust karma.

[MomWontGiveUp]

My concern for you is that you are burning up energy, expending time, on a matter which for all purposes is concluded for the moment.

Yep - I obsess. The 'conclusion' is still fresh but I know from past upsets, I will let off on the hunt.

If your "ex" is trying to push you over an edge, you can't let him do it.

No - I won't let him push me over the edge. I've survived him before; I'll survive him now. He forgets that I have the love and support of my family and many friends. Having my dearest people with me at the hearing gave me strength. It reminded me that I am loved by many. Ex has no one but the kids and his parents. He will be alone when the kids are grown and his parents die.

It's hard to just walk away but, as you said, you have to do - for your kids and yourself - the best you can with what you've been handed.

And trust karma.

I'm going to make the best of these months ahead with my children. When February comes, I hope to be in a better position with them than I am now. I also want to be sure I have an attorney who does not approach the judge as gingerly as my current attorney did. He is young, so he probably realizes he'll go before this judge many more times to come and therefore, does not want to be too cocky this early in his career.

I don't expect to get everything I want with a new attorney. I do hope, however, I won't get flattened as I felt I did this go 'round.

It's time to let Karma take its course

Thanks again for your feedback.