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    RUBLUE's Avatar
    RUBLUE Posts: 60, Reputation: 7
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    #1

    Apr 30, 2006, 03:16 PM
    Mexican Immigration
    Just my thoughts. I can HAVE & SPEAK. About them. This America!! Why should Mexican people be any different, than any other person wanting to come to the US ? The process of any person wanting to come to the US should be the same for ALL!! A person from Europe, such as Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Go through a very strict process even to visit here. Example. Even if a WEALTHY person from the Ukraine who wants to see sites like Disney Land, Hollywood etc. Many detailed documents must be completed and viewed by the American consulate in their country. Also a in person interview. They must show cause and reason why they would want to return to their homeland. Such as own a business, family they support. Also meet income requirements. Then if all is OK, they MIGHT get a visa to come here. Even so, it could be a year or longer before they get the visa. I know that many of the thousands of Mexican people who cross or boarder illegal everyday are good God fearing people who want to better their life. But reality dictates a large % of these people are involved in Drug, Weapons, Gang related issues. Also reality is many of the illegal Mexicans who are here already, tax the medical & welfare system. Meaning less for the Real Americans who are native or here legal. There are some issues that just piss me off. I live in central California where English is pretty much a second language. I might be more supportive of their cause if they did not wave the Mexican Flag, wanting to be Americans. I also do not understand our National Anthem words to be changed for their cause. It has been many years since I have studied about our fight for independence from England 200+ years ago. But I do not recall any Mexicans being there. My stepfather was a Mexican. Even way back in the 70's he did not like term Mexican American. He said that he was a American who just happened to be a Mexican. Amen to that!! I do not feel we need for Congress to make new laws, costing American Tax Payers MILLIONS of dollars. We just need to enforce the laws we have. Therefore ANYBODY from Mexico or Tim Buck Two, who are here illeagle should be ARRESTED & DEPORTED YESTERDAY!! But that's just me. :)
    love and be loved's Avatar
    love and be loved Posts: 34, Reputation: -2
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    #2

    Apr 30, 2006, 04:34 PM
    Hey it is me again
    Althow I do believe that it is not fair that mexicens do not have to do all that stuff
    Some of these people are poor or have something else inthere life that makes them not abel to fill these requirements and the have no chance of a better life in mexico so they need to get in to the US so they can have a better life

    This applise to people in other contries also but they don't relly have a way to get across the border that easy so I will just talk about mexicens for now

    Also or aconemy needs them we would not be abel to function without them
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #3

    Apr 30, 2006, 05:15 PM
    While yes many of these people are poor, so are the people in many african nations, middle eastern nations, china, and so on.
    But they don't get to come just because they are poor.

    If these people were all middle eastern and all here illegally, how fast would they start sending them home ?
    RUBLUE's Avatar
    RUBLUE Posts: 60, Reputation: 7
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    #4

    Apr 30, 2006, 06:59 PM
    Thank You Fr_Chuck. Just because Mexico is a boarder Country should make no difference. Not that we have a problem with Canada, but the same LAW should apply to ALL. That is my point. The LAW has to be drawn & enforsed because it is the LAW. The protest, Mexican Flags, our National Anthom and the term Mexican American is my opinion. The word illeagal means crossing against a LAW. The opposite of legal. Doing something against what a majority of people, persons in our Government voted on for the betterment of the American society. I will admit there are some old & silly outdated laws. But when you are talking about National Security & social/economic issues that are a true injustice for hard working legal Americans, you don't screw with. I am not a RACIST, or hate anyone. But I feel we are Ameicans or not. I respect all cultures. But the term Mexican, African, Asian American, I just don't get. I do not claim to be a European Decent American. Just American & proud of it. The only true Americans are Native Americans (Ameican Indian). And we all know that story. And at some point 5000+ years ago, they migrated from Asia. But hey that's just me.:)
    Tommyp!972's Avatar
    Tommyp!972 Posts: 300, Reputation: 36
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    #5

    Apr 30, 2006, 07:02 PM
    I say SUE the president if you're NOT of Mexican descent!! its discrimination outright!
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #6

    May 1, 2006, 05:00 AM
    Today is the boycott so Mexican immigrants can show how important they are to the economy. A lot has been said about the immigrants' importance to the economy and how they do jobs Americans don't want, which is a crock to begin with. Here in Texas the evidence shows that they actually cost jobs and are exploited daily by contractors who pay them below minimum wage, thereby running many who can make a decent living priced out of the market. Your president knows this but has done nothing because he knows it benefits his rich buddies, and keeps wages low.:cool: :eek:
    fredg's Avatar
    fredg Posts: 4,926, Reputation: 674
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    #7

    May 1, 2006, 06:08 AM
    Hi, Rublue,
    I could not agree with you more!
    The problem with Mexican illegal immigrants is it's NOT a priority with the Federal Gov't. We help with the North Viet Nam and South Viet Nam borders, protecting them. But, we can't supply the needed money to take care of those crossing out borders illegally!
    CO is now working on getting signatures for the State elections in Nov, stating no State Money is to be used for illegal immigrants. Congress is working on a Bill to make it mandatory that the National Anthem be sung in ENGLISH, not Spanish. English is the major language for America, and should not be turned into Spanish or any other language.
    These illegal immigrants are hired by companies, due to working for less. The Federal Gov't has not been doing it's job, supplying needed money for protecting the borders, and this is the result! The illegals are taking advantage of our own taxes, with States spending our own money, and we are paying for it. This is the results.
    I really think you will finally begin to see the rest of American voters speaking out and voting, against what is, and has been, happening.
    RUBLUE's Avatar
    RUBLUE Posts: 60, Reputation: 7
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    #8

    May 1, 2006, 06:21 AM
    I agree!! Here in my large city in Central California, we have a huge agricultural industry. Going to be a big Hoop T do event. Protest parade, kid's cutting school, walk out, boycott etc. This is a day I am glad we have a Maveric, good ole boy Police Dept. Always known to shoot first & ask questions later. DO NOT PUT UP WITH ANY CRAP. But I to will take to the streets, to support & stand firm on a cause I have much passion for. Unfortunately there a some on that side I do not agree with their ideology. Skin Heads, Nazi white supremacist. I am not a Racist, or hate anyone. Just a LAW abiding American working class Joe. At this point our failed Government, I have very little Faith in. God Bless America!! God help our failing Government!!
    RUBLUE's Avatar
    RUBLUE Posts: 60, Reputation: 7
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    #9

    May 1, 2006, 09:28 PM
    I now understand the frustratin famous people, Movie & TV stars & politicians etc, are angry with the media. At the Protest I went to today May 1st. At a very large park in my city. Police said on the news about 3500 to 4000 people. I was very much a minority by color & opinion. Local news TV wanted a brief interview, because of being on the other side. So not thinking DUH. I was wearing a baseball cap backwards with Sun glasses. The news anchor led with questions. It only lasted maybe 3 or 4 minutes. But in my answers I stated I was not a Racist & hated nobody. So while watching the news I was shocked. Before my interview, was Mexican girl crying. She said she could not believe the hate people have for each other in 2006. Then me. My 3 or 4 minute interview was cut to 6 words. There I am, my full name at the bottom of the screen (yes I am stupid sometimes). The 6 words were THEY SHOULD BE ARRESTED AND DEPORTED. Wow!! Even those words were out of context. Looked like a real nice guy, especially after the crying girl talking about hate. Oh Well!! Live & learn. And screw the media. I learned my lesson. Never again!!
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #10

    May 1, 2006, 10:39 PM
    Hey Ru, things have a way of working out Here in The Great State of Texas No bodies mind has changed... immagrants are welcome... illegals are not!:cool:
    werefang's Avatar
    werefang Posts: 1, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    May 15, 2006, 10:59 AM
    Hey now that we're all talking about illegal Mexican Immigration perhaps you all can help me out! I'm writing a research arguing paper on Cuban vs. Mexican Immigration. My paper as opposed to the title is about if the U.S. government had a choice between the two countries, which should it let it in illegally? Mexico or Cuba? On my paper I wrote Cuba. My reasons being Cubans are dealing a heck of a lot of crap right now more than the Mexicans. I was just wondering if I could conduct an online interview with any of you to add some more support to this paper. I don't think the professor said it had to be a real argument as long as its arguing some point across its fine! Just let me know who wants to be interviewed right now??
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
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    #12

    May 15, 2006, 11:14 AM
    This America!!
    You have a very interesting way of saying things.

    The geographical area you are so patriotically defending wasn't always America. It was once Mexico, and was defended as Mexico by Mexicans before it was taken by force under the fanatical belief of Manifest Destiny. Then to add insult to injury those Mexicans who had been guaranteed fair treatment under the treaty were stripped of their wealth with the help of hundreds of Anglo lawyers who greedily converged on the area hell bent on using any illegal means at their disposal to strip the Mexicans of their land and property. These formerly wealthy Mexican families were forced into poverty.


    The irony of it all is that Mexico lost half its territory because of a conflict with foreigners whom they had legally permitted to live in Mexico, you know, the area called Texas. These immigrants had promised to abide by Mexican law in order to be allowed to live there and had taken oaths that they would. But then by rebelling against Mexican Law they became illegals and in that illegal state proceeded to wage a war of independence. So Mexico lost Texas. Later, when it protested against this loss they were stripped of California. New Mexico, Colorado and Arizona. This aggression was internationally criticized by the word's governments an ILLEGAL. Yet no heed was given to this accusation of ILLEGAL since to do so would mean that the stolen land would have to be returned to its LEGAL owner--Mexico and Manifest Destiny wouldn't quite jive with that.



    I also do not understand our National Anthem words to be changed for their cause.:)
    Could the problem be because you do not know Spanish? I didn't know that the illegals were suggesting that everyone sing the national anthem in Spanish!



    It has been many years since I have studied about our fight for independence from England 200+ years ago. But I do not recall any Mexicans being there.

    Perhaps they were studying history at another location? : )

    But seriously, since when has ancestral participation in the War for independence been a requirement for American citizenship? Since you think that Hispanics are the only ones whose ancestors did not participate? Actually, criterion can be applied to millions of immigrant Italians, Jews. Poles, Germans, Irish, and others whose ancestors arrived a little after that war was over. Ever consider that? In any case--and I'm almost sure that it will come as a total shock to you, Mexicans did participate in that war. Even Puerto Ricans did under general Galvez since a contingent from the island was relocated to Texas to be under his command. Ever here of Galvez? Galveston?

    Who was Bernardo Galvez?
    Spain was an ally of France and an economic competitor of Great Britain. These relationships prompted Spain to officially enter the war against Great Britain in 1779.. . GÁLVEZ, BERNARDO DE (1746-1786). Bernardo de Gálvez was born on July 23, 1746, in Macharaviaya, a...
    Who was Bernardo Galvez?


    Look it up. He was a Spanish governor of that area who helped the American freedom fighters against the British with Spain's approval.
    Hispanics in World History, an overview of Hispanic contributions to the World... States of America? Hispanics funded the American War of Independence, and not even... war since the War of Independence, however our history books omit this tremendous contribution...
    Hispanics in History

    Hispanic Perspective
    ... all contributions Hispanics made to the American war for independence. The Contribution and levels of... decisive. The Spanish contribution to the American War of Independence were in...
    Hispanic Perspective



    CONTRIBUTIONS OF HISPANIC AMERICANS IN THE UNITED STATES122
    ... in the War for American Independence. Spain's Role in the Atlantic and the Pacific. HISPANICS CONTRIBUTION TO AMERICA'S... as a result of the Spanish-American War.)
    CONTRIBUTIONS OF HISPANIC AMERICANS IN THE UNITED STATES122

    So why not do a little research before putting forth your ideas as fact?

    I live in central California where English is pretty much a second language.
    California? Wasn't that Mexico once and wasn't Spanish the official language of Mexico? If I invade Russia and take half the territory, isn't a bit weird for me to be amazed about how many people speak Russian in the area I took? : )


    BTW
    The ones who started the custom you claim to find annoying were those USA citizens of African descent who suddenly began preoudly calling themselves African Americans. No one had any complaints against that type of custom until now I suppose? At least I never heard any protest. So why now?
    samir_raut88's Avatar
    samir_raut88 Posts: 43, Reputation: 3
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    #13

    May 21, 2006, 09:48 AM
    I guess this forum is dead by now but just my comment on original reference to 'good God fearing people'.What's that supposed to show? A pathetic picture of a poor nation to show they can be illegally present in any foreign nation(in this case US) ?

    While US itself is a country made of Immigrants, however, it is important to make immigration and work permission a legal process. It is disturbing that they(protesting immigrants) are carrying the flag of their country when they are protesting to be legal in US! And, changing the national song into spanish? What's that? A dilemma of nationalism or sth?

    Your identity is important but when you change yr nationality, it is important to understand that now you represent another land. People fail to see this as a big decision.

    Immigration is a very important issue today in US as the country becomes more diverse. I recall a comedian making a remark on globalisation in this way: "One day, we are not going to have white ppl. You figure China and India almost covers the globe and they are all going to hump the whites one day and guess what's the kid going to be like?.."

    I hope the issues r fairly resolved.
    RUBLUE's Avatar
    RUBLUE Posts: 60, Reputation: 7
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    #14

    May 21, 2006, 10:13 AM
    This issue is a long way from being resolved. And Bush putting 6000 National Guard Troops without the ability to arrest anyone is juts plain stupid. Funny & good thing. I have not heard anything about the destruction of our National Anthem lately.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #15

    May 21, 2006, 01:56 PM
    Its obvious that the powers that be don't really want a solution. This issue didn't crop up over night and the solution will not be forth coming with out a lot of public outrage.:cool: :eek:
    RUBLUE's Avatar
    RUBLUE Posts: 60, Reputation: 7
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    #16

    May 21, 2006, 03:05 PM
    Wow Starman! You are quite the historian. You seemed to have left out the Native American Indian. And the plight they suffered by my European forefathers. But even they migrated from Asia 5000+ years ago. The point is this is 2006. Reality, for many years the boundries set on this part of the North American continent is called The United States of America. It's just the way it is, and it is not going to change. And as any country like Mexico, Russia, Poland, wherever, there are rules. With all that history I find it difficult to see who you are defending. The country of Mexico and how they were wronged in the 19th century. Or illegal Mexican immigration. I find great irony in how hard it is for a American to get Mexican citizenship. I have no problem with anyone coming to the US. Just as long as they follow procedure. That's called the LAW.
    RUBLUE's Avatar
    RUBLUE Posts: 60, Reputation: 7
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    #17

    May 21, 2006, 03:17 PM
    Werefang, I am opposed to anyone coming here illegally. There is no difference whether they are from Cuba, Mexico, Canada. Your question is like asking what is worse. Paying $4,00 for a gallon of gas. Or the CEO of Exxon/Mobil making $400 million a year. It's all wrong!! But that's just me!
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,327, Reputation: 10855
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    #18

    May 21, 2006, 08:22 PM
    Is there anyone out there who if you had to walk in the shoes of an alien would do any different? Maybe we all need to think a minute, What would make so many people risk so much?:cool: :eek:
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
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    #19

    May 21, 2006, 08:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by RUBLUE
    Wow Starman!! You are quite the historian. You seemed to have left out the Native American Indian. And the plight they suffered by my European forefathers. But even they migrated from Asia 5000+ years ago. The point is this is 2006. Reality, for many years the boundries set on this part of the North American continent is called The United States of America. It's just the way it is, and it is not going to change. And as any country like Mexico, Russia, Poland, wherever, there are rules. With all that history I find it difficult to see who you are defending. The country of Mexico and how they were wronged in the 19th century. Or illegal Mexican immigration. I find great irony in how hard it is for a American to get Mexican citizenship. I have no problem with anyone coming to the US. Just as long as they follow procedure. That's called the LAW.

    You seem to be a stickler for procedure and law as long as others are the ones who are
    Required to abide by procedure and law. Otherwise why would you so nonchalantly justify land theft and ignore the role our employers have played and continue to play in creating and perpetuating the present situation by their disrespect for American procedure and law? I'm sure that you are well aware that these employers are so money hungry that they feel justified in ignoring your cherished procedures and laws by encouraging illegal immigration. These employers know that paying people a fair salary is called law and yet our employers don't give a hoot when it comes to exploiting the illegal immigrants do they? This even though they are aware that paying people such low salaries for a hard day's work is inhumane. Not employing illegals is also called law and our American employers have ignored it for decades in order to profit financially haven't they? So let's view the whole situation as it has developed and not focus on the victims and cry out for their further victimization.


    You say I am pro illegal immigration? Actually the issue isn't illegal immigration. The issue is the vehement refusal to accept Bush's suggested guest worker program or the naturalization of all honest hardworking people who are here already. That is the real issue since it involves a situation that was encouraged by our government by allowing these people to settle here while being exploited by our factories and farms and allowing them to grow in hope of a better future. That is the issue.

    About the present state of affairs, I am not denying that this is the way it is. Neither am I denying that the present boundaries enclose what are NOW the United States. Neither am I suggesting that the boundaries be changed. Also, I am not advocating that hordes of illegal immigrants be allowed to cross our border unregulated since it endangers our national security. Also, I agree that countries should not be entered illegally.

    Neither am I placing Mexico above the USA in reference to this issue of illegal immigration.
    Obviously the Mexican government has a responsibility toward its citizens which it has to address and the sooner it does so the better. However, I am not sure whether the Mexican government has the resources needed to solve this poverty problem. So it then becomes a people problem doesn't it? And when we have a people problem we have a moral duty to show compassion for those deserving our compassion and if we are unable to offer help, then we might at least try to avoid kicking in the teeth of our fellowman when our fellowman is down.

    About being a historian, in order to help them to gain a more balanced view of things,
    People who habitually get on their morally high horse in reference to legality of residence have to be reminded just how the land which they are now self-righteously disputing about was illegally acquired.


    BTW
    What is morally wrong cannot be justified merely by an appeal to passage of time.
    Starman's Avatar
    Starman Posts: 1,308, Reputation: 135
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    #20

    May 21, 2006, 09:09 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by talaniman
    Is there anyone out there who if you had to walk in the shoes of an alien would do any different? Maybe we all need to think a minute, What would make so many people risk so much?:cool: :eek:
    This fellow Lou Dobbs who regulary calls for unmerciful policies should one day wake up as a poor Mexican in need of earning a living, unable to find employement, and being faced with starvation. He should spend at least a month under those desperate circumstances. Then his identity should be restored. I'm sure he'd be singing a less vindictive song after the experience.

    Or have him spend a month working eight hours a day on the farms while being paid below minimum wage by unscrupuous money hungry-employers. That should affect his present attitude.

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