[joker123]

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

I know its not THAT bad, I'm just really worried, but thanks for telling me this it helped. What does 11/29 probation mean? I plan on going to cuba this winter, will that affect my travel plans, and can I even go out on probation? My birthday is right after court and I want to have a huge party. :S

[patt24k]

Yeah just don't miss any court dates or appointments with your probation officer and it shouldn't matter where you go. Tell your probation officer ahead of time that your leaving. 11/29 probation means 11 months and 29 days of meeting with your probation officer typically about once a month. You could be eligible for early termination of probation provided that you have complied with all of the terms of your probation after about like 6 months. But I don't know dude, if your in Canada then they might just hang you in the town square. I'm not familiar with criminal laws and minimum mandatories there.

[ScottGem]

Your probation will probably not be monitored. But if you get caught doing something wrong during the period, then the probation will be revoked. Having a birthday party shouldn't be a problem. Nor should the traveling.

[patt24k]

Yeah scotty boy is right. There is a good chance that they should put you on what is called unsupervised probation. Then you wouldn't have to report to any probation officer.

[lytenthyk]

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

[JudyKayTee]

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

He's in Canada - he's got a real good chance at diversion. This may be true in US but not in Canada.

[tickle]

We seem to be attracting some immature people to this topic and if I could up a disagree to patt24K's disagree I would. Of course on JKT's post.

Loblaws's Superstore is in Canada, they are all over Ontario, and quite large, however, very well maintained and probably have some really good inobstrusive surrveillance equipment in all their departments. I don't think very much escapes their 'eyes' and one can even locate their 'spotters' .

I don't know if the courts can keep up with this sort of activity any longer, surely something will have to be done. There are a lot of people stealing just food items, which makes this one instance so more alarming.

Two university students stealing and then worrying what their parents will think bothers me a lot. With the cost of this continuing education in Canada escalating at an alarming rate (and no doubt in the US) there probably is a lot of trust involved that kids will just buckle down and not be sideetracked by activities such as stealing. Although, I see it as a diversion, boredom, which is really bad. I would like to know if these two have all the amentities of living at home with food on the table. I know for sure there are students out there who really care what they are working towards and not taking money for education for granted living in residences where they don't have access to their parents, good meals and a friendly atmosphere.

When my son was born my husband saw the need for an investment called 'University Scholarship Fund' and started paying $60. A month from the time he was born, by the time he enrolled in college, that money had already been invested and was there for his tuition, books, possible accommodation if he needed it (he didnt) and lots of continuing education.

Off my soapbox

[tickle]

Hey, you guys are too fast. I already disagreed with a balancer on JKY's post and its already gone. Give me a break here!

Sorry JKT I hope you knew what I meant !

[joker123]

More than likely, that was the store's LP that caught you two on camera and a lot of stores have signs everywhere that says they will prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, so I'm thinking there will either be jail time and/or fines. If you get a nice judge, you two may just get a fine since this is your first offense. However, that's not a guarantee. This is just an opinion of mine so do with it what you will...

Jail time? Are you serious? How could I get jail time for this, surely they won't do anything like that, we are bot university students, it was a mistake I admit a very bad one, and it's a First offense, absolutely CLEAN record, have not even got a speeding ticket, NOTHING, I've never even spoken to a police officer in my life, so how could I possibly get jail time? Also I've read many many posts on here about theft under 5000, not one single person got jail time, most either get class, or get put into diversion. I am so freaked out that you even mentioned jail time, I really don't think that's a possibility, right? I mean even the cop said its just a slap on the wrist, he told me not to go in with shorts, to dress nice. What I envision is me and my sis standing in front of the judge, we tell our story, and she gives us either a class to attend and a fine or community service or something. I mean come on, jail time? Can't be.

[joker123]

Relax man this isnt something to lose sleep over. If its just a misdemeanor then the most they can possibly give you is 11 months and 29 days which I'm almost positive they wont give you. Don't worry about getting a paid lawyer because I don't think this is worthy of taking to trial. You will be appointed a public defender, and even though they may look a little rough, they have all of the same resources as a paid attorney. Don't pay any attention to what these other guys on here are telling you. Something this petty is not going to bar you from employment anywhere. Just keep in touch with your lawyer or public defender and things will turn out fine. I'm sure the judge will give you 11/29 probation and no jail time. Trust me I've been through this.

I live in Ontario, there's no 11/29 is there? And I doubt they will give me jail time. And about this public defender where can I contact one? Are they appointed in the court or what? Can I speak with one before the court date?

[ScottGem]

Jail time? are u serious? how could i get jail time for this, surely they wont do anything like that,

If you read the previous responses and the many other threads from young people who made the same foolish mistake, you can put your mind at ease. Canada has a diversion program like we told you. Just ask the court or your attorney about it.

[joker123]

If you read the previous responses and the many other threads from young people who made the same foolish mistake, you can put your mind at ease. Canada has a diversion program like we told you. Just ask the court or your attorney about it.

So would it be appropriate that I ask the judge this question in court? As I will not have an attorney. I have never been in court before and do not know how this will work, I can't picture everything that will happen. Can someone give me a brief playbyplay of what will happen that day of the court. And also does anyone who has had this happen to them know how long it took the store to mail them the fine letter?

[ScottGem]

No, you want to pursue a diversion BEFORE you go before a judge. As I said there are a large number of similar threads here. BEFORE your hearing visit the court and ask about a diversion, they will explain what you need to do.

[JudyKayTee]

so would it be appropriate that I ask the judge this question in court? as i will not have an attorney. I have never been in court before and do not know how this will work,. i can't picture everything that will happen. can someone give me a brief playbyplay of what will happen that day of the court. and also does anyone who has had this happen to them know how long it took the store to mail them the fine letter?

I'm quoting myself here:

"Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision. "

[joker123]

I'm quoting myself here:

"Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision. "

So then I have to visit the courthouse before the court appearance, and they can enter me into the diversion program before I ev go to court? Or they can just tell me if I am eligible etc?

[JudyKayTee]

So then I have to visit the courthouse before the court appearance, and they can enter me into the diversion program before i ev go to court? or they can just tell me if I am eligible etc?

Read it again and do what it says.

[joker123]

OK, so its been 3 weeks since the day this happened, and still I have not got anything in the mail from the store regarding a fine? They said they would send me a fine in the mail for about 200-300 dollars and still nothing and my court date is in 2 weeks. Is it going to come? Or were they just scaring me?

[JudyKayTee]

ok, so its been 3 weeks since the day this happened, and still I have not got anything in the mail from the store regarding a fine? They said they would send me a fine in the mail for about 200-300 dollars and still nothing and my court date is in 2 weeks. Is it going to come? or were they just scaring me?

You must have misunderstood - the STORE cannot fine you. Only the Court can fine you.

Did the Court say they would tell you how much you owe THEM (not a fine) - restitution - ?

[joker123]

You must have misunderstood - the STORE cannot fine you. Only the Court can fine you.

Did the Court say they would tell you how much you owe THEM (not a fine) - restitution - ?

I'm not saying they CAN fine you but they try to by sending you it in the mail but they haven't yet so I'm confused as to why not since they even said I will.

[JudyKayTee]

im not saying they CAN fine you but they try to by sending you it in the mail but they havent yet so im confused as to why not since they even said I will.

Once again - they CANNOT fine you. There would be no reason to send you what they claim is a notice to pay a fine. That's against the Law on their part.

There would be no reason to tell you they CAN fine you. They CAN ask you to pay restitution. That is something different than a fine - basically it's payment to them for their time/trouble/lost merchandise.

They CANNOT legally send you a "fine" in the mail and "try" to fine you.

You misunderstood.

I have no idea why they said they would send you some sort of bill and have not - I'm sure you will find out when you go to Court.

Maybe they dropped the whole thing. No one knows but the store and perhaps the Court.