[Credendovidis]

I found this comment and link on the Internet, and I agree with both of them :

Sometimes the religious bigotry that one encounters day-to-day can seem overwhelming. Then one stumbles upon a little gem such as this. YouTube publisher 'patcondell' delights rationally thinking audiences with his video titled "What's Good About Religion? "

I hope you enjoy this as much as I have. He makes some wonderful points and I am particularly fond of his remark as follows:

“This is supposed to be a positive video and I don't want to ruin it by dwelling on the negative things, the selective reasoning, the wishful thinking and the shameless abandonment of personal responsibility that religious belief embraces.”

Enjoy Pat Condell, he is a wellknown and valued commentator and his audio's and video's are short (6 minutes) and non-aggressive , though clearly making a point.

Your reactions are welcome !

Link to : What is good about religion ?

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[Alty]

Cred, I tried to view it but I couldn't, my computer wouldn't open the link. :(

I'll do a Google search and comment later, if I can find it on Google. :)

[tawnynkids]

the selective reasoning, the wishful thinking and the shameless abandonment of personal responsibility that religious belief embraces.”

What on earth makes you believe people who have a relationship with Jesus Christ are automatically guilty of any of those things?

[progunr]

Interesting.

I was however going to answer the question this way, before I knew it was really not a question but a link to this instead.

1. It gives an individual someone/thing (the devil) to blame their bad behavior on.
2. It gives an individual someone/thing (God) to ask for help or forgiveness.

It would seem that my opinion is in line with the author, as it is a way to sort of shift, if even only slightly, away from personal responsibility, for things that happen in an individuals life, giving them the devil to blame, and God to help or forgive.

[inthebox]

Funny Cred

I'll paraphrase : I like Christianity because it is not Islam. But a negative... it is Christianity. :)


Buddism: you have to love a religion without a God :)


----------------------------------------

As to your quote - I'm not quite sure what religion that is but,

As a Christian:

It takes personal responsibility to aknowledge that I am a sinner. I can't be "good" enough on my own to meet God's standard [ Matthew 5 ], maybe my own much lower standard but not His.

I rely on God's grace and mercy for forgiveness.

The NT is full of teachings about a Christ followers responsibility to the poor the widows, the orphans the sick, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, reply with good to fight evil etc... wonderful things! :D

[Galveston1]

I don't know which religion you are aiming at, as there are literally millions, with less, but still many that are fairly well known. Jesus Christ is not a religion, so I assume you are not referring to Him? Right?

[Alty]

Okay, I finally got to see it, darn computer. ;)

I liked it, found him to be very funny, still have a smile on my face, and after all "laughter is the best medicine". :)

[Credendovidis]

What on earth makes you believe people who have a relationship with Jesus Christ are automatically guilty of any of those things?

Please read the topic starter post again : where did I state that "people who have a relationship with Jesus Christ are automatically guilty of any of those things?"??

Note that only the first and last 2 lines are from me. The rest is quoted from the website where I found the link. With these words I fully agree.

With your twisted words I do not agree at all.

:rolleyes:

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[Credendovidis]

....The NT is full of teachings about a Christ followers responsibility to the poor the widows, the orphans the sick, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, reply with good to fight evil etc... wonderful things!

Sure. But also full of "if not, than ....", full of hell and damnation, of burning into eternity, etc.
And the first part of the bible - the OT - is full of violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. all condoned - if not supported and incited - by that same deity in the NT.

Your deity is not exactly Nobel peace price material...

:rolleyes:

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[Credendovidis]

Okay, I finally got to see it, darn computer.

Glad to see you made it in the end, and that you liked it.
There are about another 30 audio and video articles from Pat Condell, almost all of the same high quality of content, argumentation, and tolerance, and still at the same time making excellent points to ponder for all...

:)

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[inthebox]

Sure. But also full of "if not, than ....", full of hell and damnation, of burning into eternity, etc.
And the first part of the bible - the OT - is full of violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. , all condoned - if not supported and incited - by that same deity in the NT.

Your deity is not exactly Nobel peace price material ....

:rolleyes:

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True Cred


The OT also has David, an adulterer, a murderer, [ of course he takes responsibility Psalm 51 ] but still considered God's own child.

The God I believe in also is merciful and forgiving. :D

[Credendovidis]

True Cred. The OT also has David, an adulterer, a murderer, [ of course he takes responsibility Psalm 51 ] but still considered God's own child. The God I believe in also is merciful and forgiving.

Nevertheless please explain me where all this negativism in the OT and even in the NT is coming from. How can a "perfect" entity condone, support, and even incite all that violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc.?

:rolleyes:

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[mountain_man]

Nevertheless please explain me where all this negativism in the OT and even in the NT is coming from. How can a "perfect" entity condone, support, and even incite all that violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. ???

:rolleyes:

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How can we even ponder to answer that question when we are far from "all knowing or understanding" This side of Heaven and meeting our maker we cannot answer these questions BUT

What about what Jesus Christ did for us, all sinners, when He died on the cross so that we could have eternal life. It is a supreme gift, that is IF you believe in a afterlife and God for that matter.

The video was tolerable because he was speaking about organized religion and not a personal relationship with our Savior and Creator. Organized religion is no doubt way off the mark in many different ways but the Bible says 'that Christ is the church and we are his hands and feet" it doesn't say the warehouse down the street that pushes catholisicm is the real church. I also find it interesting that his very last comment on the video is a supremely wise passage from the... Bible.

I propose we follow the teachings in the Bible and understand the Truth within it and leave the precepts of organized religion alone.

[Galveston1]

Nevertheless please explain me where all this negativism in the OT and even in the NT is coming from. How can a "perfect" entity condone, support, and even incite all that violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. ???

:rolleyes:

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You are blaming the wrong "entity". You attribute to the Creator those acts done by a lesser "entity", i.e. Satan. Since you wrote it, that constitutes libel. You are going to NEED am attorney licensed to practice before God's bar of justice. May I recommend the best?

[Credendovidis]

You are blaming the wrong "entity". You attribute to the Creator those acts done by a lesser "entity", ie, Satan. Since you wrote it, that constitutes libel. You are going to NEED am attorney licensed to practice before God's bar of justice. May I recommend the best?

A "perfect" entity (God) is claimed to have created people and satan and everything else.
And as a "perfect" creator God can only create perfect things. If they create imperfect things the creator can not have been perfect itself to start with.

:)

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[inthebox]

Lexington Herald-Leader : Crusading ex-Pa. lawmaker takes in sex offenders


Tom Armstrong said he is drawing on his religious belief in forgiveness and sheltering the three men until he can open a halfway house for sex offenders...


Over the past two decades, he also took in homeless veterans, and more recently he has been a mentor to ex-cons...

Verse from Jeremiah: "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sin no more."

This caught my eye, because it shows "the good" of someone acting on his faith.

I am not as courageuos, but I admire the person that can do the tough things that the Bible [ the Christian religion ] asks us to do. :)

[Credendovidis]

This caught my eye, because it shows "the good" of someone acting on his faith. I am not as courageuos, but I admire the person that can do the tough things that the Bible [ the Christian religion ] asks us to do.

Nobody suggests everything about religion is bad.
But how "good" is religion actually ?
And is Christianity in that respect any different than any other religion? Or Secular Humanism?

:rolleyes:

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[inthebox]

How do you define "good."

What is good about religion was your original question. I gave you an example.

You can look up all the Christian charities and hospitals - I'll leave that leg work up to you.

I, as a Christian, am only concerned with God's description of "good" - Read the book of Romans, or Galatians or James or 1 John.

Also Christianity is about salvation - that is the "ultimate good."

Do secular humanists have a "salvation" equivalent?

Do secular humanists have an "ideal" behavior? What if you can't meet those standards?
Are these ideals and standards the same among secular humanists?

[Credendovidis]

What is good about religion was your original question. I gave you an example. You can look up all the Christian charities and hospitals - I'll leave that leg work up to you.

With the US society claiming in great majority to be Christian, it is not surprising that the majority of such organizations are Christian. So that is no argument, as I never stated that Christians as group are "no good". I asked in the last post : how "good" is religion actually ?

I, as a Christian, am only concerned with God's description of "good"...

So your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be right. I am concerned with the reality, with the question if religions are "good" or not.

Also Christianity is about salvation - that is the "ultimate good."

So again : your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be good. (Salvation is a religious claim). Also you BELIEVE that salvation is the "ultimate good." But is salvation more than just a belief, and is it the "ultimate good."??

Do secular humanists have a "salvation" equivalent?

No they don't, because they do not see any need for "salvation" as reality.

Do secular humanists have an "ideal" behavior? what if you can't meet those standards?

The golden rule. Appliable to everyone and valid as such.

Are these ideals and standards the same among secular humanists?

Should be. I see no reason to think differently. Note : not every non-believer is an Atheist. Not every Atheist is a Secular Humanist. Please use capitals to describe these groups of world views. I do my best to use capitals to describe religions.

How do you define "good."

Easy to ask, difficult to answer. "Good" in the sense as appropriate on the Religious Discussion Board is based on the intention not to harm others deliberately.
The golden rule says it all : "do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you."
And anyone who seriously has that intention is "good", though never "perfect".

:rolleyes:

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[Galveston1]

Not sure where Cred gets his version of the golden rule, as it is from the negative, which is consistent with several religions. What Jesus said differs in that it is totally positive.

Matt 7:12
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
(KJV)