[orange]

Wow that's a really interesting theory, DrJizzle... defense mechanisms. I never thought of it in that context before, but it sounds really plausible. Especially if your beliefs or faith form the whole basis for your life.

Anyway thanks so much for sharing! I couldn't give you any rep. Guess I already gave you some today! :p

[jduke44]

Orange, I think a lot of what is said in this thread is true. I think pride has a lot to do with it on both sides. I also think a little of zeal for God or their belief system and thinking they are doing or saying the right thing.

As far as Christians feeling the need or mandate to convert is true. They way it should be done, however, is more by action than by words. Preaching and talking is needed, but if it isn't backed up by "good" action than it is worthless. There is a saying "Show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works".

I think the main problem is everyone is fighting for their rights to be able to say what they want to say and in doing so takes away someone else's rights by saying you can't say that. To me that is pride clear and simple.

There was a case on TV today that a validvictorian (sorry about the spelling) got cut off her speech because she wanted to say that God got her where she was. This is in no way infringing on anyone's beliefs. Why can't she say this? SHe feels this to be true and no one can deny this. They wouldn't have cut her off if she said Joe Shmoe got her there. Everyone cheered and then when they cut her off everyone booed. To me that is pride of the school district of not checking into the matter of whether this is permissiable. As soon as God is mentioned automatically that denies their free speech. In case anyone wants to debate this, there are many cases that the decision of the school district was overturned because it was unconstitutional to deny them of their free speech to mention God in their speech.

[orange]

Great answer, Jduke! I think pride has a lot to do with it too... it takes humility to back down and not try to be "better" and "right" all the time. And I most heartily agree that actions speak louder than words. Actually I feel sorry for people who share their religious beliefs and then ultimately get nasty and defensive about them. To me being nasty and intolerant cancels out anything you've said about your beliefs. Anyone can "talk the talk" but "walking the walk" is the hard part.

That's really sad about the valedictorian. She should have been allowed to mention her beliefs. I agree it's a violation of free speech and intolerant. I think things have gotten way out of hand as far as restricting beliefs, not allowing holiday celebrations in schools, etc. I like what our city has done, actually; rather than remove all beliefs from public schools, at holiday times, Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, etc... are all mentioned and celebrated in the schools by the kids. So that way no kids feel left out, and they all get to learn about others and learn tolerance, too.

Anyway thanks for a great answer!

[valinors_sorrow]

Respect for others is a tough concept for some folks. People erroneously think that if they treat someone badly, it reflects on the someone treated badly and not on themselves, which is absurd. Another good one is if they are mad, they think if they can make someone else angry, they will have in essence given away their anger, which is silly since it just makes two mad people instead! Denial is not the exclusive domain of alkies and addicts, I am sorry to report, LOL.

As to why people like to play "my god's bigger than your god" - I would guess has roots in the original "my daddy's bigger than your daddy" and that, I believe is all about a very important topic: SURVIVAL!

Hence all the energy on it.

Some people threaten more easily than others, and the rest of us have been tested and know. :p

[livetolive29]

From talking with different people of different religions, faiths, etc. My experience seems to be that as soon as you mention something that someone else doesn't agree with or believe in, believes in the opposite they take offense to it as questioning their belief system - not just their religion, and in their nature they must rise up and defend themselves as you would if you were under attack.

There is a way to have a non-violent (verbal or otherwise) conversation about religion, but BOTH or ALL sides must be open-minded and learn to accept or at the very least hear the other sides out.

I see so many arguments between different groups, but what surprises me the most is those that are religious and we'll take Christians, but they are not alone. Christians will fight and defend their beliefs to no end, and that's good, but the bad is when they get stuck or can't answer a question, instead of going "you know, I never thought of like that, I don't know the answer, but let me find out what the church believes or "here's what I believe" they resort to calling the person who questioned their beliefs names, and some nasty names.

Also I'm not sure there's a true neutral medium in religion. Because regardless of what you say, no matter how hard you try to stay neutral you'll be speaking on your beliefs or the beliefs of a religion that you follow.

Example: I have had many conversations with religious folks, with non-religious folks and with atheists. I'd be part of the non-religious group, and hesitate to solidify with one specific non-religious group, but I'm not an atheist. I can discuss religion for as long as we want to, but one of us usually gets tired and wants to stop the conversation. More times than not the religious person to conclude, or if they have not an answer
"Well that maybe, but the bible is the word of the lord, you can't argue with that."

In which I actually tell them I can and if they'd like to know why. But two problems here, using the word argue they've now moved into a more aggressive. Because now it's a you say, I say.

The atheist usually says something like: Well, you can believe want you want to believe, but there is no God, and no holy book and I have proof why."

Well, Science hasn't proven there is no God, Science has yet to disprove it. On the same count religious folks have yet to prove there's a god. I understand that a lot Christians accept and trust that there is a God need not proof - that's fine, but then they can't continually say that truly is a God. Belief and Truth are not the same.

Where I usually conclude with "Well, I think God would want acceptance and this/that over religion"

So who's right and who's wrong? Okay, trick question - No one is wrong, and everyone is right, or everyone is wrong and no one is right. The bottom line no one knows...

Wait... before I continue Think back to the start of this - Do you agree with everything I'm saying, part of it or any of it? Probably not.

That there lies the problem, because I'm speaking on personal beliefs mixed with the beliefs that I have associate with in different religions, and experiences. Just as your beliefs personal or otherwise will influence how defend and/or how to discuss religion.

We can only speak form our own experiences and what our heart truly tells us. You have a choice to become part of religion, it might be a subconscious choice or a one made clear, but regardless if you are or are not religious or if you do or don't believe in God or multiple Gods it's hard to be neutral because of the beliefs you already have and the length and depth of the discussion.