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    mwelka's Avatar
    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Aug 11, 2008, 08:42 PM
    Spruce bud moth?
    Is there anyone that can identify a moth? I have good photo's of it. This moth is about 35 miles south of Great Falls, Montana. The web is literally covering every tree on our property.. 20 acres as well as everywhere I look. Even across the river in the National Forest. I think it may be the spruce bud moth. There are thousands of them at night.. so we can't even sit outside on the deck in the evening. They started coming out about 2 weeks ago and now they are really thick! I don't even know how we could even spray our trees to rid them of this infestation. 20 acres is a lot of trees. The moth is rather small and is pale beige to whitish. When it gets indoors it is not like a dusty miller moth that flutters around constantly above a light. It will just land near a light and stay. I am hoping they will not be back next year. We have had this property for 20 years and I have seen something similar to this about 15 years ago but not anywhere this bad. The fishing is great because of it though! Please let me know what this is... Thanks
    jrebel7's Avatar
    jrebel7 Posts: 1,255, Reputation: 251
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    #2

    Aug 12, 2008, 12:00 AM
    Hi there Mwelka! Are you aware as to how to post an image on this thread? If not, let us know and someone will be happy to share with you how to do so. If you have an image of the moth posted, it would probably get more precise answers to your questions. As I say, just let us know here. Someone will help you.

    Not sure if this link will help any but might be a place to start.

    spruce bud moth photo - Google Image Search

    If you click on each image, it will give you more information in text.


    In California, there is an area where Monarch butterflies migrate to at one time of the year and literally cover the trees. I see them as I travel the turnpike, just in droves flying toward our vehicle, on their way to California. It may be something similar happening with the moths. It will be interesting to read later posts!! Glad you posted!
    WVHiflyer's Avatar
    WVHiflyer Posts: 384, Reputation: 34
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    #3

    Aug 12, 2008, 01:51 AM
    Here are pics of 2 moths. The lighter is an Eastern tent caterpillar adult. The other is Zeiraphera canadensis (photo f/: Thérèse Arcand, Natural Resources Canada, Canadian Forest Service, Laurentian Forestry Centre)

    The E tent is not likely your pest but seemed to fit you description better. The Z. canadensis Main host(s): Black spruce, white spruce
    Needles chewed along their margins, or cut off at the base, gradually take on a reddish colour. Although the caterpillars primarily attack apical shoots without any serious consequences during their early development, older caterpillars cause more damage since they are especially fond of the tender bark of twigs, and this leads to shoot breakage during rainfall or heavy winds.

    The damage it causes is often confused with that wreaked by the spruce budworm. However, Zeiraphera canadensis differs from the spruce budworm in that it prefers to feed on open-growing spruce rather than spruce in forests.

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    (Sorry if this isn't quite coherent... I need to get to sleep <G>)
    mwelka's Avatar
    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Aug 12, 2008, 09:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by mwelka
    Is there anyone that can identify a moth? I have good photo's of it. This moth is about 35 miles south of Great Falls, Montana. The web is literally covering every tree on our property..20 acres as well as everywhere I look. Even across the river in the National Forest. I think it may be the spruce bud moth. There are thousands of them at night..so we can't even sit outside on the deck in the evening. They started coming out about 2 weeks ago and now they are really thick! I don't even know how we could even spray our trees to rid them of this infestation. 20 acres is a lot of trees. The moth is rather small and is pale beige to whitish. When it gets indoors it is not like a dusty miller moth that flutters around constantly above a light. It will just land near a light and stay. I am hoping they will not be back next year. We have had this property for 20 years and I have seen something similar to this about 15 years ago but not anywhere this bad. The fishing is great because of it though! Please let me know what this is... Thanks
    Sorry... but I do not know how to insert a photo. If you could kindly tell me I can do it right away. I already have them in jpeg format under 200k. Thanks
    mwelka's Avatar
    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Aug 12, 2008, 09:47 AM
    Ok... I think I figured it out. Here is one photo of it. I have 2 others following
    Attached Images
     
    mwelka's Avatar
    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #6

    Aug 12, 2008, 09:48 AM
    Here is the second photo
    Attached Images
     
    mwelka's Avatar
    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Aug 12, 2008, 09:49 AM
    Here is the third photo
    Attached Images
     
    jrebel7's Avatar
    jrebel7 Posts: 1,255, Reputation: 251
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    #8

    Aug 12, 2008, 10:24 AM
    The images you posted were amazing. I found a link that has images and locations.

    Welcome! | Butterflies and Moths of North America

    If I had time this morning, I would dig deeper into the site. I have out-of-state guests coming so have to get busy this morning. I hope this link helps. If not, I will research later after company leave. I will also alert another friend whose research skills are some of the best I know of. Looks like flyer is on it also and so maybe between all of us, an answer will be found!!
    firmbeliever's Avatar
    firmbeliever Posts: 2,919, Reputation: 463
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    #9

    Aug 12, 2008, 12:31 PM
    Thank you Jan for directing me here.

    Mwelka,
    You have taken some beautiful photographs of a beautiful moth.

    Could your moth be this?
    -----------------------------
    Micro Moths
    Ebulea crocealis

    This little micro-moth, with a forewing of only about 10mm, has more than a passing similarity to the Fan-foot macro moths. See the Fan-foot image on Macro Moths page 1. In particular it is often confused with the paler coloured 'Clay Fan-foot'.

    The main distinguishing feature is that this micro does not have the straight line across the trailing edge of the wings. Instead, it has a dark line running down the front part of the forewing. The two apparent lines flowing back from the head creating an inner 'A' shape are, in fact, its antennae.
    ---------------------------------



    Or maybe this?
    -----------------------------------
    Macro Moths Page 4
    Common White Wave
    Cabera pusaria

    For me, the clue to the Common White Wave's identity lies in the continuous smooth curves of the crosslines on the wings. The slightly smaller Common Wave has a creamier appearance and less distinct crosslines. In other Wave species these lines tend to be irregular with bends and kinks.

    Although regarded as a two generation species in the south, May/June and July/August, the generations tend to merge and in some parts it is found from May to September.

    I regard the specimen on the right, seen on the 3rd July, as a newly hatched 2nd generation moth on account of the pristine satin sheen on its wings. The feathered antennae indicate that it is a male.

    The larvae feed on Silver Birc, Alder and Sallow.
    --------------------------------------------

    Could it be a Wave moth? Moth Photographers Group -- Bob Belmont's Geometridae 41

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
    jrebel7's Avatar
    jrebel7 Posts: 1,255, Reputation: 251
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    #10

    Aug 12, 2008, 01:28 PM
    Firmy, you never cease to amaze me in your research skills. Thank you so much and I know Mwelka will appreciate it so much! You're the best little friend!! :)
    firmbeliever's Avatar
    firmbeliever Posts: 2,919, Reputation: 463
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    #11

    Aug 12, 2008, 01:31 PM
    Awww.. thank you Jan!
    mwelka's Avatar
    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #12

    Aug 12, 2008, 01:44 PM
    Firmbeliever... I am still at a loss. Information on the Ebulea crocealis is only from the UK and Belgium. Plus reading further, this moth eats new shoots on quite a few plants. On the Cabera pusaria... they feed on birch alder and sallow.

    The infestation we have is only on the spruce trees. That is why I thought it might be a spruce bud moth. We have other types of pine trees, junipers and cedar trees but they aren't touching these trees. The tip of almost every branch on every spruce tree is brown from the dead pine needles that it looks like the laid their larva on. In the evening just past sunset the moths come out of the trees and are everywhere.

    I am not sure they are attracted by light because I found the entire wall of the outhouse covered with about 500 of these at one time. When they get into the cabin... only because they are sticking on our clothes... they fly to a wall with light and do not flutter around once they have landed.

    In the morning I find a lot of dead ones on the deck of our cabin. The ones that got into the cabin also die during the night.

    What concerns me the most is the effect they are having on our spruce trees. It gives the whold forest a brownish tinge on the trees. If it were only a few trees I don't think I would be concerned about it. But, the National forest across the river is also totally in a brownish tinge. As well as our neighbors on either side of us who have 70 acres.

    The fishing is great with these moths flying about and the bats and sparrows are all over... so I think they might be good for them, but not the trees. Anyway, I hope that more information will help in identifing this moth. I have googled spruce bud moth photo's and all they ever come up with is the worm which I have not seen.

    Also, this is happening about 35 miles south of Great Falls Montana in the Little Belt Mountains

    Thanks... mwelka
    mwelka's Avatar
    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Aug 12, 2008, 02:20 PM
    Ok... I just thought about picking up the phone and I called the Montana Fish & Game Dept. They had me call Helena National Forest Service. They put me in touch with a specialist that informed me that this is a Western Spruce Bud Moth. It attacks only Douglas Firs and Spruce trees. The moths will be gone in about 2 more weeks (after they laid their eggs again) and the trees will bud out next year like normal. Then the eggs will develop into worms and the cycle will start again. This might go on for 1 or 2 years and it will stop when there is a change in moisture, cold, heat or something that will disturb their cycle. She also told me that most trees will be OK but a handful will die. Nothing to be worried about. She also told me that we could do an aireal spraying of a spray called BT. I worry about spraying 20 acres of something I know nothing about, so it probably won't happen. I don't want to hurt the birds and the owls that live in our forest. Not to mention the Golden Eagles, Bald Eagles and Osprey that fly by every day. Plus we are right on a river and I don't want to worry about the spray harming the fish either.

    I still wish I could have seen a photo of it on the web that matched mine for a positive identification.

    Thanks for everyone's help.. . mwelka
    WVHiflyer's Avatar
    WVHiflyer Posts: 384, Reputation: 34
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    #14

    Aug 13, 2008, 08:04 AM
    Your great pics made me stubbornly curious so I did another search. The closest I could come up with was the pic below. My suggestion was going to be to call Univ Agricultural Extension (glad you did). But with pic below, can see how hard it is sometimes to ID moths...

    Name:  moth.bmp
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    Horned Spanworm Moth Nematocampa resistaria
    Males vary from having dark blotches to having none - described by Ferguson as “brown markings well developed to obsolescent”. Such markings are geographically variable that has led to them being named as separate subspecies and species.
    Deciduous forests and coniferous forests. Larvae feed on many hardwoods and several softwood species
    jrebel7's Avatar
    jrebel7 Posts: 1,255, Reputation: 251
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    #15

    Aug 13, 2008, 10:26 AM
    mwelka, I am so glad you found answers by calling the Fish and Game Dept. I was remiss by not suggesting that. I apologize. We have an Extension Dept. in our town from one of the Universities in our state and they will test your soil and help identify certain pests, etc. I just didn't think of it. Thank you for sharing. I know you have more peace of mind about it. Seeing that much webbing on the trees would have freaked me out! Who knows how many people your post will help. Best to you.
    firmbeliever's Avatar
    firmbeliever Posts: 2,919, Reputation: 463
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    #16

    Aug 13, 2008, 11:04 AM
    Flyer,
    That is wonderful! It looks almost like the one Mwelka posted except for the color.
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    mwelka Posts: 8, Reputation: 1
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    #17

    Aug 13, 2008, 10:06 PM
    Omg... the photo that FLYER put up does look almost exactly like mine. The one I took was taken at night with a flash. I have looked on line at the western spruce bud moth and it doesn't look like mine. Now I am wondering if the person I talked with knew what she was talking about. I think I am going to make more phone calls in the morning and see if I can email my photo's to this person for a positive id. I will not be a happy camper until I find out. Thanks for your post Flyer... mwelka

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