[Alty]

Well when I get around to changing it I will have to look Tweety up.

This one goes well with your island theme :)

[N0help4u]

I feel a conspiracy here Cred0 just told me I need a Tweety altvar...
Am I being ganged up on??

[Alty]

I feel a conspiracy here Cred0 just told me I need a Tweety altvar.....
am I being ganged up on???

No, no, I saw your post where you said you'd look for a tweetie avy, just thought I'd help. :)

[jrebel7]

Sweet Alty, I just ran onto your thread. I read several pages. It is always interesting to me how other's believe and why.

I would like to just share a thought:

You sought to know your father and he communed and communicated with you for many years. You came to truly know his heart and he knew yours. A letter or note is jotted down by someone who knows your father personally and another person finds it and reads it. It makes no sense to them and they toss it aside saying it had no relevance to their life and appeared to be conflicting. You see them toss it aside and you pick it up. You read it and because your father had someone else jot it down for him at his bequest, you knew without a doubt that it was his words being written to you from his heart. You totally understood what was written and there was no conflict because you KNEW your father and his love. It all made perfect sense to you. For you, it would be difficult to read that note and understand how anyone could ever misunderstand that note or think it was conflicted. You had placed your trust in your father and you trusted his words, though they were written by someone else at his request. You took a leap of faith as a little child to jump into his arms even though it didn't make sense to you. It looked to you that you would fall and be hurt terribly but your dad kept saying to trust him, he would not let you down so you chose to trust him and you jumped and true to his word, he caught you and it was wonderful fun!!! (Granted not all earthly dads show this kind of love for their children that yours did but when they do, how much easier it is to understand the love a Heavenly Father could have for us.)

I placed my trust in God through His son Jesus and what He did on the cross a long time ago. I read His word, though written by others inspired by God to write it. But God is the one who spoke truth to my heart as I read the Bible. I can read one scripture and it holds little for me on a given day yet on another day, I read the same verse and God ministers His truth of that scripture to my heart. I know it is true for that day and that circumstance as well as I know my name. I took a leap of faith when I felt God quietly speak to me (not audibly) but still I knew He was saying to trust Him, receive Him, allow Him to be a part of my life and let him catch me even when I think I might fall because He will be true to His word and He has been.

My daughter-in-law was raised Catholic as you mentioned you were, school, church and home. She knew about God. She knew scriptures, she knew the Bible stories, she knew what she had been taught to believe but gradually, she began to read the Bible on her own to find out what was truth to her, not to her parents or to her church but to her. God spoke to her heart and she asked God to forgive her sins and come into her life. I was not there during that time as she lives in another state but she shared with her husband that she felt she had been cheated all those years. It is different knowing all about God and knowing him personally, sort of like someone knowing about your daddy but not really knowing him personally. It makes all the difference in the world. She has blossomed into a person, different from the one that I first came to know.

(Please understand I am not saying that Catholics do not know God personally. I just shared one story of one person who went through the motions but it was never real to her until she began to seek God in a personal way to have a personal relationship with Him. This happens in all kinds of churches and being in church doesn't make one a Christian any more than being in a barn, makes one a horse or cow or chicken or even a farmer.) LOL

No one can convince another to change their beliefs. I can share, you can share, all these other friends can share what is in our hearts with one another but ultimately, it is up to each of us to choose our path of belief.

I love to share my faith with others. Like you, I choose not to argue. It serves no purpose. We each choose as I say. Thanks for letting me share. You know me Alty, I tend to write epics!!!!!!!! : )

[N0help4u]

No, no, I saw your post where you said you'd look for a tweetie avy, just thought I'd help. :)

:D I guess I am ganging up on me too :eek:

[Unknown008]

My daughter-in-law was raised Catholic as you mentioned you were, school, church and home.

Just to raise a point of me. I personally don't really like catholism. That's because in EVERY catholic church I know, I can see a sculpture of Jesus on the cross, or some virgin of some sort, etc. That goes in contradiction to the word of God, which says that you shall not glorify any idol. Am I right?

She knew about God. She knew scriptures, she knew the Bible stories, she knew what she had been taught to believe but gradually, she began to read the Bible on her own to find out what was truth to her, not to her parents or to her church but to her. God spoke to her heart and she asked God to forgive her sins and come into her life. I was not there during that time as she lives in another state but she shared with her husband that she felt she had been cheated all those years. It is different knowing all about God and knowing him personally, sort of like someone knowing about your daddy but not really knowing him personally. It makes all the difference in the world. She has blossomed into a person, different from the one that I first came to know.

I agree totally!

[jrebel7]

Hey there Uncky, I think we can find something in all churches that we don't agree with. For me, I had to just find the church that I agreed the most with, that I felt went along with what I understood about the Bible as I studied it and that the people (as much as is within them) practice what they preach!! LOL Goodness, I fall short there at times. I am just thankful that I know God and His love and mercy and forgiveness and He does guide me although I do get stubborn in my spirit at times and rebel a bit.

That human part of me sure does get in the way sometimes. LOL

Ideally, I would combine a couple of churches and be real happy because one puts into practice one thing that for me I feel is important but not another and vice versa. We don't live in a perfect world that's for sure and no church is perfect. But still, we come here and share and that is a positive and good thing and I am so thankful for this site and thankful I have met you here.

While I believe that being active in a church encourages one to study the Bible more perhaps and is a great place to have a healthy exchange of ideas and most churches meet some needs that arise in families, I do not believe one has to be in a church every time the door is open to be a witness for the Lord or to minister to peoples needs. I think the church is a great base and perhaps attending might keep me more grounded as the world throws things my way, but I was at home when I asked God in Jesus Name to forgive my sins and come into my heart and be my Lord and Savior.

We live by a highway and we have had numerous people come to our door, either out of gas or with a flat tire or needing to use our phone and we welcome those anytime we can help because we do believe that God led us to buy the house where we live now to help others in need. We even had a guy come recently to our door late at night that his truck had been torched with him in it and he had been burned but ran all the way to our house. We were able to calm him and pray with him until help arrived. But one day, we were getting ready to go to church and the door bell rang. I was busy getting ready and later my husband came in and I asked who was at the door. He said it was a guy walking and asking directions to the Mission downtown. I asked if he invited him in. He said NO, we are getting ready to go to church. I think he and I both "GOT IT" about the same time when I said, "Why are we going to church? We are to help and love people. Where did he go?" Well, we got in the car and told the guy if he wanted to go to church with us, we would gladly take him to the mission after church which he did and we called ahead so they would have a hot meal and clean bed for the man when we took him after church. It was a real eye opener in one way to see a person in need but being caught up in the act of going to church. LOL Our children were small and I think was a great time of teaching that we are to love people and help meet their needs when we can and that God gives us opportunities if we are just in tune to them. God is good and a gracious God... I sure would be in sad shape other wise!! LOL

[sndbay]

Post #124

I would like to just share a thought

No one can convince another to change their beliefs. I can share, you can share, all these other friends can share what is in our hearts with one another but ultimately, it is up to each of us to choose our path of belief.

Ownership for your choice and path in life. Responsibility and Accountability for those choices. I very much enjoyed the thoughts you shared.

~ Child of God

[jrebel7]

Post #124



Ownership for your choice and path in life. Responsibility and Accountability for those choices. I very much enjoyed the thoughts you shared.

~ Child of God

Thank you sndbay! I am always so wordy! You basically put it in a nutshell. Thank you! :p

[Alty]

Actually Rebbie, I wasn't raised Catholic, I just went to Catholic school, because that's where my friends went and I wanted to be with them. I was ostracized from everything regarding their beliefs because I wasn't Catholic, that's why I'm against organized religion for myself.

Officially I was raised as part of the Lutheran church, in a way. We did attend church twice a year, christmas and easter, but that's it. My parents didn't shove religion down my throat, they did believe in God and told me so, but they very much believed that I had to find my own way, my own beliefs, and they gave me the freedom to do so, I will forever be thankful to them for letting me be who I am. :)

Some info about me;

10 years of catholic school opened my eyes to man made beliefs, because, to me, that's what they are. I was considered a bastard in their eyes, because my parents weren't married in the catholic church, because my mother refused to convert. My parents where married in the Lutheran church, and were told by a catholic priest that in the eyes of God they weren't really married and all their children (I'm the only one) would be bastards.

While attending catholic school there were many times when the entire school went to catholic services. I was not allowed to receive communion, because I'm not catholic. That gave the kids and sadly the teachers another reason to ostracize me. My father even went to the church to speak with the priest, tell him that I was being bullied because I wasn't catholic. The priests response "If you baptized her in the catholic religion then she wouldn't have these problems, but until her soul is saved there's nothing I can do". All this because of a simple wafer bought in the local store.

I'm not trying to make anyone here accept my beliefs, I'm simply trying to understand why so many people put stock in a book written by man, in an institution run by man, I simply don't understand why.

I know that I will never find a church that accepts my views, nor do I wish to search for one. I have read the bible and do not see the work of God, but the stories of men. I do not preach to my children, I simply tell them what I believe and then accept whatever path they choose. If my children grow up not believing, if that is what they choose then that's okay with me. They are good kids, they have empathy for every living thing in this world, they know love and give love, they are kind and intelligent, and really, in the end, isn't that what matters most?

I respect everyone's right to believe what they want. I guess I'm just trying to find my place in this, where I stand, because I've never met anyone with the same beliefs as me.

Thank you all for responding, I value every thought. I don't always agree, but I do value what you say and I respect what you believe. :)

[Credendovidis]

I respect everyone's right to believe what they want.

That's the spirit ! Nobody should be forced to believe something he/she does not or can not support.
Unfortunately the more fundamental people are, the less tolerant they become to other people's right to believe whatever they prefer. The post about non-Christian being referred to as non-belief spoke volumes...

Thank you all for responding, I value each and every thought. I don't always agree, but I do value what you say and I respect what you believe.

The pleasure was in this case all mine, and I fully agree with what you stated.

:)

·

[JoeCanada76]

10 years of catholic school opened my eyes to man made beliefs, because, to me, that's what they are. I was considered a bastard in their eyes, because my parents weren't married in the catholic church, because my mother refused to convert. My parents where married in the Lutheran church, and were told by a catholic priest that in the eyes of God they weren't really married and all their children (I'm the only one) would be bastards.


:)

Alty,

With all do respect.. Just because Some priests or churches had that belief, does not mean that, that belief comes from the bible. It comes from man... Not all catholic churches are the same and not all the preists are the same. I have had many unusual and not so good experiances at church, but it almost feels as if bad talk of catholic is norm. Not all catholics feel the same and not all of the practises are the same or beliefs from church to church or priest to priest.

For instance, my mom had a divorce, from my father because he was a cheater and drunk. Legit reasons for separation. Years later, she wanted to get married in the catholic church.. Catholic church refused and said she could not get remarried in the church because she is still considered married in the eyes of God and the church.

She had to go to a baptist church and they had no problem marrying her.
They also gave my aunt a hard time. She was not married and they wanted to baptise there child and they did not want to do it.

I think that man is limited.. Many people assume what the church teaches or priests preach is from the bible, and that is where so many misconceptions of the bible come from because people abuse it and twist things for their own agendas.

Just remember do not lump everybody under the same tree just because they may be catholic. Like myself, but as I said before I do not feel that I belong to any church. Because I belong to God... Although I feel comfortable in certain churches then others. Things have changed a lot too.

Also remember being forced to go to confession all the time. I felt like I had to come up with sins that I committed.. It was almost like I was being forced to confess things even though as a kid I felt like I had nothing to confess.

Just wanted to share this with you and others.

[go-ask-mom]

My biggest problem with the Bible (as I've stated before) is that it was written in a time span of 1500 years and by over 40 men... we know that a sentence said in a circle is never the same when it ends as it was when it began, and that takes what, 10 minutes. So it is hard to wrap your head around those facts.

As far as the old testemant isn't that all forgotten, forgiven now? I don't know of any Christians who follow it..

That's just my problem in understanding it! :)

[Alty]

Thank you Cred. :)

It has also been a pleasure reading everyone's responses. I am glad that this thread has gone so well, I had allot of reservations when I wrote it.

I know that to Christians I am an anomaly. How can I believe without believing in the bible or Church? Do I really believe?

I do believe in God, perhaps he isn't the same God that Christians believe in, I'm still trying to figure that out. Darnit, 37 years and I still have questions.;)

The reason for my beliefs are my own, I cannot even begin to explain. Even if I did explain, I cannot prove that my experiences or reasons are fact, heck, I sometimes wonder if it is, maybe it was lack of oxygen one night. ;)

Part of my faith comes from the fact that I cannot imagine never again seeing my parents. I hope that heaven is real, I hope that when I die I will be reunited with them and all of the loved ones I have lost. The thought that I won't, that's too much to bear.

Thank you everyone once again for your thoughts, your beliefs, and for sharing them with me. :)

[Alty]

Alty,

With all do respect.. Just because Some priests or churches had that belief, does not mean that, that belief comes from the bible. It comes from man... Not all catholic churches are the same and not all the preists are the same. I have had many unusual and not so good experiances at church, but it almost feels as if bad talk of catholic is norm. Not all catholics feel the same and not all of the practises are the same or beliefs from church to church or priest to priest.

For instance, my mom had a divorce, from my father because he was a cheater and drunk. Legit reasons for seperation. Years later, she wanted to get married in the catholic church.. Catholic church refused and said she could not get remarried in the church because she is still considered married in the eyes of God and the church.

She had to go to a baptist church and they had no problem marrying her.
They also gave my aunt a hard time. She was not married and they wanted to baptise there child and they did not want to do it.

I think that man is limited.. Many people assume what the church teaches or priests preach is from the bible, and that is where so many misconceptions of the bible come from because people abuse it and twist things for their own agendas.

Just remember do not lump everybody under the same tree just because they may be catholic. Like myself, but as I said before I do not feel that I belong to any church. Because I belong to God.... Although I feel comfortable in certain churches then others. Things have changed a lot too.

Also remember being forced to go to confession all the time. I felt like I had to come up with sins that I committed.. It was almost like I was being forced to confess things even though as a kid I felt like I had nothign to confess.

Just wanted to share this with you and others.

Oh Joe,

I'm so sorry if it sounded like I was saying all Catholics are bad, that's truly not what I meant.

I have many friends that are Catholic, they are wonderful people, and they've never looked down on me because of my beliefs. You are one of those people Joe, and I do consider you a friend.

I guess I'm not explaining myself well. Honestly, in order to do so I'd have to write an entire book, I don't think anyone wants to read it here. ;)

Catholic school isn't the only reason I turned away from organized religion. I was a member of the Lutheran church , I've done research and gone to services at Pentecostal churches, baptist churches and many others. Organized religion just isn't for me, because it's run by man, and therefore it's mans beliefs that are being preached.

I don't know how to go about making everyone understand without condeming others beliefs,I'm sorry if that's the way it came out. I guess I'm going about this all wrong.

I hope you know that I would never intentionally say anything to hurt you, I'm sorry if I did.

Alty.

[jrebel7]

Actually Rebbie, I wasn't raised Catholic, I just went to Catholic school, because that's where my friends went and I wanted to be with them. I was ostracized from everything regarding their beliefs because I wasn't Catholic, that's why I'm against organized religion for myself.

Officially I was raised as part of the Lutheran church, in a way. We did attend church twice a year, christmas and easter, but that's it. My parents didn't shove religion down my throat, they did believe in God and told me so, but they very much believed that I had to find my own way, my own beliefs, and they gave me the freedom to do so, I will forever be thankful to them for letting me be who I am. :)

Some info about me;

10 years of catholic school opened my eyes to man made beliefs, because, to me, that's what they are. I was considered a bastard in their eyes, because my parents weren't married in the catholic church, because my mother refused to convert. My parents where married in the Lutheran church, and were told by a catholic priest that in the eyes of God they weren't really married and all their children (I'm the only one) would be bastards.

While attending catholic school there were many times when the entire school went to catholic services. I was not allowed to receive communion, because I'm not catholic. That gave the kids and sadly the teachers another reason to ostracize me. My father even went to the church to speak with the priest, tell him that I was being bullied because I wasn't catholic. The priests response "If you baptized her in the catholic religion then she wouldn't have these problems, but until her soul is saved there's nothing I can do". All this because of a simple wafer bought in the local store.

I'm not trying to make anyone here accept my beliefs, I'm simply trying to understand why so many people put stock in a book written by man, in an institution run by man, I simply don't understand why.

I know that I will never find a church that accepts my views, nor do I wish to search for one. I have read the bible and do not see the work of God, but the stories of men. I do not preach to my children, I simply tell them what I believe and then accept whatever path they choose. If my children grow up not believing, if that is what they choose then that's okay with me. They are good kids, they have empathy for every living thing in this world, they know love and give love, they are kind and intelligent, and really, in the end, isn't that what matters most?

I respect everyone's right to believe what they want. I guess I'm just trying to find my place in this, where I stand, because I've never met anyone with the same beliefs as me.

Thank you all for responding, I value each and every thought. I don't always agree, but I do value what you say and I respect what you believe. :)

Thank you for sharing you experiences. I do understand some of what you shared because I went to catechism with a very close friend. I was treated much the same as you not just by the church but even by my friend's sisters. I have other friends who were raised in the Catholic church and attended public school so there is many variations to all of our experiences. My one friend was never allowed to visit my church but she could take me to hers. Seems a little closed to me. I was young at the time and remember feeling that was a bit unfair to my friend as well as to me. I had another friend who, because he attended a morning get together at the high school that professed Christ, was called on the carpet so to speak by his priest. They had long conversations and he ended up stopping attending anything to do with God or the church, any church. One of our friends was the President of "Teen for Christ". The year he graduated, he went to Viet Nam and was killed. I had no contact with the guy who was his best friend for many years. He contacted me three years ago, via Classmates. He had a car fall on him and was in painful therapy. He said I kept coming to mind but he didn't know why. (I believe that when it came down to life and death, he remembered I was in the group that Jed led and was hoping to find some answers to things he had dealt with since high school. As we e-mailed and he got better, he and his wife commissioned me to do a drawing for them. He and his daughter came to pick it up. He asked if my husband and myself would mind finding where Jed was buried and go to the cemetery with him when he came home to see his mother. We did. I had shared how bad things happen to good people and because of Jed's witness to him, as his friend, he was still thinking about Jed's faith. He had no peace about Jed and about his own situation in his beliefs. He was so broken by our friends death, he was not able to attend services, just sat on the hood of his car out by the curb and had cried so hard. After the first visit to the cemetery and sharing about his conflict and my resolve I had found, he went alone to the cemetery and stayed a couple of hours and prayed. Result, he prayed and asked God in Jesus Name to come into his heart and he then had peace. He came to our home and shared this and said he had never known such freedom and peace. He lives in another state. He says his marriage is better and a sister he had such ill feelings toward, he now feels compassion for. That is not the work of man. I don't think one can explain it in human terms. But as I sorted through all of that and thought of Jed losing his life, I had to wonder, to us, his death seemed premature but had he lived on, would his life had such an impact on this friend. I don't know. All I know is that the memory of how this guy chose to live did have an impact and caused a permanent change, at least in one person's life.

I don't blame you for having the feelings you have. You were treated badly, to the point of abuse in my opinion. I would have been kickin' and screamin' at that point in my life. I was not so tempered as I am now AND I have a long way to go even now. I look at my mother and wonder, why can things just not be absorbed by osmosis from parent to child. LOL She is so full of grace and peace and is so calm then there is me, a bit mouthy and much more temperamental than she.

I understand that you are not trying to make anyone here accept your beliefs! You have valid questions and statements and with good reason!! Grrrrr... I kind of want to go punch their lights out now for those kids hurting you. (See what I mean, I get to be a mama bear even now). Sweet Alty, I appreciate your post. It opens subjects up to be shared. That's a good thing! I understand that you don't agree with all things shared on this thread but you do give respect to each of us and for that, I thank you! I respect you for putting this thread out there. That took courage in my opinion.

For me, believing the Bible as God's word is a choice I make each day. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." It does take a leap of faith and I guess I am just sharing with you that I made that leap of faith and for me, it has proven correct 100% of the time. I am not saying my life has been easy. As you know, I have had death threats on my children, house was set on fire and my daughter's car was blown up in our driveway by a stalker and when she went to college, he stalked me and I was in bed for almost a year with an illness that took a loooong time to diagnose, yet even then, I had a peace that as the Bible says, "passes all understanding" you know, like of man. I don't understand it but I accept it. I realize it is difficult to sort all this out in all of our minds but it is good to share with each other. I think we all gain from it. You are a neat gal with such a wonderful family, your children are beautiful. You have been a warm and wonderful friend to me on this site and I appreciate you very much Alty.

[Alty]

Oh Rebbie, my dear sweet Rebbie, thank you so much for those wonderful words. I appreciate you too my dear, you are such a kind caring person, never a mean word to anyone. You say you have a temper? Hmmm, I've never seen it. I imagine it would be like a fly beating an elephant, because you are too kind hearted to do any serious damage to anyone. :)

There are many things I don't understand, hence the questions, but I do know my belief, and I accept it without question. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with me.

[Alty]

:D I guess I am ganging up on me too :eek:

Ha, ha, I guess you are. :)

[jrebel7]

Oh Rebbie, my dear sweet Rebbie, thank you so much for those wonderful words. I appreciate you too my dear, you are such a kind caring person, never a mean word to anyone. You say you have a temper? Hmmm, I've never seen it. I imagine it would be like a fly beating an elephant, because you are too kind hearted to do any serious damage to anyone. :)

There are many things I don't understand, hence the questions, but I do know my belief, and I accept it without question. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with me.

I had to laugh as you described a fly beating an elephant!! :eek: That was a terrific visual... LOL :p

It was my pleasure to share with you and I appreciate you opening up and sharing things so personal to your life. :)

[WVHiflyer]

Alty - your belief in God w/o a 'belief' in organized religion isn't all that unusual. While I'm a full-fledged atheist now, I once thought I believed in God. On my way to realizing I never really did, I went through a period where it was only organized religion I shunned, mostly because I saw it as very hypocritical ('our religion is based on love but if you're too different we don't want you around and/or are sure you'll be condemned to hell"). Even then I knew that not all people of faith were like that, but the 'orders' from church elders made it seem as though churches were too 'exclusive.' The last time I was in church was when the minister railed about communism for his sermon instead of teaching any type of gospel.

As I went from Christian to agnostic to atheist, I realized that the only reason I believed in my youth was because that's all I knew. I didn't know anyone didn't believe. (I grew up on the northern edge of the Bible Belt.) Mom was a strong believer, but not a church-goer. No aspect of religion was pushed on me, it was just a part of life where I grew up.