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randomwcuman · Sep 11, 2008, 10:25 AM

Agrred there tom

randomwcuman · Sep 11, 2008, 10:25 AM

Agrred there tom

HistorianChick · Sep 11, 2008, 10:27 AM

Yes, I agree. Saving Dent WAS more logical...

... but was he thinking of logic at the moment? If presented with saving the love of your life or your hope for a better tomorrow... that's huge...

adam_89 · Sep 11, 2008, 10:44 AM

He said he was going after Rachel!! He did not know that he was going to show up and find Harvey Dent! It was a surprise to him! I think he would have rather saved the love of his life. He said he was going to save her, and he planned on it, but oh, what do you know, he was tricked. He showed up and there was Harvey! He still had to save him thoug, he couldn't just leave.

iAMfromHuntersBar · Sep 11, 2008, 10:46 AM

At no point do I remember him saying that he was going after either of them!

I don't think he says anything when runs out of the interrigation room?

ScottGem · Sep 11, 2008, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by adam_89

He said he was going after Rachel!!! He did not know that he was going to show up and find Harvey Dent! It was a surprise to him! I think he would have rather saved the love of his life. He said he was going to save her, and he planned on it, but oh, what do you know, he was tricked. He showed up and there was Harvey! He still had to save him thoug, he couldn't just leave.

You need to watch the film again. The whole point was we didn't know who he was going after until we see which warehouse he arrives at. The idea was to keep the audience in suspense. As I recall he knew who was where.

And how do you think Rachel would have felt if she knew he let Dent die to save her. Do you think she would have still felt the same about him? So, if he had gone to save her, he would have lost her anyway!

tomder55 · Sep 11, 2008, 11:12 AM

Adam West would've saved both lol.
Gordon called after him... which one he was going for? Batman yelled 'RACHEL' .That is the dialogue the way I remember it. This is a great discussion because it is plausible that Batman would've decided on the greater good.

adam_89 · Sep 11, 2008, 12:15 PM

YES! THANK YOU TOMDER55!! When he ran out of the interogation room, Gordon asked, "Who are you going after?" Batman replied, "Rachel" so there you go, he said it. Ok? Is my point proven? It is decided now, thank you!

tomder55 · Sep 12, 2008, 04:44 AM

Found the dialogue :
ONUR AYDIN: The best movie dialogue that has ever existed

adam_89 · Sep 12, 2008, 07:08 AM

See everyone? Thanks to tomder55 here, everybody can see what happened. Thanks again tom!

Moomin · Sep 12, 2008, 09:45 AM

Well actually, neither of you are completly right!

If you have a look at the official script here...
http://joblo.com/scripts/The_Dark_Knight.pdf

... on page 107, we see Batman leave the interrogation room! He states 'Dent knew the risks' which still indicates no clear outcome!

BUT... on page 112 we are clearly told the Joker lied to Batman! Yes, that is right!

:p

ScottGem · Sep 12, 2008, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Moomin

Well actually, neither of you are completly right!

If you have a look at the official script here...
http://joblo.com/scripts/The_Dark_Knight.pdf

...on page 107, we see Batman leave the interrogation room! He states 'Dent knew the risks' which still indicates no clear outcome!

BUT... on page 112 we are clearly told the Joker lied to Batman! Yes, that is right!

:p

This is why I didn't admit an error yet. I don't know if that is the official script or whether the link Tomder found is.

I know I don't remember Batman saying he was going to save Rachel. And I know that it would not make sense for Nolan to have him say that. Any writer worth his salt is going to use a situation like that to heighten suspense. Make the audience wonder who he was going to save. Even if he was tricked or intended to save Dent wouldn't matter there. Any writer would want the suspense to build to see which warehouse he shows up at.

And I also recall, but can't find, a place where Batman gets angry at Gordon for not saving Rachel. Which helped give me the impression that he went after Dent.

adam_89 · Sep 12, 2008, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

This is why I didn't admit an error yet. I don't know if that is the official script or whether the link Tomder found is.

I know I don't remember Batman saying he was going to save Rachel. And I know that it would not make sense for Nolan to have him say that. Any writer worth his salt is going to use a situation like that to heighten suspense. Make the audience wonder who he was going to save. Even if he was tricked or intended to save Dent wouldn't matter there. Any writer would want the suspense to build to see which warehouse he shows up at.

And I also recall, but can't find, a place where Batman gets angry at Gordon for not saving Rachel. Which helped give me the impression that he went after Dent.

ScottGem, where are you from, or what stat are you in? I don't know if they might play different versions, or what might have been the original script but was modified a little and showed else where. I am positive that he said he was going after Rachel, when Gordon asked him. Also, I am sorry about using the rating system wrong.

ScottGem · Sep 12, 2008, 10:13 AM

I saw it on Long Island only a couple of weeks ago.

Yes it certainly possible that alternate versions were released, but I think its unlikely.

I guess we'll have to wait for the DVD.

adam_89 · Sep 12, 2008, 10:17 AM

Yes. I guess we will have to wait and see. I seen it in Indiana. I would like to find out.

jayzftw · Sep 12, 2008, 10:30 AM

I'm pretty sure he wanted to go after Rachel, but his needs are not as important as the city's, the city needed someone who could do so much good without the mask, thts why he went for the DA. It doesn't make sense that he was given the wrong address, if he had been tricked he would have made more of a show of being angry at the jokers trick

tomder55 · Sep 12, 2008, 11:01 AM

I'm a native Long Islander also so I will post this : I do recall hearing the phrase "Dent knew the risks" but if he had said that would that not also imply that he was going for Rachel ?

But to bolster Scott's argument Alfred did at one point in the movie say
You can be the outcast. You can make the choice that no one else will face—the right choice.”

ETWolverine · Sep 12, 2008, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Always_helping

OK,

Warning: If you have not seen Batman The Dark Knight, then do not read this post!

I need some clarification: Batman had a choice of either saving the District Attorney or the woman; why did he save the DA?

My guess is that he was "set-up/tricked" by someone (the mayor?) to save the DA.

But I am not sure and that is why I am asking.

Thank you in advance to all of AMHD responders who will reply. You guys/gals are awesome!

Peace.

Hi Helping.

When Batman "questioned" the Joker, he was told by the Joker that the two captives (Harvey Dent and Rachel Dawes) were held in two different parts of the city, and that he only had time to save one. Joker told Batman that Rachel was in one location and Harvey was in another. Batman told Commissioner Gordon to save Harvey while he went to save Rachel. HOWEVER, it turns out that the Joker lied about which captive was at which location, so Batman's choice to save Rachel really led him to save Harvey. And that nearly drove Batman to insanity and murder.

The whole point that Joker was trying to make in the entire movie is that "stuff happens" and that if enough stuff happens it drives "normal" people to do insane things. Ergo, insanity is simply a force of nature, which means that the JOKER HIMSELF is a force of nature. He succeeded in doing enough to Harvey to turn him into the vengeful "Harvey Two-Face", and quite nearly succeeded in turning Batman into a killer. He made cops who would normally support Batman turn against him and call for his capture (or murder). He made the victims on the two boats nearly murder each other to save their own lives. The entire movie was an experiment by the Joker on what drives normal people to insanity for the sake of self-preservation or vengeance. The capture and murder or Rachel Dawes and Harvey Dent (and switching which was was located where) was just one more element of that experiment.

Hope this helps.

Elliot

jayzftw · Sep 12, 2008, 11:32 AM

Actually that makes much more sense than my last post, it would explain why batman attempted to run the joker over but swerved at the last minute.

ETWolverine · Sep 12, 2008, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I don't get where you people are getting this from.

He chose the DA because he felt the DA had a chance to clean up the city. It was a greater good choice!

Sorry, Scott, but I got to disagree. Batman specifically yells to Gordon to go save Dent, he'll handle Rachel. But when he got there, Dent was at HIS location and the cops were too late to save Rachel. Joker DELIBERATELY tricked Batman, forced him to choose who lives and who dies... and then made sure that the choice was the opposite of what Batman intended. See my response to Always-Helping.

Elliot