[Milo Dolezal]

Ok, Symmons web page states that Symmons Allura has Integral Stops. These stops have to be open. Otherwise you will get no water flow through the faucet.

[bellboy]

Usually, tub/shower faucets for commercial applications have "stops" on hot and cold side. In some cases they also consist of small wire mesh like filter. Those stops are hidden under the trim. They HAVE to be open for faucet to get water. Are they open ?

Yes

The rooms that don't get cold nor hot sometimes comes back normal and gets cold & hot. It's weird. It looks like someone's making fun of us.

I do understand we have major water pressure problem in the room. We used to use only 1 water heater for entire hotel. However would that effect the pressure problem?

[Milo Dolezal]

Stupid question: How do you know they are open ? Did you open them yourself ?

Some stops open by setting slot into horizontal position.
Some stops open like a screw: you have to turn them several times counter-clock-wise

Ok, the valves you have are Pressure Balanced valves. That means that there is a piston like device ( or ball like device ) built in that slides (moves ) back and forth with pressure. If that device clogs, it blocks it from sliding easily and it gets stuck in one place.

[bellboy]

Stupid question: How do you know they are open ? Did you open them your self ?

Some stops open by setting slot into horizontal position.
Some stops open like a screw: you have to turn them several times counter-clock-wise

I've seen the plumbers opening the line and the water came out however the water was not hot at all. Well it was hot for few seconds and it turned cold instantly. How weird is that!:confused:

Ok, the valves you have are Pressure Balanced valves. That means that there is a piston like device ( or ball like device ) built in that slides (moves ) back and forth with pressure. If that device clogs, it blocks it from sliding easily and it gets stuck in one place.

Since you mentioned it. The valve does move fairly easy when we move it. And one time, it did got stuck so we had to unscrew it to take it out and reinstalled it.

[Milo Dolezal]

Ok, first we have to establish that you have water coming to the faucet. Therefore:

1. Remove trim
2. Close H/C stops
3. Remove cartridge
4. Crack open hot - then cold - stop. See if water starts shooting out

If you have water coming to the faucet, than the problem is the cartridge. Buy one new cartridge. ( Usually the old one cannot be cleaned. The debris is embedded inside the cartridge itself and is unreachable) Install new cartridge in the body of the faucet. Open stops. It should work.

[bellboy]

Ok, first we have to establish that you have water coming to the faucet. Therefore:

1. Remove trim
2. Close H/C stops
3. Remove cartridge
4. Crack open hot - then cold - stop. See if water starts shooting out

If you have water coming to the faucet, than the problem is the cartridge. Buy one new cartridge. ( Usually the old one cannot be cleaned. The debris is embedded inside the cartridge itself and is unreachable) Install new cartridge in the body of the faucet. Open stops. It should work.

Hmm we already replaced the cartidges in all the rooms already.

[Milo Dolezal]

Now, if you have Hot and Cold water fluctuating - than problem may not be in the faucet. It may be issue with hot water circulating pump loop.

Did the plumbers do anything with rough plumbing ? ( like replacing and resoldering copper pipes any where in the building, replacing shower valves inside the wall ? )

105 rooms: does it mean 105 bathrooms ?

Sorry about asking you all these questions - but I have to get an idea what I am dealing with.

How well are you familiar with you plumbing system ?

[bellboy]

But I'll try this first thing in the morning! Thanks.

[Milo Dolezal]

Sure... come back and let us know what you've found out... Milo

[bellboy]

I don't know anything about the plumbing at all. I'm a office manager not a plumber however our maintenance staff worked and worked but we seem to have no luck of finding the solution. That's why we called outside for help. However, calling them just didn't work and we're basically wasting time and money at this moment!

[bellboy]

105 rooms: does it mean 105 bathrooms ?

Yes 105 bathroom

Now, if you have Hot and Cold water fluctuating - than problem may not be in the faucet. It may be issue with hot water circulating pump loop.

Did the plumbers do anything with rough plumbing ? ( like replacing and resoldering copper pipes any where in the building, replacing shower valves inside the wall ? )

There was one time where we had to replace the pipe inside the wall because it was leaking water. I don't know if that will effect the entire hotel room because it's just one room that we replaced the pipe.

[speedball1]

Has anyone suggested flushing out the water lines? Working on the pipes could have resulted in minerals built up in the pipe wall being dislodged and clogging the system. Hey! Sounds like you've tried everything else. Good luck, tom

[Milo Dolezal]

You have 2 separate problems:

1. Fluctuating H/C water. This problem pertains to Hot Water Circulating Pump and its loop. This usually becomes a problem when less experienced plumber works on the building and doesn't start up the system the way he should after he does his repairs. Also, he may have crossed hot with cold water lines, burn pump, didn't start up booster pump, etc... There are quite a few possibilities.

2. No water in tub/shower. That should be localized problem and problem should be at the faucet itself ( same applies to sink faucets ). Most likely it is debris in the cartridge or in the small openings inside the faucet. This usually happens when old water heater is "moved" or old rusting pipes are cut with sawzall. Shaking releases rust, rust travels through the system and lodges itself in angle stops, water supplies, tub/shower faucets, shower heads, aerators, etc.

Moreover: if you have 105 bathroom than you have quite an elaborate hot water system. I suspect you have more then 1 pump. You may also have additional 1 or 2 booster pumps on the loop and various shut-off valves and check valves throughout the building. You could also have either another hot water heater (or two ) as a part of your system and/or large hot water storage tank. Single heater would not be adequate for so many bathrooms w/o storage tank.

Lastly: Unless you have some super pump, it sounds to me that one single pump would not be capable of running 105 bathrooms.

Every time we work on big structures, it is quite a procedure to tune up the system and restart it. Hot water circulating loop pipe has to be bled ( remove all air ) so pump circulates water. That itself takes some effort and time.

Is there any way you could call the original plumber and have him to retrace his work ? If he is a professional, he should be responsive.

[bellboy]

Hello again,

I'm back with some more questions. The water problem that I asked about, would the check valve cause any damage because we're thinking the valve was installed backward.

[Milo Dolezal]

I don't think it backward installed check valve would damage anything. Just prevented hot water from flowing the right direction.

But if you have hot water circulating pump on your plumbing system than it would probably burn the pump after while.

[bellboy]

I don't think it backward installed check valve would damage anything. Just prevented hot water from flowing the right direction.

But if you have hot water circulating pump on your plumbing system than it would probably burn the pump after while.

That's exactly what happened the circulation pump went dead after few hours. Since the maintenance had to wait for the pump to be delivered tomorrow, what will happen without a circulation pump?

[Milo Dolezal]

Not too much will happen. Your rooms won't have instant hot water delivery until new pump is installed. Guests will have to wait few moments until hot water arrives in their bathroom. Pump installation should take no more than 1/2 hour.

Important: Make sure to bleed the hot water loop to get rid off any air in the system. Also, after new pump is installed and running, go to the most distant bathroom and open hot water in the sink until uninterrupted hot water pours out of that plumbing fixture.

[bellboy]

Not too much will happen. Your rooms won't have instant hot water delivery until new pump is installed. Guests will have to wait few moments until hot water arrives in their bathroom. Pump installation should take no more than 1/2 hour.

Important: Make sure to bleed the hot water loop to get rid off any air in the the system. Also, after new pump is installed and running, go to the most distant bathroom and open hot water in the sink until uninterrupted hot water pours out of that plumbing fixture.

About how long would it take to get hot water because I was in the room like 10-15 mintues and still no hot water at all. I'm talking about entire floor and that's about good 10-15 rooms that are opened

[Milo Dolezal]

It all depends the lay-out of your hotel and also how the hot water circulating system was laid out to reach all those 105 rooms. It is certainly a large system ( minimum of 210 plumbing fixtures ) and I cannot imagine all these bathrooms are all run on one single pump. If indeed you have only one pump than, yes, it will take quite some time for hot water to arrive. Low flow shower heads and low flow faucets make hot water delivery even worse.

[speedball1]

Bellboy, Is there more then one water heater involved? If so how many and what size are they? Also I notice both you and Milo posting separate back to back posts.
This clutters up the thread and takes up space. Please! If you're going to add something to a post don't start a new one. Instead click the edit button and add your comments on to the original post. I've gone in and merged all the posts where you all run multiple posts on top of each other. Thanks for helping to keep the page clean. Tom