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    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Jul 7, 2008, 01:57 PM
    Unfair Ruling
    I am the plaintiff in a divorce action which the financials were concluded in Sept. 2007. I have not received an order as of yet to review and it is the month of July 2008. I have sole custody of my daughter who is 15 years of age, lastly, I have terminated legal representation due to financial difficulty.

    Problem: I found numerous perjurous evidence from the defendant such as her phony medical claim to Depression/ Multiple Sclerosis that she submitted in an sworn affidavit, and the although the Judge agreed with my statement and I mentioned in my statement that she perjured herself and cited the laws about perjury the Judge did not penalize her for it.

    The Defendant submitted in a sworn affidavit phony promissory note which the defendant created and place a current date to money that she supposedly owed her landlord dated back for over one year, and that the landlord never signed, nor was the promissory note notarized. Although he Judge agreed with my statement and I mentioned in my statement that she perjured herself and cited the laws about perjury the Judge did not penalize her for it.

    The Defendant did not pay any child support for over two years, and the Judge did not force her to pay anything.

    The Judge stated that the defendant submitted an incomplete net worth statement (which is perjury), found that the defendant can be self-supporting in the future.

    In essence: The judge concluded that I have to pay spousal support to the defendant for the next five years in the amount of $1,500 per month, and give half of my 401K to defendant. Lastly I have to pay for legal fees totaling $3,000.00.

    How can I speed up the process in obtaining the order which is long overdue, objecting to the order and appealing my case.
    Fr_Chuck's Avatar
    Fr_Chuck Posts: 81,301, Reputation: 7692
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    #2

    Jul 7, 2008, 02:57 PM
    Well first it is not going to be all that easy, First a judge does not have to fine a person for perjury, they may just throw out that evidence if proved wrong. Often in statements one side or both lie in a divorce precedings. So there is often less punishment as long as the truth does come out.

    And have you reviewed the transcript for the hearing, remember you can not appeal just because you did not like the verdict, you have to have a legal reason, some fault or something in the case to allow an appeal.
    You need to hire an attorney back, esp if the other side has one.

    Also has separate child custody and child support paper work been filed along with the divorce precedings.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #3

    Jul 7, 2008, 03:32 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
    Well first it is not going to be all that easy, First a judge does not have to fine a person for perjury, they may just throw out that evidence if proved wrong. Often in statements one side or both lie in a divorce precedings. so there is often less punishment as long as the truth does come out.

    And have you reviewed the transcript for the hearing, remember you can not appeal just because you did not like the verdict, you have to have a legal reason, some fault or some thing in the case to allow an appeal.
    You need to hire an attorney back, esp if the other side has one.

    Also has seperate child custody and child support paper work been filed along with the divorce precedings.

    Right, I would this is impossible without legal counsel.

    And I also have seen downright perjury in matrimonial court and the Judges sum it up to "emotions running high." Unfair but it sometimes boils down to who lies the best.

    And people post on here that they lied and got caught - and nothing happens to them so it's from both sides.
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Jul 7, 2008, 05:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    Right, I would this is impossible without legal counsel.

    And I also have seen downright perjury in matrimonial court and the Judges sum it up to "emotions running high." Unfair but it sometimes boils down to who lies the best.

    And people post on here that they lied and got caught - and nothing happens to them so it's from both sides.
    There are laws in NY State that suppose to protect people. Why can't I apply the laws especially CPLR which is used in appeals? If cases of perjury are good enough for celebrities/politicians then it should be good enough for the common average liar such as my soon to be x wife.

    The financial case should have been thrown out based upon the Incomplete Net Worth Statement and the defendant's evidence of perjury.
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Jul 7, 2008, 05:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
    Well first it is not going to be all that easy, First a judge does not have to fine a person for perjury, they may just throw out that evidence if proved wrong. Often in statements one side or both lie in a divorce precedings. so there is often less punishment as long as the truth does come out.

    And have you reviewed the transcript for the hearing, remember you can not appeal just because you did not like the verdict, you have to have a legal reason, some fault or some thing in the case to allow an appeal.
    You need to hire an attorney back, esp if the other side has one.

    Also has seperate child custody and child support paper work been filed along with the divorce precedings.
    The case for financials should have been thrown out based upon the defendant's incomplete net worth statement and multiple evidence of perjury. My daughter was living with my sister-in-law during my divorce proceedings until February 2007. I have sole custody of my daughter and the defendant waived visitation. I submitted evidence to the Judge that I have sole custody and requested child support in April 2007 and the Judge disregarded my request altogether.

    The worst part of it is that I cannot proceed with child support because I did not receive the long overdue order as of yet from the defendant's attorney. Until the order is settled there is nothing that I can do.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #6

    Jul 7, 2008, 06:25 PM
    Crabman writes: " I have terminated legal representation due to financial difficulty." I would have financial difficulty paying that lawyer, too. Just curious: does your wife have an attorney? Write to the judge, copy your wife (or her attorney) and request a status conference to resolve outstanding issues. This may be called a pre-trial conference, but if you are in NY, they probably have a big name for it.
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Jul 7, 2008, 07:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950
    crabman writes: " I have terminated legal representation due to financial difficulty." I would have financial difficulty paying that lawyer, too. Just curious: does your wife have an attorney? Write to the judge, copy your wife (or her attorney) and request a status conference to resolve outstanding issues. This may be called a pre-trial conference, but if you are in NY, they probably have a big name for it.
    My soon to be X Wife has an attorney. This case was held in Queens, NY and I will have to ask someone from the Supreme Court about "Status Conference" request. I just hope that something can be done because it is outrageous that my daughter did not receive a cent for child support from the defendant, and that the Judge didn't even address the issue in financials. Another reason why I terminated legal representation is because I had a lousy attorney who didn't place any effort on my divorce case. My best friend and I did most of the work and supplied all the info to this horrible laywer and the lawyer did not properly present my case.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,700, Reputation: 1438
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    #8

    Jul 7, 2008, 08:10 PM
    I believe that what you really need to do is just forget this whole mess for awhile and focus on what it is you really want. Write a list. Start fresh. If child support is top of the list then pursue that avenue. Focus on one thing at a time. Stop trying to play liar liar pants on fire. Get over it and focus on what your needs really are and your child.

    If you have any order decision etc concerning child custody even if its by transcript then take that to the child support agency near you and start there. Let them take it from her. Get back to focusing on your kid because it sounds like your angry at the system and that's going to get you nowhere.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #9

    Jul 8, 2008, 05:58 AM
    [QUOTE=Comments on this post: crabman1500cc disagrees: Sheer Ignorance[/QUOTE]




    Can't give Califdad a greenie in response to this - crabman1500cc should read the rules for posting. His anger is misplaced and he is insulting.

    I can see why the Court decision went the way it did - I doubt the above (as well as the other post yesterday) are one-time displays of anger. And that does NOT play well in Court.
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #10

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:26 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    Your tone is totally unnecessary and your anger is misdirected -

    You asked for advice, you got advice. Sorry you didn't like it but, again, you are out of line. Your anger is misdirected - no one on this Board chose your Attorney. You did and apparently rode out the case with him/her. Direct your anger in that direction.

    And if you're going to do whatever it takes - so stop the grandstanding and passionate speeches and do what's been advised.

    What is your legal grounds for appealing the ruling? As FrChuck said, "I don't like it, it's not fair" is not legal grounds in NYS - and I'm in NYS.
    I am not a lawyer and I need advice not ridicule. My daughter is the victim of this legal mess.
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:29 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    Can't give Califdad a greenie in response to this - crabman1500cc should read the rules for posting. His anger is misplaced and he is insulting.

    I can see why the Court decision went the way it did - I doubt the above (as well as the other post yesterday) are one-time displays of anger. And that does NOT play well in Court.
    I am seeking legal advice not ridicule. My daughter is the victim of this legal mess.
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #12

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:35 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by crabman1500cc
    I am not a lawyer and I need advice not ridicule. My daughter is the victim of this legal mess.

    So what are your legal grounds for appeal - ?
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    So what are your legal grounds for appeal - ?
    I need legal advice about overturning this case in appeals. I will be the first one to admit that I am IGNORANT when it comes to the law especially DIVORCE, that is why I chose this forum to ask for professional opinions.
    ScottGem's Avatar
    ScottGem Posts: 64,966, Reputation: 6056
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    #14

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:49 AM
    Ok, First, if you are ignorant of the law, then how can you rate someone else's comments as "sheer Ignorance"? While I don't agree with Califdad's recommendations, they were a potential way of dealing with the issues.

    Second, no one is ridiculing you. It was the other way around. It does set off alarms here when you denigrate viable advice offered.

    Without seeing the transcripts, its hard to advise what your grounds of appeal might be. But if, as you indicate, the judge ignored falsified testimony and legal requirements, then that should be grounds for overturning the award.

    I do agree with the others that perjury in such an instance is unlikely to be punished under the law, but that doesn't mean that falsified testimony should carry any weight.
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
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    #15

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:55 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottGem
    Ok, First, if you are ignorant of the law, then how can you rate someone else's comments as "sheer Ignorance"? While I don't agree with Califdad's recommendations, they were a potential way of dealing with the issues.

    Second, no one is ridiculing you. As a matter of fact it was the other way around. It does set off alarms here when you denigrate viable advice offered.

    Without seeing the transcripts, its hard to advise what your grounds of appeal might be. But if, as you indicate, the judge ignored falsified testimony and legal requirements, then that should be grounds for overturning the award.

    I do agree with the others that perjury in such an instance is unlikely to be punished under the law, but that doesn't mean that falsified testimony should carry any weight.
    I thank you for your professional opinion.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #16

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:55 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by crabman1500cc
    I am the plaintiff in a divorce action which the financials were concluded in Sept. 2007. I have not received an order as of yet to review and it is the month of July 2008. I have sole custody of my daughter who is 15 years of age....
    ...
    The Defendant did not pay any child support for over two years, and the Judge did not force her to pay anything.
    ...
    How can I speed up the process in obtaining the order which is long overdue, objecting to the order and appealing my case.
    Just curious: how did you receive sole custody of your daughter? Did mother agree to this from the outset? Does the mother get visitation? When was your divorce filed? When was the hearing on temporary custody and child support? Have you called (or written) the judge to find out what is next in the case? Has the mother been gainfully employed? When did you marry?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #17

    Jul 8, 2008, 06:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by crabman1500cc
    I need legal advice about overturning this case in appeals. I will be the first one to admit that I am IGNORANT when it comes to the law especially DIVORCE, that is why I chose this forum to ask for professional opinions.

    It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to overturn a Supreme Court ruling - and that's where NYS divorces are heard - without an Attorney. You may not even be allowed to file without an Attorney. The appeal will come to the facts - not corrupt Judges, not the legal system stinks, but facts -

    You can attempt to overturn the original decision IF the "true" info would have led to a different decision. If the "true" info is not important to the case and the decision you cannot overturn the original decision based on those grounds.

    For example, using your ex-wife - she says she doesn't/can't/hasn't worked because she has MS; she provides a false affidavit. The Judge decides she hasn't worked in X years and so he doesn't force her to find employment. The MS letter has nothing to do with his decision - his decision is based on her past employment history.

    Again - IMPOSSIBLE without an Attorney.
    crabman1500cc's Avatar
    crabman1500cc Posts: 36, Reputation: 1
    Junior Member
     
    #18

    Jul 8, 2008, 07:05 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950
    Just curious: how did you receive sole custody of your daughter? Did mother agree to this from the outset? Does the mother get visitation? When was your divorce filed? When was the hearing on temporary custody and child support? Have you called (or written) the judge to find out what is next in the case? Has the mother been gainfully employed? When did you marry?
    Are you an attorney?
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
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    #19

    Jul 8, 2008, 07:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by crabman1500cc
    Are you an attorney?

    Attorneys who post on these boards are not going to give you binding legal advice based only on your side of the story without benefit of files and transcripts.

    This is most definitely not a free legal clinic. Unfortunately.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #20

    Jul 8, 2008, 07:13 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by crabman1500cc
    ...

    Problem: I found numerous perjurous evidence from the defendant such as her phony medical claim to Depression/ Multiple Sclerosis that she submitted in an sworn affidavit, and the although the Judge agreed with my statement and I mentioned in my statement that she perjured herself and cited the laws about perjury the Judge did not penalize her for it.

    The Defendant submitted in a sworn affidavit phony promissory note which the defendant created and place a current date to money that she supposedly owed her landlord dated back for over one year, and that the landlord never signed, nor was the promissory note notarized. Although he Judge agreed with my statement and I mentioned in my statement that she perjured herself and cited the laws about perjury the Judge did not penalize her for it.
    ...

    The Judge stated that the defendant submitted an incomplete net worth statement (which is perjury), found that the defendant can be self-supporting in the future.
    ...
    You have mentioned perjury in several places within the context of a contested domestic relations case. How many cases like this have you been associated with in some fashion or another? How many such cases has the judge been associated with? You should understand that you are emotionally involved and invested in your case, as you should be. However, that is not a healthy way to present a case in court. As Honest Abe said, 'a lawyer that represents himself has a fool for a client.' I'm not saying some of her facts aren't truthful; how would I know? But judges listen to contested claims all the time, searching for the truth within the procedural rules of the court and the rules of evidence. Parties can misrepresent facts and impressions without the misrepresentation becoming "material". "Material Fact - A material fact is a fact which, if known, would have affected the judgment of one or more of the parties to a transaction... A material fact cannot be an opinion, belief, prediction, or speculation, and typically must relate to something in the past or present that can be proved or disproved." Here's a humorous news accout: "So what category of litigants features the most perjurors? According to John Henry Hingson III, the former president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, it's not criminal defendants. 'The grand-slam, home-run winner is in domestic relations court. People in divorce cases act crazy.'" Law Blog - WSJ.com : The Elusive Perjury Charge (Yeah, Yeah, That's the Ticket!)
    Effective counsel will show the judge that a party or witness is coloring his/her testimony without getting to perjury; that is usually enough for the other side to prevail.

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