[progunr]

Can anyone explain what this guy is all about?

Speaking yesterday, Obama outlined his plans to further socialize our Nation if we give him the chance.

He wants to expand government volunteer's in such programs as AmeriCorps and The Peace Corps.

He actually wants to increase the federal budget of AmeriCorps by 400%!

Yes, and were you aware that these "volunteer's" are paid $30,000 a year by the Federal Government.

For those of you who are not aware, that means the tax money taken from the workers in America, is given to these "volunteer's".

Do you know what these "volunteer's" do for your $30,000 worth of taxes a year?

Very important stuff, like driving folks down to the welfare office so they can sign up for the maximum benefits, donated by our tax confiscations.

Even more importantly, they have voter registration drives.

Yeah, they go around and recruit unregistered DEMOCRATS and drive them to the local voter registration offices, so they can register to vote.

There is no such program to recruit conservative or even independent voters, only for the Democrats.

He wants to withhold federal funding from middle schools, and high schools that don't require every student to "volunteer" for at least 2 hours of "government service" every week.

He wants to increase the Peace Corps budget as well.

Yeah, we need to send more "volunteers" to places like Honduras, to teach them Internet Technology Skills, and help them set up internet cafe's there.

Were you aware that it costs roughly $50,000 per Peace Corps "volunteer" that is sent to do such important work.

Yes, more meaningful use of the money that is confiscated from your check each payday.

Meanwhile, NONE of these "volunteers" are earning a real living, and paying taxes, no in fact, they are spending taxes instead.

They are not creating any jobs for Americans, and they are not creating income that can be taxed and redistributed to the under achievers in America.

How much will these programs do to help our economy?

So how do you think the "dictator" Obama plans to come up with all this extra tax money?

Yeah, he's going to take it from all of us.

And you Libs say that we should "fear" McCain?

Sorry, your Socialist is the real danger to our Country.

[sGt HarDKorE]

Do I have to pay Federal Income Taxes during my Peace Corps Service?

Actually peace corp members make a max of 1600 a year or just enough to live the life of the area they are in in. And it appears that they do pay some taxes depending on the state. And its because their income is so low that they don't have to pay the federal taxes.

And why not help other countries, why are we better than people in Africa or other poor places?



Also he doesn't seem to be taking money out of middle schools/high schools with his program:

* Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama believes teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. He will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.
* Make Math and Science Education a National Priority: Obama will recruit math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession and will support efforts to help these teachers learn from professionals in the field. He will also work to ensure that all children have access to a strong science curriculum at all grade levels.
* Address the Dropout Crisis: Obama will address the dropout crisis by passing his legislation to provide funding to school districts to invest in intervention strategies in middle school - strategies such as personal academic plans, teaching teams, parent involvement, mentoring, intensive reading and math instruction, and extended learning time.
* Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve one million more children.
* Expand Summer Learning Opportunities: Obama's "STEP UP" plan addresses the achievement gap by supporting summer learning opportunities for disadvantaged children through partnerships between local schools and community organizations.
* Support College Outreach Programs: Obama supports outreach programs like GEAR UP, TRIO and Upward Bound to encourage more young people from low-income families to consider and prepare for college.
* Support English Language Learners: Obama supports transitional bilingual education and will help Limited English Proficient students get ahead by holding schools accountable for making sure these students complete school.

Recruit, Prepare, Retain, and Reward America'
Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Education


IMO all your statements are incredibly false and just made up as you thought of them

[BABRAM]

I'm used to the socialist programs. We currently have one called "Iraq." :rolleyes:

[progunr]

Perhaps you misunderstood?

I did not say that Peace Corps volunteers were "paid" $50,000, I said that is the average "cost" to the American taxpayer, per volunteer.

Big difference there.

Those "states" that YOU posted, have nothing to do with my post.

He did state that federal funds would be withheld if the schools did not meet his standards for government service volunteers.

If you can find the speech, and listen to it, you will find that nothing in my post was "made up".

Also, I didn't claim we were "better people", don't you think America has enough poor people, that need help with being trained for a job, so we can get them off the Government redistribution of wealth program?

[edited to indicate this reply was for the sGt.]

[purplewings]

Socialism is great for those who don't want to work for their gains. It removes jealousy by keeping us all equal. Unfortunately, it builds rage in those working their tail off while the other naps on a sofa. Who wouldn't love working constantly and never getting ahead? Go OBAMA!

[BABRAM]

I think you're mistaken. Iraq is not what socialism represents at all.

I was being tongue-in-cheek about our expenses on Iraq, which seems like it has become a never ending spending spree by comparison of the charge of socialism.

Who wouldn't love working constantly and never getting ahead?

I do it every day. Some people liked it so much they voted for Dubya twice.

Go OBAMA!

Yes! Obama is a good example of someone who has worked hard and earned his keep. Most politicians, both high profile Democrat and Republican, come from wealthy families that had much given to them, not the case with Obama. I put in my 40 hours plus a week and my wife is working about 28-35 hrs a week. I can relate closer to Obama, although I don't agree with him on more than a few issues, rather than Dubya or McCain. Actually I prefer more of libertarian approach for a solution of current affairs, but to offset the pendulum from having swung to far Republican, I'm voting Obama.

[purplewings]

BABRAM: Yes! Obama is a good example of someone who has worked hard and earned his keep. Most politicians, both high profile Democrat and Republican, come from wealthy families that had much given to them, not the case with Obama. I put in my 40 hours plus a week and my wife is working about 28-35 hrs a week. I can relate closer to Obama, although I don't agree with him on more than a few issues, rather than Dubya or McCain. Actually I prefer more of libertarian approach for a solution of current affairs, but to offset the pendulum from having swung to far Republican, I'm voting Obama.

Bobby, I can believe that you feel you work too hard and make no gains, but it's not the same as handing half your paycheck over to someone else who isn't working at all.

None of us know for sure what the future will bring but once a person is elected to the highest office in our land there is no turning back.

Curiously, other than Obama's 6 years in the Illinois Senate, and lectures at the Chicago law school, WHAT has he worked so hard at? Has he done actual labor? I don't think his history is of a poor man. His Kenyan father actually graduated from Harvard.

I was searching for information on that subject and couldn't find a thing although this article made some points. You might find it interesting. At least I did.

Barack Obama: How a Political Non-Entity Rose To Power (Part 2 of 4) by Edward Cline -- Capitalism Magazine
.. he was picked, groomed and promoted to run for the office of President of the United States. Regardless of the image Obama projects, that of an independent force master of his own destiny - and it is a manufactured image, to be sure - it is the nature of modern American politics that he could not have moved a single square on that chessboard without being covered by more powerful pieces.

Why would he among all those others be chosen to become the point man for the collectivist movements that wish to take full control of the country? Because he is malleable, chimerical, and can be virtually anything to anyone who claims to be a victim of something. Also, he has demonstrated his ability to overcome his many liabilities with the cooperation of a fawning news media.

[tomder55]

It is a 21st Century version of the New Deal. My question is does this drift from volunteerism to compulsory under a BO administration ?
Maybe his civilian volunteer force can work at all those nationalized refineries.

[Choux]

America is not full capitalism nor should it ever be again! Total capitalism is *ruthless*. I guess you liked 1929 when decent people were living in parks and waiting in soup lines.

There was a study done and American Moderates approve of all the improvements done since the days of FDR. Social Security, Medicare, laws governing the financial markets(see what the capitalists unfettered did to the mortgage market, we are up sh*t creek), regulations of drugs, food products, and all the other improvements to society.

Moderates don't want their lives destroyed by the rich elite... greedy speculative bastards. Again, see what Wall Street did to the mortgage market by packaging speculative mortgage securities and selling them for a huge profit! Just a scheme. The proper legislation would have prohibited such hijinks. Now, we have to keep an eye on our banks... we are still teeter-y!

Americans like a mix of Capitalism and socialism...

[BABRAM]

I can believe that you feel you work too hard and make no gains, but it's not the same as handing half your paycheck over to someone else who isn't working at all.

If I remove what I give in taxes, and I keep my family health insurance, short term disability insurance (which are necessities) and let's say I also keep my 401k investment, I actually lose around twenty percent. However if the fat cats that are sitting in the executive perch of corporate America would relinquish fifty percent of their bonus and stock options, most workers in large corps would gain a decent raise to help fight inflation and hire a few more people that need a job. Many that they've laid off. Instead guess what they continue to do?? Hoard the money and plan a whopping 2.5, maybe 3 percent cost of living raise, 4.5 if you're lucky. Whoop-tee-do! Yes, that wonderful Republican voodoo trickle down economics in action.

None of us know for sure what the future will bring but once a person is elected to the highest office in our land there is no turning back.

Well I knew it was not going to be good when GW got reelected that's why I aggressively opposed Dubya's second term bid. What I didn't realize was just a how bad things would become. If I were going to use a word based on current history, I'd say "poor" in the short term future no matter who takes office. In fact McCain in trying to distance himself from Bush, admitted it would take him two terms to get the country in a positive direction. Of course that's coming from John McCain that also admits that economics is not his strongest suit and would continue most the same basic policies.

Curiously, other than Obama's 6 years in the Illinois Senate, and lectures at the Chicago law school, WHAT has he worked so hard at? Has he done actual labor? I don't think his history is of a poor man. His Kenyan father actually graduated from Harvard.

Yes! Congratulations to the father and son! Another good example. Obama's father from the poor country of Kenya became a Harvard graduate.

Barack Obama's Résumé

"Education
Undergraduate
Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA
Undergraduate, 1981-1983

Columbia University
B.A. Political Science with specialization in international relations
Thesis topic: Soviet nuclear disarmament

Graduate
Harvard Law School
J.D. magna laude 1988-1991

President, Harvard Law Review

Organizing
1983-1988 Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago's South Side.
1992 Led Chicago's Project Vote! push. This effort resulted in a record number of voter registrations, over 600,000 in Chicago. 1)
Teaching
1993-2004 Visiting Law and Government Fellow, then Senior Lecturer, in Constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School.
Law Practice
1993-2002 Worked as an associate attorney with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland.
Illinois Senate 1996-2004
chairman, Health and Human Services Committee
United States Senate 2004-present
Member, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions
Member, Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Member, Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs
Bills / Amendments Passed
S.AMDT.1041 to S.1082 To improve the safety and efficacy of genetic tests.
S.AMDT.3073 to H.R.1585 To provide for transparency and accountability in military and security contracting.
S.AMDT.3078 to H.R.1585 Relating to administrative separations of members of the Armed Forces for personality disorder.
S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.
S.AMDT.524 to S.CON.RES.21 To provide $100 million for the Summer Term Education Program supporting summer learning opportunities for low-income students in the early grades to lessen summer learning losses that contribute to the achievement gaps separating low-income students from their middle-class peers.
S.AMDT.599 to S.CON.RES.21 To add $200 million for Function 270 (Energy) for the demonstration and monitoring of carbon capture and sequestration technology by the Department of Energy.
S.AMDT.905 to S.761 To require the Director of Mathematics, Science, and Engineering Education to establish a program to recruit and provide mentors for women and underrepresented minorities who are interested in careers in mathematics, science, and engineering.
S.AMDT.923 to S.761 To expand the pipeline of individuals entering the science, technology, engineering, and mathematics fields to support United States innovation and competitiveness.
S.AMDT.924 to S.761 To establish summer term education programs.
S.AMDT.2519 to H.R.2638 To provide that one of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5 million or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee owes no past due Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2588 to H.R.976 To provide certain employment protections for family members who are caring for members of the Armed Forces recovering from illnesses and injuries incurred on active duty.
S.AMDT.2658 to H.R.2642 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.2692 to H.R.2764 To require a comprehensive nuclear threat reduction and security plan.
S.AMDT.2799 to H.R.3074 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3137 to H.R.3222 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3234 to H.R.3093 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
S.AMDT.3331 to H.R.3043 To provide that none of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used to enter into a contract in an amount greater than $5,000,000 or to award a grant in excess of such amount unless the prospective contractor or grantee makes certain certifications regarding Federal tax liability.
Senate Resolutions Passed:
S.RES.133 : A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.
S.RES.268 : A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as “National Summer Learning Day”.
Other Bills Introduced
S.J.RES.23: A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.
S. 453: Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2007. The Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2007 (H.R.1281), (S.453), would establish criminal penalties for acts of voter deception. Those who knowingly disseminate false information with the intention of keeping others from voting would face up to five years in prison under the legislation. The Act was sponsored by Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.) and 60 cosponsors in the House, and Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) and 15 cosponsors in the Senate. (20 Cosponsors)
S. 2030: A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require reporting relating to bundled contributions made by persons other than registered lobbyists. (1 Cosponsor)
S. 2111: Positive Behavior for Effective Schools Act. A bill to amend the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 to allow State educational agencies, local educational agencies, and schools to increase implementation of early intervention services, particularly school-wide positive behavior supports. (3 Cosponsors)
S. 2066: Back to School: Improving Standards for Nutrition and Physical Education in Schools Act of 2007. A bill to establish nutrition and physical education standards for schools.
S. Con. Res. 46: A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Sickle Cell Disease Awareness Month
S. 2044: Independent Contractor Proper Classification Act of 2007. A bill to provide procedures for the proper classification of employees and independent contractors, and for other purposes. (6 Cosponsors)
S. 2519: Contracting and Tax Accountability Act of 2007. A bill to prohibit the awarding of a contract or grant in excess of the simplified acquisition threshold unless the prospective contractor or grantee certifies in writing to the agency awarding the contract or grant that the contractor or grantee has no seriously delinquent tax debts, and for other purposes.
S. 2433: Global Poverty Act of 2007. A bill to require the President to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to further the United States foreign policy objective of promoting the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of reducing by one-half the proportion of people worldwide, between 1990 and 2015, who live on less than $1 per day. (9 Cosponsors)
S. 2330: Veterans Homelessness Prevention Act. A bill to authorize a pilot program within the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development with the goal of preventing at-risk veterans and veteran families from falling into homelessness, and for other purposes. (1 Cosponsor)"

I was searching for information on that subject and couldn't find a thing although this article made some points. You might find it interesting. At least I did.

Barack Obama: How a Political Non-Entity Rose To Power (Part 2 of 4) by Edward Cline -- Capitalism Magazine
.. he was picked, groomed and promoted to run for the office of President of the United States. Regardless of the image Obama projects, that of an independent force master of his own destiny - and it is a manufactured image, to be sure - it is the nature of modern American politics that he could not have moved a single square on that chessboard without being covered by more powerful pieces.

Why would he among all those others be chosen to become the point man for the collectivist movements that wish to take full control of the country? Because he is malleable, chimerical, and can be virtually anything to anyone who claims to be a victim of something. Also, he has demonstrated his ability to overcome his many liabilities with the cooperation of a fawning news media.

Edward Cline still claims that Barack Obama is a Muslim. Nothing against good law biding Muslims, but Obama has never practiced Islam. Never! I've got more news for Cline, it wasn't so long ago that the media was on Obama if he sneered in a church service the wrong direction. If anything this campaign has proven is that article writers like Ed Cline are dime a dozen. With a minion plus of issues to rake over in the garden of politics, that idiot goes for the Muslim card, and suggests that he has never worked for anything and was being promoted by the media. A complete amhorets chamoyer. A waste of time and insult to our literate society.

[purplewings]

Bobby
I can find plenty on what Obama 'hopes' to do once in office, I was asking what work (physical?) aside from political that he'd ever done in response to your mentioning him as a hard working man.

It takes money to attend Harvard... how does a 'poor' family get this big money?

There are dozens of stories about Obama's Muslim childhood all over the internet. I've even seen in his own book that as a child he attended Muslim school, and as an adult became Christian. Why does he deny it in his campaign when he's already stated it? He may be a fine President but In my opinion there is too much mystery about him.

Obama was 'quite religious in Islam'
Contemporaries, records dispute campaign claim that he was never 'practicing Muslim'

[BABRAM]

Bobby
I can find plenty on what Obama 'hopes' to do once in office, I was asking what work (physical?) aside from political that he'd ever done in response to your mentioning him as a hard working man.

It takes money to attend Harvard.........how does a 'poor' family get this big money?

There are dozens of stories about Obama's Muslim childhood all over the internet. I've even seen in his own book that as a child he attended Muslim school, and as an adult became Christian. Why does he deny it in his campaign when he's already stated it? He may be a fine President but IMHO there is too much mystery about him.

Obama was 'quite religious in Islam'
Contemporaries, records dispute campaign claim that he was never 'practicing Muslim'

Listen PW if you want to vote for the gardener or the bag boy from the local grocery than do so. Better yet go to the labor temps and find the president. No, no, no. Here! Drive to a construction site and see how many workers went to Harvard and earned a degree and became a practising lawyers. So you want to believe that Obama a Muslim based on what you read on someone's web site! I've got news for you I had a few semesters in a Christian college and I'm Jewish. While I value your views and opinions, your arguments here are well contained within the box. Thinking outside the box is possible. Really.

[SkyGem]

Listen PW if you want to vote for the gardener or the bag boy from the local grocery than do so. Better yet go to the labor temps and find the president. No, no, no. Here! Drive to a construction site and see how many workers went to Harvard and earned a degree and became a practising lawyers. So you want to believe that Obama a Muslim based on what you read on someones web site! I've got news for you I had a few semesters in a Christian college and I'm Jewish. While I value your views and opinions, your arguments here are well contained within the box. Thinking outside the box is possible. Really.

Bobby, why deny a hard-core fact? Is it that he is trying to deny his Muslim heritage or is it that now that he's the apparent Democratic nominee he is trying to throw all Muslims under the bus!

________________________________________
Interested in the November presidential election? Just Say No Deal!

http://justsaynodeal.com/

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Welcome to WriteHillaryIn.com

[BABRAM]

Bobby, why deny a hard-core fact?! Is it that he is trying to deny his Muslim heritage or is it that now that he's the apparent Democratic nominee he is trying to throw all Muslims under the bus!

Sure! :rolleyes: He's bowing to mecca five times a day while your ringing the church bells down at Saint Hillary McCain. He's about as much a Muslim as you are a Christian minister. The facts are that Obama has openly addressed that his father was a Muslim (although became atheist) and that he himself was raised a Muslim. He didn't inherit his father's "Islam" religion.


Learn the facts here:

snopes.com: Who Is Barack Obama?


Get your reality check here:

YouTube - George Carlin: education and the owners of America

[SkyGem]

Sure! :rolleyes: He's bowing to mecca five times a day while your ringing the church bells down at Saint Hillary McCain. He's about as much a Muslim as you are a Christian minister.

Ah-hah! When the fire gets too close for comfort, try adding anti-minister insults to the flame. Well, I can see plainly what you are now and where you're coming from (as if I didn't know all along). Your tactics stink, Bobby, but then so does your spin when everyone else knows different. You're in DENIAL about this man, just own up to it already. Why work so hard for him? He isn't going to give a rat's behind about you if he gets elected. And unless you work for him, he doesn't even know you or ever will.

The facts are that Obama has openly addressed that his father was a Muslim (although became atheist) and that he himself was raised a Muslim. He didn't inherit his father's "Islam" religion.

More useless spin. People aren't going to buy that this late in the game, Bobby. They know better. Don't you folks ever get tired of trying to cover things up! Enough already.

Learn the facts here:

And YOU learn the facts HERE. This article was written by a lawyer (J.D.) who is also an executive editor and has done research about Obama. You should learn from this article. And if you, as an Obama spinmeister, have a differing opinion, remember, I did not write this article, but I dare you to write Mr. Martin and dispute his words with your spin. You'd be laughed off the phone in the first five seconds.

New York Times credits Andy Martin with exposing Barack Obama's religious 'roots'

Get your reality check here:

And YOU get yours HERE:

TheStar.com | comment | Obama's Muslim heritage

The more I hear you SPIN the matters Obama doesn't want the public to know about, the more I and many others believe there is really something to those stories or you and others wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail so hard to put an opposing spin on them. Just makes you wonder that much more about this man who is not fit to be in the U.S.Senate much less the White House.


________________________________________
Interested in the November presidential election? Just Say No Deal!

Just Say No Deal

Power of Puma: Howard Dean Schemes To Shut Down Democratic Convention

And for ALL Obamanots:

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Welcome to WriteHillaryIn.com

[BABRAM]

You've got big problems Sky.

Fact #1: The clown in your article did so at the beginning of the campaign before the facts came out about Obama's actual religious status as a "Christian. See fools that rush are easily discredited with truth. That's why snopes did the investigation after the misinformation circulated. The other article you presented was the same. Old BS that already was discredited. The worlds round, not flat. You should really keep updated.

Problem#2: You are helping Obama's campaign. It's proven that with every lie spoken about Obama, on forums, Internet, or otherwise, ends up backfiring. Obama opens himself to the public along the campaign trail and polls jump up for his support.


PS. What Christian minister got insulted? Where? I was not addressing Fr_Chuck. He's the only minister I know that takes part in the political discussions regularly.

[SkyGem]

You've got big problems Sky.

Not nearly as big as your problems, Bobby.

Fact #1: The clown in your article did so at the beginning of the campaign before the facts came out about Obama's actual religious status as a "Christian. See fools that rush are easily discredited with truth. That's why snopes did the investigation after the misinformation circulated. The other article you presented was the same. Old BS that already was discredited. The worlds round, not flat. You should really keep updated.

"Clown"? I'd like for you to write or contact this fine renown Lawyer, Editor, and Publisher and tell him what you have said here if you would. Again, the argument is not with me on this. I did not write the article. I'm sure if what you're saying is so, he would have issued a different statement but I have not seen it if he did, therefore, we can continue assuming that what he is saying is the way it is.

Problem#2: You are helping Obama's campaign. It's proven that with every lie spoken about Obama, on forums, Internet, or otherwise, ends up backfiring. Obama opens himself to the public along the campaign trail and polls jump up for his support.

Bobby, let me tell you something. By now everyone knows he is a chameleon who will change moment by moment to try to please everyone and will say whatever it takes to win an audience. I do, however, understand your strategy in this forum. It is to discredit anything and everything that one says that does not fit well with your candidate. Obama has a quick answer for everything as he continues to flip-flop and turn in the direction of how the wind blows. Again, let me ask you. Do you work for him? Are you one of his staff members? I have heard that his campaign has people on forums, etc. to pull for Obama when things are said about him. So, continuing to berate me and others when responding is not going to change the fact that this open forum allows for full disclosure and information to be brought out about a candidate, etc. It far from helps the candidate if what is being said is right on target but continue to believe as you will, it is your prerogative.


PS. What Christian minister got insulted? Where? I was not addressing Fr_Chuck. He's the only minister I know that takes part in the political discussions regularly.

Continuing this line of egregious response is very typical of you, so I will excuse you as one who knows very little to even be discussing items in this forum. If you had any sense you would face up to what is being said, take a moment to reflect, and then come down from that cloud you're on in supporting Obama and come to your senses. Remember, unless you work for him, he does not even know you're alive nor would he care one iota about you should he become elected. Your continued, blind defense of him and the way you do it, highly discredits you as a person with any kind of integrity. Again, would you contact Mr. Martin to tell him what you said here about him and his article that would help clear up matters or are you afraid he would put you in your place as you deserve.

________________________________________
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Welcome to WriteHillaryIn.com

[Choux]

American moderates and the middle class *LOVE "SOCIALISM"*

Social security, medicare, laws governing financial markets, laws governing healthy food and drugs etc, a social safety net, on and on.

That if a fact. There was a study done showing that moderates want to keep many aspects of "socialism" as it protects their well-being and safety!! Free wheeling capitalism causes great disasters an inordinate power in the hands of the wealthy elite.

[progunr]

American moderates and the middle class *LOVE "SOCIALISM"*

Social security, medicare, laws governing financial markets, laws governing healthy food and drugs etc, a social safety net, on and on.

That if a fact. There was a study done showing that moderates want to keep many aspects of "socialism" as it protects their well-being and safety!!! Free wheeling capitalism causes great disasters an inordinate power in the hands of the wealthy elite.

Ah yes, those evil over achievers!

Shame on them for actually doing something that resulted in their financial success.

Shame on them for creating jobs, and actually doing things to improve our economy, and provide avenues for others to succeed as well.

Shame on such evil, horrible, capitalistic elite's.

I just happened to actually read your signature...

Politics without principal, Wealth without work, Knowledge without character...

I don't think Gandhi would care too much for YOUR candidate, or the principals he stands for.

[BABRAM]

Continuing this line of egregious response is very typical of you, so I will excuse you as one who knows very little to even be discussing items in this forum. If you had any sense you would face up to what is being said, take a moment to reflect, and then come down from that cloud you're on in supporting Obama and come to your senses. Remember, unless you work for him, he does not even know you're alive nor would he care one iota about you should he become elected. Your continued, blind defense of him and the way you do it, highly discredits you as a person with any kind of integrity. Again, would you contact Mr. Martin to tell him what you said here about him and his article that would help clear up matters or are you afraid he would put you in your place as you deserve.

Do you ever get any news that's up to date?? The reason you have a difficult discussing anything with anybody in these forums, is because you're a talking miscue of misinformation. Notice that nobody is coming to help bail water from your sinking ship? Not even McCain is ready to leap off that deep-end. Now find out what everybody else already knows about "Andy Martin." And BTW you know exactly where I work from our little conversation about a month ago. So send Andy Martin over when he grows a set. I've got a special place for liars. :)




MyDD :: Source of Muslim smear found: It's the 'Obama Expert'!!


"by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner, Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:08:44 PM EST

Surely, everyone knows about the viral "OMG! OBAMA IS A MUSLIM!!" smear e-mail.

Well, the source of the wildly false material that's been popularized by the e-mail "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ntent/article/2008/06/27/AR2008062703781 .html?hpid=topnews">has been discovered. And it's none other than self-proclaimed "Obama Expert" Andy Martin.

Some of the Obama supporters here may remember Andy Martin from the dark primary days. Martin's become something of a small running joke on this site after he was touted in a MyDD diary as imminently "exposing" the REAL Obama-Rezko connection. Or something.



Needless to say, Martin's a crank and a crackpot, the "journalist" version of Larry Sinclair.

The Washington Post's story tells how intrepid Obama supporters Danielle Allen tracked down the source of the smears using some highly advanced computer search methods (I believe they call it "the Google").

Although people may have believed Obama was a Muslim before, thanks to that whole "Hussein" thing (and of course, being non-lily white). But the fabricated "proof" incorporated into the e-mail had a powerful effect as it spread:


During that time, polls show the number of voters who mistakenly believe Obama is a Muslim rose -- from 8 percent to 13 percent between November 2007 and March 2008. And some cited this religious mis-affiliation when explaining their primary votes against him.

Oddly enough, Martin was outed as the source last October by The Nation's Chris Hayes. Ben Smith at Politico reminded everyone of this today. But I guess it took a story in the WaPo, whose readership dwarfs that of the Nation, to really get this story into the spotlight.

Anyway, Danielle Allen tracked Martin down by running a peculiar phrase in the e-mail through Google:

"ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Kuran (Their equivalency to our Bible, but very different beliefs)."

The misspelling of Koran as "Kuran" and the phrase "Their equivalency" were why she chose this particular sentence as her jumping-off point.

Sure enough, the earliest mention for the e-mail she found as a--wait for it--freerepublic posting from January 8, 2007. And the source material for that posting came from an article Andy Martin wrote on August 10, 2004, and posted and e-mailed around the Internet. One assumes it didn't gain much traction until Obama became a candidate for president years later.

Martin was trying to run against Obama for the Senate seat Obama ultimately won in 2004, and claims that he unearthed the "truth" by some serious detective work:


As a candidate you learn how to harness the Internet. You end up really learning how to work the street. I sort of picked this story up as a sideline." Martin said the primary basis for his belief was simple -- Obama's father was a Muslim.

Picked up and passed along by nutjob freepers, the smear went viral, and that's where we are today. Now, Martin publishes his own online "newsletter" that no one reads and holds "press conferences" no one attends. Oh, and for any of our trolls here who don't understand why being called a Muslim is a 'smear," that's not what the e-mail says. It accuses him of being a fraud and a liar, an America-hating Manchurian Muslim who learned radical Islam in madrassas, all proved using ridiculously fake "evidence." That's a smear.

So folks, the moral of the story is: beware the Obama Expert!"