[cozyk]

God gave His opinion in the Bible.

So why are you arguing about it? It must not be very clear.

[Tj3]

So why are you arguing about it? It must not be very clear.

Keep in mind that some people do not base their doctrine solely on the Bible - for some it is the denominational interpretation or additions to the Bible.

In any case, [people are not perfect though God's word is - God told us to correct and study with each other, and thus disagreeing is not an issue on non-essentials. The important thing is to be willing to submit our views to the word of God.

You are welcome to join the discussion on the topic.

[sndbay]

But the question keeps coming up - which baptism - the Holy Spirit or Water?



So what atoned for their sins in the OT if not the blood that Christ shed on the cross?

Okay,, think of it this way and I hope I am explaining correctly..

This is way I say unlike what churches teach today, Christ blood shed set us free from sin. That included OT and NT... What was once leaving us in a curse of sin, has taken the curse away. The one time blood sacrifice that brought us back to the image of righteousness in which we were created to be. We are no longer filthy rags, because once we leave the law which told of sin. We are now to establish the LAW of Faith.

ok

[cozyk]

Think I'm going to unsubscribe because all this disagreement is driving me nuts. Talk about beating a dead horse. Give it a rest. Why don't you just agree to disagree? See you around.

[Tj3]

Okay,, think of it this way and I hope I am explaining correctly..

This is way I say unlike what churches teach today, Christ blood shed set us free from sin. That included OT and NT...

Agreed.

This being the case, then we can look at the plan of salvation, whether in the OT or NT as one and the same plan, with the cross as the center of history, those saints in the OT looking forward to the coming of the cross, and those in our timeframe looking back at the death of Christ on the cross and His resurrection.

Do we agree?

[sndbay]

Tom, people do not like this because this is saying no to sin.. Not permitted to be filthy rags but to be righteous, and as one with Christ is far more then what they will say is possible. That is what brings in the works and faith as one.

It is not easy but it is the cross we bear in our love for God.

Be ye holy for I am HOLY

[sndbay]

Agreed.

This being the case, then we can look at the plan of salvation, whether in the OT or NT as one and the same plan, with the cross as the center of history, those saints in the OT looking forward to the coming of the cross, and those in our timeframe looking back at the death of Christ on the cross and His resurrection.

Do we agree?

Yes.. But you have to look for the sacrifice you bear carrying the cross It means you follow Christ in One LORD ONE Faith One Baptism= SALVATION

[Tj3]

Tom, people do not like this because this is saying no more sin.. Not permitted to be filthy rags but to be righteous, and as one with Christ is far more then what they will say is possible. That is what brings in the works and faith as one.

It is not easy but it is the cross we bear in our love for God.

Be ye holy for I am HOLY

I know that people don't like it. Because today people don't want to know that sin exists - because once it does, they must respond. And it also means that there is nothing that we can do to earn our salvation, it is through Christ's sacrifice on the cross alone.

[Tj3]

Yes.. But you have to look for the sacrifice you bear carrying the cross It means you follow Christ in One LORD ONE Faith One Baptism= SALVATION

Yes, right - once we are saved, we need to follow Christ, and we are to be obedient to Him. Scripture says that none of us are perfect in that regard, but as the Holy Spirit indwelling us guides us, we will grow to be more the person that God wants us to be.

That being the case, we also agree that we must follow Christ in One LORD ONE Faith One Baptism= SALVATION.

In John 7:39 we are told that ALL who believe in Christ receive the Holy Spirit. And we cannot receive the Holy Spirit unless we first belief in One Lord, through the One Faith in Him. So once we receive Jesus as Saviour, we share the One Lord, One Faith and One baptism with all true believers.

After we are saved, we follow the Lord in obedience in water baptism.

[sndbay]

I know that people don't like it. Because today people don't want to know that sin exists - because once it does, they must respond. And it also means that there is nothing that we can do to earn our salvation, it is through Christ's sacrifice on the cross alone.

Hold on Tom... You are right sin does exist. And people like the ability to sled along and do nothing in return. What comes once you realize you have been set free (REJOICE) indeed. but then walk in Christ as He will dwell within you. But if one returns to unrighteousness and sin intentional, there is not being saved a second time. You must think before doing, and out of love for Christ's sacrifice bear the cross.

[sndbay]

Yes, right - once we are saved, we need to follow Christ, and we are to be obedient to Him. Scripture says that none of us are perfect in that regard, but as the Holy Spirit indwelling us guides us, we will grow to be more the person that God wants us to be.

That being the case, we also agree that we must follow Christ in One LORD ONE Faith One Baptism= SALVATION.

In John 7:39 we are told that ALL who believe in Christ receive the Holy Spirit. And we cannot receive the Holy Spirit unless we first belief in One Lord, through the One Faith in Him. So once we receive Jesus as Saviour, we share the One Lord, One Faith and One baptism with all true believers.

After we are saved, we follow the Lord in obedience in water baptism.

I would give you green but it won't let me.. REJOICE... You have said it..

[Tj3]

Hold on Tom... You are right sin does exist. And people like the ability to sled along and do nothing in return. What comes once you realize you have been set free (REJOICE) indeed. but then walk in Chris as He will dwell within you. But if one returns to unrighteousness and sin intentional, there is not being saved a second time. You must think before doing, and out of love for Christ's sacrifice bear the cross.

Agreed, with one variation.

You said

"But if one returns to unrighteousness and sin intentional, there is not being saved a second time. "

I would re-word this to say:


"But if one returns to rejecting Christ as Saviour, there is not being saved a second time. "

[sndbay]

Agreed, with one variation.

You said

"But if one returns to unrighteousness and sin intentional, there is not being saved a second time. "

I would re-word this to say:


"But if one returns to rejecting Christ as Saviour, there is not being saved a second time. "

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

I think the verse I am thinking of is in Hebrews.. I know we have discussed it before. It says unrighteousness

[Tj3]

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

I think the verse I am thinking of is in Hebrews.. I know we have discussed it before. It says unrighteousness

Heb 6:3-7
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
NKJV

[sndbay]

Heb 6:3-7
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
NKJV

Yes, and from here Tom the truth continues in strong meat where you leave the milk of babes (Hebrews 5:13)

Newness of Life in Christ

Eph 4:23-24 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

[Tj3]

Yes, and from here Tom the truth continues in strong meat bwhere by you leave the milk of babes (Hebrews 5:13)

Newness of Life in Christ

Eph 4:23-24 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, and it is Hebrews 6 which makes it clear that we can reject Christ after being saved, and ceased to be saved, but there is no second salvation.

[sndbay]

Yes, and it is Hebrews 6 which makes it clear that we can reject Christ after being saved, and ceased to be saved, but there is no second salvation.

Yes...

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

And we are no longer servants because Christ calls them that follow, HIS friend

James 2:23-24 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

[Tj3]

Yes...

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

And we are no longer servants because Christ calls them that follow, HIS friend

James 2:23-24 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

It is important to understand what the word "faith" means. In Greek the word "faith" is the same as "faithfulness". So when we say that faith without works is dead, the context can be understood if we read it also as "faithfulness without works is dead".

In other words, it is not the works themselves which are important, but rather our faithfulness is exhibited in our works. If there are no works, in what way are we being faithful? And ultimately, if we are not being faithful, do we truly have faith?

[sndbay]

It is important to understand what the word "faith" means. In Greek the word "faith" is the same as "faithfulness". So when we say that faith without works is dead, the context can be understood if we read it also as "faithfulness without works is dead".

In other words, it is not the works themselves which are important, but rather our faithfulness is exhibited in our works. If there are no works, in what way are we being faithful? And ultimately, if we are not being faithful, do we truly have faith?

Could not agree with you more..

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

I have been studying the scripture concerning the perfecting faith.

[arcura]

Peace and kindness is my wish and hope for all, all the time.
Fred