[Credendovidis]

If there is one bad common thing that history has shown, it has to be the co-operation between - and supplementing of - religion and government, a joint operation to keep "the people" quiet and obedient to those in power.
Even in the nation that was based on a strict separation between state and church the theists have - by years of twisting and turning - managed to get their foot between the door and the post once again.

No wonder : how wonderful it must be for a King or President to be able in times of stress and danger to call on some claimed-to-exist deity for assistance. Or to thank (or ask from) that deity for something the government is actually responsible for itself , and even in some cases failed to do.

"God bless this country" or "God bless America" : what a terrible meaning that sentence actually has...
They never say : "God bless humanity" or "God bless us all on earth". Reagan was the last President I heard saying "God bless us all". We know that what is called the "Western World" is the richest part of humanity. It consists of less than 1/6 of all of humanity at most. Still the "leaders" ask "God" to bless only them. How selfish.

1/2 of humanity suffers from malnutrition, 1/5 of humanity slowly dies from starvation, but the wealthiest nation on earth asks for supra-natural blessings and so for more and more and more.

Governments have always misused religion to further their own interests. Logically : it trains people to resign to inequality and lack of control. And who wants to serve in an army and die for the country it defends, unless you are brainwashed into believing on an hereafter plus plus plus as reward? It are NOT just the Muslim fundamentalist terrorists who think they are awarded for their "dying in combat". An army of chaplains is just as busy with your own soldiers leading them into the same mindset.

Nothing easier for a Government to defend itself with "it is "God's will" or "it's a natural disaster but "God" will take good care of all those who perished".

Karl Marx was right, when the stated : Religion is the opium of the people!
And governments will do anything to keep it that way.

Any comments?

:rolleyes:

·

[N0help4u]

Summed up pretty much why I do not like religion and government.

[Credendovidis]

Summed up pretty much why I do not like religion and government.

Uhhhh :... Hoooo Hoooo Hoooo ( that sounds like Santa Claus) !

Since when do we agree on something ?

:D :D :D :D :D

·

[N0help4u]

I do believe this is about the third time we have agreed on something.

[Credendovidis]

I do believe this is about the third time we have agreed on something.

Really ? What is this world coming too... This has to stop...

:D :D :D :D :D

[Choux]

One complaint that America's founding fathers had with the British colonial system was the fact that the King, united with the Church, were a powerful tyrannical force against the will of the people.

Some American colonials wanted freedom of religion and freedom*from* religion.
Some American colonials wanted a Republic, a democracy of sorts, a country of their own.
Some American colonials didn't want their wealth sent to England.
And, so on.

Those who steep themselves in religion are seeking a domineering authoritarian figure who has all the answers, no matter if it is an imaginary figure called God! They will put themselves in mental chains all too willingly to avoid responsibility of thinking; they want to follow. They also value the idea of a strong dictatorial government head to tell them what to do. Hence, the attack on the American Congress and Supreme Court in favor of a dictatorial Presidency in America. Sickening!

(I was reading a little Nietzsche this morning, so I'm all fired up!)

Marx was correct:::Religion not only puts people to sleep, it makes them value passivity and compliance to authority over developing rationality, courage and action.

[Credendovidis]

I was reading a little Nietzsche this morning, so I'm all fired up! Marx was correct:::Religion not only puts people to sleep, it makes them value passivity and compliance to authority over developing rationality, courage and action.

What about stating "God bless this country" or "God bless America", and never "God bless humanity" or "God bless us all on earth"? What a selfishness... For such a wealthy nation... As if Billions of poor and hungry people do not exist or not need part of that blessing... Where happened suddenly to that Christian love?

:confused:

·

[Galveston1]

One complaint that America's founding fathers had with the British colonial system was the fact that the King, united with the Church, were a powerful tyrannical force against the will of the people.

Some American colonials wanted freedom of religion and freedom*from* religion.
Some American colonials wanted a Republic, a democracy of sorts, a country of their own.
Some American colonials didn't want their wealth sent to England.
And, so on.

Those who steep themselves in religion are seeking a domineering authoritarian figure who has all the answers, no matter if it is an imaginary figure called God! They will put themselves in mental chains all too willingly to avoid responsibility of thinking; they want to follow. They also value the idea of a strong dictatorial government head to tell them what to do. Hence, the attack on the American Congress and Supreme Court in favor of a dictatorial Presidency in America. Sickening!

(I was reading a little Nietzsche this morning, so I'm all fired up!)

Marx was correct:::Religion not only puts people to sleep, it makes them value passivity and compliance to authority over developing rationality, courage and action.

Interesting! I note that all of the Communist governments in recent history have also been Atheistic. That's too often for co-incidence. Your Communist leanings are noted.

[N0help4u]

Interesting! I note that all of the Communist governments in recent history have also been Atheistic. That's too often for co-incidence. Your Communist leanings are noted.

To back that up read
Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

[Galveston1]

I want to add something else. Scripture requires that the Church be A-policical. Individual Christians are commanded to obey the laws of the land where they reside. Hence, in a free society, Christians are free to be involved in the political process, but not free to be rebels. Those societies falsely called churches in history that became either powers behind the throne or pawns of the throne were church in name only.
Christians of today view the efforts to eliminate all mention of God from our society as an ongoing effort to bring in an Atheistic government which is just as antagonistic to the Constitution as would be a Catholic or Baptist government.

[inthebox]

What about stating "God bless this country" or "God bless America", and never "God bless humanity" or "God bless us all on earth"? What a selfishness ... For such a wealthy nation ... As if Billions of poor and hungry people do not exist or not need part of that blessing ... Where happened suddenly to that Christian love?

:confused:

·

This is funny! You don't believe in God, so why should you be offended? :p

If a fsm believer says "fsm bless Canada," it sure as heck does not offend me.


As a Christian, I believe all blessings come from God the creator. God has blessed this country [USA] and it is a request to continue.

Notice that "God bless America" is not followed by "and forget the rest of the world", or "damn the poor, " you came to that conclusion all on your own. :eek:

[N0help4u]

Yeah we are not to get offended by what others do so called religious art that mocks Jesus and Mary is okay --God Bless is an offense.

[Credendovidis]

This is funny! You don't believe in God, so why should you be offended?!

It has nothing to do with what I believe or not believe. I criticize the thinking behind focusing only on the US itself : it shows so much disrespect for - and lack of interest in - the billions of needy elsewhere on this planet.
God as such has nothing to do with it. Of course not. A deity that is unable to show it's own existence... who needs it's (non-existing) assistance ?

:rolleyes:

·

[inthebox]

And believe or not, Christians pray for non-believer's. They also go on missions here and in other countries to help and serve the poor and bring the Gospel.


Katrina Relief - Christian Appalachian Project


The Salvation Army: What We Believe


Ever hear of the ymC[HRISTIAN]a?

American Generosity is Underappreciated


Actual dollar contributions reveal that the U.S. is the world’s largest donor.

Matthew 25


34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'.....


45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

[Credendovidis]

and believe or not, Christians pray for non-believer's. They also go on missions here and in other countries to help and serve the poor and bring the Gospel.

To non-believers it is totally irrelevant if you pray for them. To them you are just wasting your time and energy.

Katrina was a local US disaster. A disaster that on world standards was a small local problem involving (relatively) rich people, which was mainly caused by prolonged poor maintenance of the levies.
What about the millions of people who have no roof above their heads permanently ? What about the millions of children that die each month of starvation? See that in relation to the increasing number of over-fed and over-fat children the US is breeding!

A few Christians try to spread the word. Literally. But "spreading the word" should be 95% action, and 5% word!
Where is the 95% action? And why are so few gringo's involved ?
Because the US culture is one of mainly focusing on the own interests of getting richer...
All your great religious leader had as earthly possessions were the clothes he was wearing!

If you want to spread the (true) gospel than you should start spreading your wealth first !

:rolleyes:

·

[Credendovidis]

I better repeat the topic question :

Religion, Governments, and control over the people

If there is one bad common thing that history has shown, it has to be the co-operation between - and supplementing of - religion and government, a joint operation to keep "the people" quiet and obedient to those in power.
Even in the nation that was based on a strict separation between state and church the theists have - by years of twisting and turning - managed to get their foot between the door and the post once again.

No wonder : how wonderful it must be for a King or President to be able in times of stress and danger to call on some claimed-to-exist deity for assistance. Or to thank (or ask from) that deity for something the government is actually responsible for itself , and even in some cases failed to do.

"God bless this country" or "God bless America" : what a terrible meaning that sentence actually has ...
They never say : "God bless humanity" or "God bless us all on earth". Reagan was the last President I heard saying "God bless us all". We know that what is called the "Western World" is the richest part of humanity. It consists of less than 1/6 of all of humanity at most. Still the "leaders" ask "God" to bless only them. How selfish.

1/2 of humanity suffers from malnutrition, 1/5 of humanity slowly dies from starvation, but the wealthiest nation on earth asks for supra-natural blessings and so for more and more and more.

Governments have always misused religion to further their own interests. Logically : it trains people to resign to inequality and lack of control. And who wants to serve in an army and die for the country it defends, unless you are brainwashed into believing on an hereafter plus plus plus as reward? It are NOT just the Muslim fundamentalist terrorists who think they are awarded for their "dying in combat". An army of chaplains is just as busy with your own soldiers leading them into the same mindset.

Nothing easier for a Government to defend itself with "it is "God's will" or "it's a natural disaster but "God" will take good care of all those who perished".

Karl Marx was right, when the stated : Religion is the opium of the people!
And governments will do anything to keep it that way.

Any comments on that link between religion and the `powers that be´?

:)

·

[N0help4u]

To non-believers it is totally irrelevant if you pray for them. To them you are just wasting your time and energy.

:rolleyes:

·

To non believers it is totally irrelevant if you pray for them, BUT IF you say God Bless USA (me) that is offensive because you are not including us all, humanity, (you-the non-believer that finds prayer totally irrelevant) that is offensive because it shows how selfish America is because they do not say God Bless all (which includes non believers that find prayer totally irrelevant).

It doesn't matter (totally irrelevant) that you pray for the disaster victims of other countries, it doesn't matter that you pray for the starving children in Bangladesh or where ever, just send money?

Of the $122.8 billion of foreign aid provided by Americans in 2005 (the most current data available), $95.5 billion, or 79 percent, came from private foundations, corporations, voluntary organizations, universities, religious organizations and individuals, says the annual Index of Global Philanthropy. United States Is Largest Donor of Foreign Aid, Report Says

Often too, America sends billions of dollars for foreign aid and before it makes it to the intended need it is wasted.
20/20, or one of those type shows, had a thing on how America sends money and they showed how this dictator in Africa takes the money and buys up Rolls Royces and built a large gold fountain in his foyer and left his people starving.
Then America is left looking like the bad guy.
I do agree that America does waste too much food by over stocking grocery shelves and then throwing it away.
Not saying that America is all that but it isn't as bad as people try to paint it as being.

[Credendovidis]

To non believers it is totally irrelevant if you pray for them, BUT IF you say God Bless USA (me) that is offensive because you are not including us all, humanity, (you-the non-believer that finds prayer totally irrelevant) that is offensive because it shows how selfish America is because they do not say God Bless all (which includes non believers that find prayer totally irrelevant).

There are 300+Million US citizens. 250 Million are more or less Christian.
In the rest of the world there are 1750 Million Christians.
Many of them are dying from hunger or are very poor.

It is them who you insult. Not a non-believer like me. I just observe that you insult them...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

·

[inthebox]

To non-believers it is totally irrelevant if you pray for them. To them you are just wasting your time and energy.

A Christian's time and energy is for God's glory. Salvation is available to all who choose to believe. :)

Katrina was a local US disaster. A disaster that on world standards was a SMALL local problem involving (relatively) rich people, which was mainly caused by prolonged poor maintenance of the levies.

You go on and on about the rest of the world, yet have no compassion for what happened in New Orleans? :(

What about the millions of people who have no roof above their heads permanently ? What about the millions of children that die each month of starvation? See that in relation to the increasing number of over-fed and over-fat children the US is breeding!

A few Christians try to spread the word. Literally. But "spreading the word" should be 95% action, and 5% word!
Where is the 95% action? And why are so few gringo's involved ?

Now, you come on religious threads and disparage God and faith, yet think you know how Christians should act? How sanctimonius of you.
Have you looked at the links? Try googling Christian charities and contribute.

Because the US culture is one of mainly focusing on the own interests of getting richer ...
All your great religious leader had as earthly possessions were the clothes he was wearing!

If you want to spread the (true) gospel than you should start spreading your wealth first !

:rolleyes:

·

US culture and Christianity are 2 different things as all you "separation of Church and state " like it.

As a non-believer how can you know what the Gospel is? John 3:16 - look it up.

God did not send His only Son to die and resurrect just to get us to "spread the wealth."
It is for the forgiveness of sins, for salvation. :D


"Spread the wealth" that is a political party line [ Democrat, Communist, Socialist etc.. ] as a guise for higher taxes and more power for the politicians.

Any charlatan can tell you to "spread the wealth" while not doing it himself. :cool:

[N0help4u]

A Christian's time and energy is for God's glory. Salvation is available to all who choose to believe. :)



You go on and on about the rest of the world, yet have no compassion for what happened in New Orleans? :(




Now, you come on religious threads and disparage God and faith, yet think you know how Christians should act?! How sanctimonius of you.
Have you looked at the links? Try googling Christian charities and contribute.




US culture and Christianity are 2 different things as all you "separation of Church and state " like it.

As a non-believer how can you know what the Gospel is? John 3:16 - look it up.

God did not send His only Son to die and resurrect just to get us to "spread the wealth."
It is for the forgiveness of sins, for salvation. :D


"Spread the wealth" that is a political party line [ Democrat, Communist, Socialist etc..] as a guise for higher taxes and more power for the politicians.

Any charlatan can tell you to "spread the wealth" while not doing it himself. :cool:

AMEN EXACTLY!