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Ethereal · Jun 28, 2008, 08:35 PM

Here's the story (sorry it's so long, I had a lot of details to cover):

About 2 months ago, my friend's contract with the apartment complex I was staying at was terminated when they found out that he was no longer living there and was subletting to me (which isn't allowed at the complex, but the management knows exactly what happened and said he is to blame for this, but it's probably irrelevant to the case). If he didn't get someone to take over the lease, he would owe the management $2,000 for having to terminate the lease early. He complained that he didn't have that kind of money and that it was my fault that someone found out I was living there. If I took over the lease for him, it would only cost him $350 (and me around $450). Looking back, I don't know why I said it, but being a good friend and out of the kindness of my heart I offered to reimburse him the $350 transfer fee once he had paid the management because he said he couldn't afford that either, and I couldn't sign the lease until he paid the money. Two months have gone by and he hadn't contacted me about getting the money until Tuesday, when I received a voicemail from him. I recorded the voicemail he left me, in which he said:

"Hey XXXXX this is XXXX . I was just calling because I've been told that you don't plan on paying me back for something you said you would pay me back for, and that isn't cool, and if you don't call me back I'm going to have to take legal action because we had an agreement. You can't DO that kind of stuff. Okay? So, we need to talk. If you don't talk to me, you will be served papers. I already gone through the process because XXXXX told me you didn't plan on paying me back. So, this is my attempt to get a hold of you. This is for legal reasons. Yeah. Give me a call. Bye."

I would like to make it clear that I never said I didn't intend on paying him back. His best friend is my room mate, and she likes to relay things back and forth while twisting the truth. I learned my lesson but I only told her that I didn't have the money to pay him back and I don't think it's fair that he's demanding it from me. She in turn relayed that to him saying that I told her I had no intention of paying him the money.

So after I listened to the voicemail, I called him back and said that I couldn't afford to pay him back the money. He said well that's too bad because you said you would, and if you don't pay me the $350 you'll be issued papers and will have to end up paying for the $350 plus court fees. After being threatened with that, I told him I don't know how I'm going to do it but I'll get the money back to him as soon as possible. He also told me that he got kicked out of his apartment because he didn't have enough money and was forced to live with his parents again, but he assumed I would pay him the money anyways. He would have had to pay $2,000 if I hadn't taken over the lease for terminating it early, so I'm not sure why he thinks this is okay. He said he wouldn't pay it because he didn't have to. I don't know how that works...

A few more details: We had never set a specific date or payment plan for the money to be paid back. He didn't offer anything to me in return for paying him back for something he was responsible for paying to the management in the first place. After calling him back I still never set a specific date as to when I was going to pay him back the money. I said I didn't have the money to pay him but somehow I would come up with it.

If he indeed DOES intend to have papers served to me, would I have any defense? Is this a legal oral contract? I've never had to deal with something like this and really need help. I'm just a college student, I'm living off loans at the moment, and I really can't afford to go to court and pay that kind of money.

Thank you for anyone who is kind enough to help me with my situation.

simoneaugie · Jun 29, 2008, 12:15 AM

No one has taken a stab at your question yet. I don't know the laws about leasing. And we need to know what state you are in.

My feeling is that if he has had to move in with his parents, he probably can't afford to proceed with more than a bullying routine. I could be wrong. I do hope that someone who is knowledgeable in this subject area will see your post.

westnlas · Jun 29, 2008, 12:27 AM

I agree. This verbal contract may not be enforceable in court anyway. As you said, it lacks specific performance. A date needed to be set. If you had said I will pay you on payday, or when I receive the deposit, etc it would be valid. As you say, promising something with no time frame is not a promise.

He is trying to shake you down. I doubt seriously if plans to or is even able to take you to court. When he calls again, tell him that you have gotten advice and intend to sue him for your eviction. You weren't aware that what he was doing was illegal and you need money to move. What the heck, more than one player can bluff in the same hand.

Ethereal · Jun 29, 2008, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by simoneaugie

No one has taken a stab at your question yet. I don't know the laws about leasing. And we need to know what state you are in.

My feeling is that if he has had to move in with his parents, he probably can't afford to proceed with more than a bullying routine. I could be wrong. I do hope that someone who is knowledgable in this subject area will see your post.

I'm not sure about any of the laws as far as oral contracts go either. I'm in Oregon.

Ethereal · Jun 29, 2008, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by westnlas

I agree. This verbal contract may not be enforceable in court anyway. As you said, it lacks specific performance. A date needed to be set. If you had said I will pay you on payday, or when I receive the deposit, etc it would be valid. As you say, promising something with no time frame is not a promise.

He is trying to shake you down. I doubt seriously if plans to or is even able to take you to court. When he calls again, tell him that you have gotten advice and intend to sue him for your eviction. You weren't aware that what he was doing was illegal and you need money to move. What the heck, more than one player can bluff in the same hand.

I'm just afraid that my roommate will act as his witness and say whatever it takes to make me lose; it's not hard to believe she's capable of doing that. =\

And if it doesn't hold up in court, I'm worried that he'll just harass me for the money until he gets what he wants even if I say, "I'm not going to pay you for something that was your responsibility to pay in the first place."

Personally it shakes me up because I've never ever had to deal with someone demanding money from me. It's not like I borrowed the money and didn't pay him back; if it was then I would know why this was happening and just pay him the money. But this just seems too ridiculous. I want to think that it won't hold up in court but I'm worried that he'll find some kind of loophole to make this work for him.

Thank you for your advice so far :)

JudyKayTee · Jun 29, 2008, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ethereal

Here's the story (sorry it's so long, I had a lot of details to cover):

About 2 months ago, my friend's contract with the apartment complex I was staying at was terminated when they found out that he was no longer living there and was subletting to me (which isn't allowed at the complex, but the management knows exactly what happened and said he is to blame for this, but it's probably irrelevant to the case). If he didn't get someone to take over the lease, he would owe the management $2,000 for having to terminate the lease early. He complained that he didn't have that kind of money and that it was my fault that someone found out I was living there. If I took over the lease for him, it would only cost him $350 (and me around $450). Looking back, I don't know why I said it, but being a good friend and out of the kindness of my heart I offered to reimburse him the $350 transfer fee once he had paid the management because he said he couldn't afford that either, and I couldn't sign the lease until he paid the money. Two months have gone by and he hadn't contacted me about getting the money until Tuesday, when I received a voicemail from him. I recorded the voicemail he left me, in which he said:

"Hey XXXXX this is XXXX . I was just calling because I've been told that you don't plan on paying me back for something you said you would pay me back for, and that isn't cool, and if you don't call me back I'm going to have to take legal action because we had an agreement. You can't DO that kind of stuff. Okay? So, we need to talk. If you don't talk to me, you will be served papers. I already gone through the process because XXXXX told me you didn't plan on paying me back. So, this is my attempt to get a hold of you. This is for legal reasons. Yeah. Give me a call. Bye."

I would like to make it clear that I never said I didn't intend on paying him back. His best friend is my room mate, and she likes to relay things back and forth while twisting the truth. I learned my lesson but I only told her that I didn't have the money to pay him back and I don't think it's fair that he's demanding it from me. She in turn relayed that to him saying that I told her I had no intention of paying him the money.

So after I listened to the voicemail, I called him back and said that I couldn't afford to pay him back the money. He said well that's too bad because you said you would, and if you don't pay me the $350 you'll be issued papers and will have to end up paying for the $350 plus court fees. After being threatened with that, I told him I don't know how I'm going to do it but I'll get the money back to him as soon as possible. He also told me that he got kicked out of his apartment because he didn't have enough money and was forced to live with his parents again, but he assumed I would pay him the money anyways. He would have had to pay $2,000 if I hadn't taken over the lease for terminating it early, so I'm not sure why he thinks this is okay. He said he wouldn't pay it because he didn't have to. I don't know how that works...

A few more details: We had never set a specific date or payment plan for the money to be paid back. He didn't offer anything to me in return for paying him back for something he was responsible for paying to the management in the first place. After calling him back I still never set a specific date as to when I was going to pay him back the money. I said I didn't have the money to pay him but somehow I would come up with it.

If he indeed DOES intend to have papers served to me, would I have any defense? Is this a legal oral contract? I've never had to deal with something like this and really need help. I'm just a college student, I'm living off of loans at the moment, and I really can't afford to go to court and pay that kind of money.

Thank you for anyone who is kind enough to help me with my situation.

Actually you don't need a specific payment date in order to have a binding oral contract - you need both parties to agree on the terms of the contract ("I'll pay you") and both parties have to receive something in exchange for the agreement ("I'll live in the apartment and I'll pay you money.") Oral agreements are enforced in Court every day. It depends on witnesses and which party the Court believes.

My thought is that this apparently was an illegal transaction (your friend and you both appear to have known that he could not legally sublet the condo) and at least in NYS the Courts will not hear a case arising out of an illegal transaction - and that includes an illegal sublet.

Can he sue you? Sure. Will he win? Depends on the proof.

Ethereal · Jun 29, 2008, 11:15 AM

I see. Well the witnesses are going to be a bit messy, imo. There's the room mate, but I also had my father witness me saying I would pay him, and then there's the leasing manager who was on the phone with the guy trying to get the paperwork done to transfer the lease and he started cursing her out. I'm not sure if that's a good character reference or not but I was hoping it would help me out to show what kind of a person he is. I definitely think bringing up the fact that this came out of an illegal transaction will help me though. Thank you so much for your input.

JudyKayTee · Jun 29, 2008, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Ethereal

I see. Well the witnesses are going to be a bit messy, imo. There's the room mate, but I also had my father witness me saying I would pay him, and then there's the leasing manager who was on the phone with the guy trying to get the paperwork done to transfer the lease and he started cursing her out. I'm not sure if that's a good character reference or not but I was hoping it would help me out to show what kind of a person he is. I definitely think bringing up the fact that this came out of an illegal transaction will help me though. Thank you so much for your input.

No, character references don't come up in these cases.

I would look into the illegal transaction thing, though - and if you get a chance, come back and let us know how this works out. I'm always curious to see -