[SingingNun]

I'm sorry this is a long post, I'm just trying to include as much information as I can.

Hello, I just bought a Francis Bacon piano and I have been looking around for someone to tell me a little more about it. This is the only forum (and one of a handful of websites) that even gets the age of the company right! Most say that Francis Bacon started making piano's mid-1800's. Unfortunately, the date embossed inside my piano says that the company was est. in 1789 in New York. Another thing I noticed was that people bashed on this piano, claiming it is low end and not worth while. Just playing it, I would have to disagree.

I had never heard of this piano company until I found this poor piano at a yard sale, going for a whole $20. For some reason, a previous owner decided to paint the outside of it white! :eek: Seeing the finished original product on the inside of the lid, I am heartbroken that they decided to do this. Plus, the white pain is peeling off, and looking at the varnish underneath (where it isn't marred due to being exposed) it looks like no sanding was done prior to painting, making the paint unable to stick over time. Fortunately, I have a family member who has experience restoring these instruments, and I have restored antique pieces, so I won't have to spend a mint having someone else doing it. I don't buy a piano to sell it, unless I meet someone who falls in love with it, and I can part with her ;)

I'm not interested in its worth, unless it's something I should have insured on my homeowners. She has her original ivory keys - and none seem to have been replaced (or were replaced by an expert) looking at the color and the grain. There are no chips or marks on any of the keys. The bench looks original, as it matches the style of piano - the bench legs look like minatures of the piano's. Unfortunately, the bench was also painted in that awful white.

Her last tuning was approximately nine months ago, and she can hold a tune. She had the ultimate test. The yard sale I found her at was only a few blocks away from my house. I had no truck to haul her with. So two neighbors came and helped me. We placed two dollies underneath (when I think of dollies I think of ones with handles, but these were square with four wheels each, no handles), and pushed her home. I've had her for several weeks and she plays as good as the day I got her. The insides look good, except the felt may need to be shaped - since it looks like it hasn't been touched recently. According to who the last owner acquired this paino from, the felt was replaced around 1980, but who knows. All I know is that she plays as beautifully as my Acrosonic does, and has real potential.

The outside is not ornate, and reminds me of a more 1920's style, from the pictures I've seen. The legs of both the piano and bench are square, but there is some detail at the top and bottom of each. The music ledge (not sure of technical name, usually I just point and make up my own terms, sorry) is rounded and swings out, with two hinges that lock into place. The top can be propped up with two capped small, swinging arms.

The inside of the top piece is amazing, it is all done in what looks to be handpainting lettering in gold and silver. It has the name of the company in large gold letters and then lists four of the awards the company received along with the dates and copies of the medals:

First Prize & Medal Mechanic's Institute Fair, Washington 1852

First Prize & Medal Franklin Institute, State of Penn, 1856

Grand Medal & Diploma Centennial Exposition, Phila [sic] Penn 1876

Grand Medal & Diploma World's Columbian Exposition, Chicago Ill [sic] 1893

The pedals seem to be in good working order, and she only has one key that sticks (fortunately not an extremely vital one). The key cover is on a hing, so of course it folds back on itself then slides back.

I'm really curious to know her age. The lady that sold her to me had no idea, and thought she had been gipped when she saw the outside of it, because of the paint. Hence, the buying price of only $20. To me, what's important is what's inside the cabinet, not outside. The outside can always be fixed - the inside is another story altogether. One can have the most beautiful piano in the world, but if it doesn't play, that what good is it. To me, this is a piano that is just begging to be played. I want to play her every time I go by. She sounds beautiful, though I am biased to aged pianos over new, especially with the plastic keys. I just can't get used to them or the new piano sound.

Any help that can be given would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance

Her serial number is 250237

By the way, when I opened up the bottom panel to inspect the inside, I found an old Christmas card from the 50's and a child's love letter!

[Clough]

Well, thanks for such an excellent post! I have been a piano tuner/technician since 1974 and am also a professional pianist. Believe it or not, I am currently restoring, to a great extent, a Francis Bacon upright piano for a customer who lives at least a couple hundred miles away.

I'm glad that you have such an appreciation for the instrument as it is!

Francis Bacon pianos were known for being well built and good instruments to play. That much I can definitely tell you.

I will do some checking on this concerning the age. My library is packed away in boxes to be relocated to the upstairs. The Pierce Piano Atlas that I use for dating is also packed away - somewhere.

But, it does excite me when someone comes along with a post such as the one that you have posted! As such, I will do my best to help you!

It's really cool when we find certain surprises inside of the antiques that we purchase or inherit! I have quite a few stories about the things that I have found in musical instruments!

[SingingNun]

Clough

Thanks for your post and I look forward to learning more about the piano. I'm still in awe that someone would sell a fully functional piano for $20. The Bacon seems really well built. My Acrosonic is a good piano, but it seems almost flimsy looking at this one.

I also can't believe that I see so many people today brushing off an older piano. To me, they have a quality of sound (probably from the craftsmanship) that a lot of the newer ones can't touch. My grandmother has a newer piano - about 7 years old now, and it is a high quality one. I still can't get used to the sound, or the plastic keys. One site gave this advice to someone interested in buying a Francis Bacon Grand (the first sentence is quality advice):

Think of your purchase sort of like getting a new family member. Now imagine that she's 87, decrepid, fragile, and greatly in need of replacement parts for most of her body. You going to take care of her? Not unless you really, really love her. My advise: Find a younger family member.

I hope no aging family member shows up on his doorstep!

[Clough]

You're absolutely correct concerning your idea about the quote!

I have a 1906 Chickering grand and 1885 Everett grand in my living room. I absolutely love them and wouldn't ever trade or sell them. They are once-in-a-lifetime finds! The Everett grand actually has Japanese lions in relief on each side. It's cool!

I'm still checking about the date... Have not found my books yet. I have two copies of the Pierce Piano Atlas. That book is the "Bible" in the industry concerning the dating of the many thousands (or, millions?) of pianos that have been built, according the specific manufacturer. They are in a room with many boxes of books. But, I guess that I had better really dig them out for questions like yours! Although, your type of question does come along rarely. But, I always find it refreshing when one like yours does come along! I would like to assume that there will be more questions like yours in the future, since the questions and answers on this site get really excellent exposure when people are doing searches for things on the Internet.

What is found on the Internet concerning the dating might not be correct, and then again, it might be correct.

I am one that likes to save old pianos, if they are worth saving. Most of them that I have saved are worth saving.

You are correct about the sound quality of the newer ones not matching that of the old ones. I can play things on my pianos that would (and have) break the parts on a newer, and especially, smaller piano. The electric pianos and keyboards also have no match for a finely built older instrument. The actions might be similar, but they aren't as well made. I also tend to break them. But, then I am playing things like harder Liszt and
Chopin that require a lot of finesse and strength. Not everyone is going to be playing those kinds of pieces. So, a piano or keyboard of a lesser quality might be just right for them.

For some additional information concerning old pianos, you might want to click on the links at the bottom of this page to questions about old pianos that I have answered. I did a lot of typing of some of them.

I do have many images of the Francis Bacon upright piano that I am restoring, if you would be interested in seeing some of them. Please let me know.

Thanks!

[SingingNun]

Thanks for the response. It amazes me that people think that the older something is, the worse off it has to be. I see numerous websites telling people not to buy pianos more then ten years old - that newer ones are better and of superior quality. Honestly, most new pianos don't impress me. I've had the opportunity to play on them, my tuner owns a store in town and deals with both old and new. One time, I had the chance to play on a Yahama electronic baby grand - we won't even mention the price of that baby. At first I liked it. Then he got me to play on an old upright, it had been a monster to tune and he wanted someone else to play while he listened to see how it did. There went my lust after the baby grand. Even though they are different pianos, the older one to me sounds better and plays better. Now, give me an older baby grand and then we'll talk...

I would love to see pictures of the one you are restoring. If I had my cable for my camera I could show you what the piano looks like now. When they painted it white, they even put gold trim on it and little angel decals. Ugh. I'm guessing it was more of an ornament in the room instead of an actual working instrument at the time. I also wish I could show you the detail on the inside of the lid. I've never seen anything like it - they even reproduced miniature copies of the medals won. I've seen names and warrenties painted on the inside, but nothing like this.

I didn't know the new ones can break. That says a lot. Good thing I don't play Chopin on my grandmother's. I'm out of practice for the past few months - I had to move for a little while to the East Coast, so I gave my mother the Acrosonic to hold for me. Keyboards just don't cut it. It's a little fustrating - The Warsaw Concerto is one of my favorite pieces, but I just don't have those quick of fingers right now. Soon though.

It breaks my heart to see pianos on Ebay going for as low as a $1 or in one case a penny just so people could get rid of them. Some are upright grands - a full 52". Shoved off into garages, with stuff piled all over them. It's a shame. Personally, I don't think uprights are all that big. Consoles look small though, and craftmanship is a forgotten art.

Thanks.

[SingingNun]

Actually, I should saw that I've seen a few pictures with that kind of detail in the lid. I've never gotten to see one in person with this much detail, or own one for that matter.

[SingingNun]

Hey Clough,

I got an answer from the Piano Information and Prices The lady that wrote me back, Robin, sent this:

From the master list of National piano archives serial numbers. This instrument is certifiable as being made in 1927 by Kohler & Campbell. Francis Bacon Pianos have properties that appreciate in value for reasons of age, craftsmanship, artistic merit and/or historical significance.

She's almost exactly 20 years older then my Baldwin Acrosonic. Neat. I thought she would be from the 20's or 30's - I saw pictures of the leg styles.

[Banjones]

I too loved this post and can relate to it having had a similar experience last week when I realized a dream, purchasing an Ivers and Pond upright. We found each other here in Central Texas.
I learned the owner's late great grandfather purchased it new in 1890 in Minnesota and had been in the family all these years. She is now moving back to MN and didn't want to schlepp it. I can understand to a degree considering it hadn't been tuned since 1955 and must weigh at least 1000lb. 5 very strong young men will agree with me, this is an amazingly heavy instrument. Inside we were similarly surprised to find a color postcard postmarked 1913, a receipt for a child support payment from 1931 and roughly 50 navy beans. We're trying to germinate the beans but hold little hope... the piano however is tuned and sounds better and any upright I've ever heard or played. The postcard is framed and hangs in a place of honor near the piano.:)

[Clough]

Hi, Banjones!

That's cool! I really like what you have to say! :)

I've found all sorts of things inside pianos!

Thanks!

[nortone]

For what it's worth I too have a Francis Bacon upright that I got for free It has some issues but nothing that can't be fixed .My late business partner found a sight online within minutes and by using the serial numbers found an approximate date of manufacture I don't know how or where he got it . From your description I think we have the same old gal Circa 1920 I don't think the bacons can be called stencil pianos I can't stand to see old pianos treated with such disregard I found an old spinet laying on its back in the rain at the dump one day my buddy an I loaded it on the truck an took it home long story short with a little cleaning and mechanical tlc it was sold to a man who wanted it for his daughter this little piano had a sweet warm tone and was fun to play and I understand what you mean when you say you can't walk by your piano without playing it... if I just touched a key I might lose an hour of my day... an hour well spent I will always try to rescue old pianos and even if I can't make them perfect anymore there is always a home for them somewhere I would rather see a kid noodling around on an old klunky piano than playing video games lot of great players learned on these old relics... when you can make them all sound good to people listening you transcend whatever shortcomings the piano snobs may have to say about these old dino's.

[Clough]

Hi, nortone!

I love to rescue old pianos! :)

Thanks!

[txflea]

I just got a Francis Bacon piano for free. I have never seen one like it. The serial number is 13414 She is quite beautiful but it took 4 grown men to move her and they just barely did that. She's a big girl. This is my very first piano EVER. I don't even know how to play but I have a teenager and a grandson and you are never to old to learn either. She has 2 keys that stick, and one key that doesn't have a pad/striker? She has all her keys that are old and beautifully aged. I think its going to be fun to restore the wood and make her beautiful again :)