[BABRAM]

I can't afford to vote for John McCain and neither can middle and lower class America. Vote Barack Obama!

YouTube - CNN Crunches Obama and McCain Tax Plans

[tomder55]

All told I'd rather not have the tax confiscated from my paycheck. Then there would be no need for a credit.

Needkarma is right . Beyond the basic services that government has a constitutional responsibility to perform ;all other taxes above and beyond that is intended for some manipulation and social engineering .

We as a nation have decided that some of them are worthy of our going along with it. Others clearly go into law despite the people's objections. It is the fault of the electorate that we have so often been seduced by the promise of something for nothing .

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.Alexis de Tocqueville

[SkyGem]

Are there really that many Americans, who don't really understand the cryptic way this guy uses to promote even more re-distribution of wealth in our Nation?

Seriously, when he says things like "we need to capture some of this economic growth, and re-invest it where "we" know it is most needed".

Or perhaps the way he uses the term "tax credits" so freely and openly?

Re-invest it where "WE" know it is needed? Yeah, take it away from those who have earned it, and give it to those who have not.

There is no such thing anymore as a "tax credit". What we have in reality is "Government Hand-outs" at the expense of the high achievers.

The liberals can't stand the idea that anyone in our society should have more than anyone else. It is the principal philosophy of Socialism, keep everyone equal, despite the fact that more effort, should result in bigger reward.

These so called tax credits, are simply the taking of money, from the higher achievers, and paying it to those who pay no taxes to begin with.

How the hell can anyone call that a "tax credit" with a straight face?

True tax credits ended when the "earned income credit" program started. Since then, anything called a tax credit is really a lie.

Why do you suppose the left will not use the correct term for these programs?

Why can't they just be straight with the American public, and say what it is that they are really doing?

I believe that even the high ranking Liberal Democrats know that if they used the real words, and spoke the truth, that many of the very people that support them, would do an about face, once the fancy terms, and misleading statements were replaced with "we believe that no matter how hard you work, no matter how many hours you put in each day, that you do not have a right, to have more money than your neighbor, who sits on the couch, watching Oprah, while shoveling potato chips down their throat".

Nope, they can't say that, can they?

What say you?

What say I? Plenty. Let's start with the way Howard Dean and the DNC are proposing to take Hillary's delegates away at the convention and give them to Obama as per the news. Obama knows of this, surely, as the news is out. Why isn't he trying to be fair and STOP Dean and the DNC? What they are proposing to do is wrong and *one* reason why I could never support Obama. And yet, by Obama's silence on this matter, and his loyalists wanting Clinton's delegates for HIM, he is in effect, endorsing this! Is this the kind of "Change" we can believe in? Apparently! Where's the fairness and ethics in that? And yes, he does want to raise taxes for all of us though his cronies say the Republican candidate will do the same. But the difference is that the Republican candidate would not stand for as much going out of your pockets as would Obama, so go figure it out. Progunr, millions across this country are not going to vote for Obama regardless of what Hillary says. They will either support McCain or stay home and not vote. Tired of Obama's emptiness and Don't Like McCain? There is, however, a real Alternative, a movement in this country that is currently being supported by MILLIONS across these United States. It is to draft Hillary on the November ballot. To see how many are truly supporting this cause and to learn more and how you can get involved:

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[westnlas]

Looking at the current state of the economy, the deficit, unemployment, under employment, outsourcing, oil and fuel prices. It's obvious to me that something should change. I mean the present method has shown it isn't working. Companies are allowed to cut back on retiree's pensions and medical and benefits people have earned. What about them ? Maybe a new administration that isn't so obstructive and averse to new ideas is needed.

Insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different outcome.

Ever since Reagan's huge tax increase, workers have lost ground in the economy. Homes that cost a year's wages 40 years ago no cost 6 years wages. Why ? Because Corporate America has no interest in preserving America, but turning excessive profits that are placed off shore. Greed is killing the dreams of most of the people in this nation. Unfortunately, those who profit the most, put the least back.

Warren Buffett has offer a one million dollar reward to any CEO that can show they pay a greater percentage of their income in taxes than their secretary. He still has his money.

The fact that our political process is bought and sold only allows those whose unquenchable greed to further corrupt the system.

Do I think Obama is the right guy ? Probably not. Can he make a difference ? Probably not. However he is the only one in the race that even suggests change. As I said, I am not insane.

[purplewings]

Just curious how the above post by Skygem has anything to do with the question asked... :?

[Galveston1]

I understand enough of what he says to know that I won't be voting for him. Change comes in 2 flavors, good and bad. Change for the sake of change is also insane.

[blackshield]

I would never defend a person who sits on the couch eating potato chips while watching oprah. Obviously, they should be working if they are able.

My question to you progunr, is that if you were paralyzed tomorrow, and could never work another day in your life, would you not want a government program to help you?

[progunr]

I would never defend a person who sits on the couch eating potato chips while watching oprah. Obviously, they should be working if they are able.

My question to you progunr, is that if you were paralyzed tomorrow, and could never work another day in your life, would you not want a government program to help you?

You are stating an extreme situation, that has nothing to do with government entitlements or the redistribution of wealth.

Social Security Disability would cover such a situation, and the amount you draw, is in direct relation to how much you have worked and earned in your lifetime.

I addressed the use of the term "tax credits" here, and how the libs can't say what it really is and I fail to see how your "example" has anything to do with that.

[NeedKarma]

Social Security Disability would cover such a situation

Crazy communism socialist plan!

[progunr]

Crazy communism socialist plan!

WHAT?

A program that is directly tied to the individual having been employed, actually working, earning money, paying taxes, and when the amount available is based on the time worked and the taxes paid, I don't call that socialist.

Tax Credits.

That is socialism.

[NeedKarma]

Why let the government take care of it for you? Can't you sock money away on your own? Crazy nanny-state you live in.

[progunr]

Why let the government take care of it for you? Can't you sock money away on your own? Crazy nanny-state you live in.

I am socking money away, it is removed from my paycheck before I ever see it, and has been since I started working 38 years ago. If I become disabled, then I can get some of MY money back.

Your style of debate, or arguing, makes me laugh, thanks!

[blackshield]

Yes, being paralyzed is an extreme situation. However, if you become paralyzed at a young age, social security is not going to cover your expenses for the rest of your life, even if you worked full time! When I was in grade school, a friend of mine's father was paralyzed from the neck down in an auto accident. He was 38 years old. Their family NEEDED food stamps just to put dinner on the table. There are many people in life whose lives are not as fortunate as other peoples. Some people CAN'T work.

I am 33 years old. I worked full time while I put myself through school. I don't want to see anyone take advantage of the programs that the government offers, even though I know it happens. However, I still believe that people that are in NEED should have these programs available to them. After all, one day I may NEED one of them.

[NeedKarma]

I am socking money away, it is removed from my paycheck before I ever see it, and has been since I started working 38 years ago. If I become disabled, then I can get some of MY money back.

Your style of debate, or arguing, makes me laugh, thanks!

All I'm doing is parroting you guys. Now you see what we face. :)

[progunr]

All I'm doing is parroting you guys. Now you see what we face. :)

I'll tell you what I see.

I see issues about the quality of Obama's character being questioned here by conservatives.

I see issues about Obama's socialistic plans for our Nation being questioned here by conservatives.

I see issues about Obama's radical associations being questioned here by conservatives.

I see these issues, being questioned by conservatives, that the liberals can't defend.

When the liberals can't defend the issue being questioned, they tend to move to childish, personal attacks against the conservative poster.

It is an obvious pattern.

If you doubt it, since you seem to be so good at bringing up peoples previous posts, try a little side by side comparison and let me know what you see?