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    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #41

    Aug 5, 2008, 11:28 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
    If you read Rev you will find that in the end the entire world will end up being destroyed. So yes in the end God does end the world.
    This is ASSUMING that you believe the bible.
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #42

    Aug 5, 2008, 11:48 AM
    29By faith the people passed through the Red Sea[d] as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
    Are you saying you believe that water separated itself like two walls were constructed to hold it back. A dry path was created for people to walk through . And all the fish, sea life, etc. would have to pick a side and try to stay in the water since dry land would kill them.
    I'm not trying to be a smart alack, just real. I want someone to answer the hard questions and not gloss over reality with irrational scripture.
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #43

    Aug 5, 2008, 11:53 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by WVHiflyer
    Your search for the proof of God can only come from yourself. By definition, there can be no objective evidence. But subjective evidence is all around for those who believe. They see the hand of God in every molecule of the universe. From your posts, you apparently believe in God. That is enough 'evidence' for some. I read in your posts some confusion, tho, on either what god to believe in, or how your faith can manifest itself. This is something only you can decide. I urge you to study the beliefs of others, including the ideas of those who do not believe, so that you can make an informed choice. I will not try to talk you out of any particular belief system, but I urge you to study carefully.

    The Qur'an and the Bible (some of the Old and most of the New Testament) are similar in the ideas on how one should behave or treat others. The main difference as I see it is in the history and procedures for showing belief (and, of course, the divinity of Jesus). It is for you to decide which specifics are right for you.

    Full disclosure: I do not believe in any god. If you would like me to explain how this came to be, just ask.
    I totally love and agree with your answer. It was respectful and fair. You were not pushing your beliefs or agenda on anyone. I would love to know how you came to your decision to not believe in a god.
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #44

    Aug 5, 2008, 11:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by firmbeliever
    I do believe that the earth will end.
    Whether it will cease to exist after man tries to destroy it by themselves or if it will reach the end of its appointed time of existence before man completely destroys it, this I do not know.
    Or maybe man will cease to exist before the end of the world.

    I believe that as the earth was created so will it end,that is by the will of the Almighty.
    I really don't understand why it matters if the earth will end or not. What will be, will be.
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #45

    Aug 5, 2008, 12:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by blackblue
    There is NO way to prove the existence of God until you actually die and live the experience.
    I believe that the idea that there is a afterlife or that God exists can be more believable if you have a paranormal experience.


    Don't think too hard about it.You cannot understand everything while down here.
    You are so right. There is no way to "prove" this. Or "know" this. You just choose to "believe" it, or not.
    My problem is not with "god" for lack of a better word. I "believe" there is a god that exist in everyone that chooses to be open to the idea. My problem is not with the idea of a god but with the bible, and the conditional love and acceptance set up to be able to enter the gates of heaven. (ie Belief that Jesus is the son of god)

    I feel strength and love from him the same way I feel the unconditional love I have for my children. It is something that can not be proven by an outside source but is something as real inside me as the nose on my face. My good conduct and compassion for other people has nothing to do with pleasing a god to earn brownie points toward my ticket to heaven. It simply is done because my heart tells me that is the way it should be.

    Is there an afterlife? The only thing we know for sure is that no one really KNOWS. They just choose to believe or not believe. I choose NOT to believe in the literal interpretation for sure! It just goes against everything that is right.


    Imagine human forms standing around heaven waiting to be reunited with loved ones.
    Or hell being a fiery pit with a devil running around and good people burning for
    Eternity. Christians believe hell is the result of not " believing" even if a person was never even taught about Jesus or if they simply believe in what they were taught by their family or culture. Or a person that has spent their life dedicated to helping others but is not of the christian faith. This, I TOTALLY don't believe in.

    I call this CONDITIONAL love from a god that would hold this over your head. I can't believe in and trust such a god.
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #46

    Aug 5, 2008, 12:47 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by VSPrasad
    The average gender ratio in the world is 105 males for 100 females. It remained
    constant throughout the many decades of scientific research.

    Who is maintaining this ration?

    The ratio remains the same despite female infanticide in some countries. How do
    you explain this without using a para-human force?
    What is a para human force?
    hamworld05's Avatar
    hamworld05 Posts: 370, Reputation: 12
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    #47

    Aug 5, 2008, 01:01 PM
    It's some sort of paranormal force that seems to affect the average gender ratio of humans.
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #48

    Aug 5, 2008, 01:13 PM
    Do you think that such an engineering marvel could
    Have come into being through evolution alone?
    [/QUOTE]

    I think yes, it's possible. I am impressed with the brains of scientist that figure all this stuff out.

    Now, tell me how a male form appeared in the garden of eden? Where is this garden anyway? They had children. Who did their children mate with? Where did the names Adam and Eve come from? What characteristics did they have? Black, white skin, straight or curly hair? How did these features of the original two people come about? I find it very hard to believe that billions of people are the descendants of only one man and one woman. Speaking of math, it just doesn't add up!
    0rphan's Avatar
    0rphan Posts: 1,282, Reputation: 240
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    #49

    Aug 5, 2008, 02:09 PM
    cozyk... you really missed the point totally


    Science and biology has absolutely nothing to do with it... try Faith
    jessy5717's Avatar
    jessy5717 Posts: 4, Reputation: 2
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    #50

    Aug 5, 2008, 02:40 PM
    Hi, I happen to come across this message board & became quite interested in this conversation. I went to a private (along with my younger & my older brother) many years ago. Im 30 now, my father past when I was 14& that's when we left the school to move back up north, we couldn't afford where we were living after his passing. Anyway I struggled for many years asking God "why would you take my dad, he was a good husband, great father just a wonderful man" His time here was a short one, he was 40yrs old. I grew up without a male figure and blamed it on God. I am 30yrs old, a mom and a wife now & have accepted that He didn't rip him from us, it was simply his time to go, why? Well I still don't know but I can tell you this, we (people) are all here, not by accident. There is a purpose for your existence, for everyone's existence. It is up to you and only you to figure that out, that is what life is all about. The discovery of who we are and why we are here. God is like wind, you can not see it but no matter, you still know it's there, you can feel it. And that my friend is God!! Godbless you on your journey of life and Good luck!
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #51

    Aug 5, 2008, 02:54 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by 0rphan
    cozyk....you really missed the point totally


    science and biology has absolutly nothing to do with it.........try Faith
    You did not answer any of my questions. Why not?
    jessy5717's Avatar
    jessy5717 Posts: 4, Reputation: 2
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    #52

    Aug 5, 2008, 03:12 PM
    I will tell you this, as humanbeings we all question. It is natural for us to be curious and have a "need to see it to belive it" attitude toward most major things in life(small stuff too I guess) & I have found myself question everything, all the time, in everything I did. In this lifetime we all can agree on one single factor and that is that we will never truly know an answer to everything we question. And yes it all comes down to one thing and that is the "F" word, Faith!! Im sure Im not the only one that has had a very close all in my life, in a car accident, maybe test results, maybe a major surgery(or be it a family member or friend we are close with) and the second we escape that close call, we get this very warm sensation in our whole body that consumes us with this feeling and what do we say before anything else "THANK GOD". I truly believe its because on some level we all know there's something more. The bible is confusing for a lot of people to understand, I still don't but even It says there are many religions and we weren't given the right to judge, that for only the Almighty to do, but at the end of the day when we're left as confused as we were when we started, just close your eyes and listen to your heart. You'll be surprised at what you can teach yourself by just feeling what's already there. That's how I know that God is always with me, he tells me in the sunshine, in the winds, the rains, the rainbows and in the eyes of my 2 beautiful sons. Im far from a religious person and don't want to come off as such. But I just believe what I believe and it's a peace I pray everyone gets to experience in their lives, if you just stop asking why and just open your heart and just listen. Everything else will happen to follow, not by accident (its all a purpose!)
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #53

    Aug 5, 2008, 04:10 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by jessy5717
    I will tell you this, as humanbeings we all question. It is natural for us to be curious and have a "need to see it to belive it" attitude toward most major things in life(small stuff too I guess) & I have found myself question everything, all the time, in everything I did. In this lifetime we all can agree on one single factor and that is that we will never truly know an answer to everything we question. And yes it all comes down to one thing and that is the "F" word, Faith!!! Im sure Im not the only one that has had a very close all in my life, in a car accident, maybe test results, maybe a major surgery(or be it a family member or friend we are close with) and the second we escape that close call, we get this very warm sensation in our whole body that consumes us with this feeling and what do we say before anything else "THANK GOD". I truly believe its because on some level we all know theres something more. The bible is confusing for alot of people to understand, i still dont but even It says there are many religions and we werent given the right to judge, that for only the Almighty to do, but at the end of the day when we're left as confused as we were when we started, just close your eyes and listen to your heart. You'll be surprised at what you can teach yourself by just feeling whats already there. Thats how I know that God is always with me, he tells me in the sunshine, in the winds, the rains, the rainbows and in the eyes of my 2 beautiful sons. Im far from a religious person and dont wanna come off as such. But I just believe what I believe and its a peace I pray everyone gets to experience in their lives, if you just stop asking why and just open your heart and just listen. Everything else will happen to follow, not by accident (its all a purpose!)
    I agree. "Be STILL and know that I AM God. That tells me we just need to be still and quite and listen to our heart and that is where we find God. Pushing religious doctrine and trying to get others to believe that our god is THE god is counter productive. It causes strife and discord.:o
    WVHiflyer's Avatar
    WVHiflyer Posts: 384, Reputation: 34
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    #54

    Aug 5, 2008, 08:41 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by cozyk
    I totally love and agree with your answer. It was respectful and fair. You were not pushing your beliefs or agenda on anyone. I would love to know how you came to your decision to not believe in a god.
    Thanks for recognizing that. I've been accused of the opposite. But like you, I have no real problem with faith, my concerns are organized religion and its institutions, esp those which proclaim a need to adhere to a literal interpretation of the Bible - any bible.

    While I believed in God early on, mostly it was a social conscript - no one I knew didn't. But Mom let me opt out of Sunday school when I said I didn't like it. I don't remember if I told her (we prob didn't have that conversation then), but part of the reason was the recognition of inconsistencies and contradictions. (Who did Cain marry and who was in Nod? Who did Noah's family members marry to repopulate the world? Of whom is God jealous?) As I got older, the questions continued and my break with organized religion came when the minister railed against Communism in his Sunday sermon instead of sticking to religious topics (I was in my early teens). With all the many problems I saw in organized religion I became an 'agnostic.'

    The more I studied how the world and nature worked, the more irrational I deemed the concept of a god until I realized I never really did believe in such an omnipotent, onmiscient being.

    I will never scoff at faith, but I will challenge anyone who tries to claim that everyone has to believe or that everyone must follow their religious rules of conduct.

    BTW- - welcome to the conversation.

    -
    0rphan's Avatar
    0rphan Posts: 1,282, Reputation: 240
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    #55

    Aug 6, 2008, 06:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by cozyk
    You did not answer any of my questions. Why not?
    What questions!! All you've done is make statements... in the main disagreeing with why people believe.

    My reason for my belief has been posted in previous posts, I see no reason to re -iterate
    That post, my opinion remains unchanged.

    The argument still stands... you cannot dis-prove the existence of God and I cannot prove Gods existence... and quite frankly I don't feel the need to do so.
    cozyk's Avatar
    cozyk Posts: 802, Reputation: 125
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    #56

    Aug 6, 2008, 06:43 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by 0rphan
    What questions!!!! all you've done is make statements...in the main disagreeing with why people believe.

    My reason for my belief has been posted in previous posts, i see no reason to re -iterate
    that post, my opinion remains unchanged.

    The argument still stands.....you cannot dis-prove the existence of God and i cannot prove Gods existence...... and quite frankly i don't feel the need to do so.
    My bad. I was responding to so many post that I actually combined yours and another by accident. So sorry for the confusion.
    My believing that science/biology could be responsible for the nature you described is not an anti-god statement. I actually believe in God. He resides in my heart and soul. I have no desire to prove or dis-prove God to anyone and have not ask you or anyone else to prove it to me.

    Your post was asking how could someone NOT believe when you look at all these things in nature. My point is that if you are using that as an example of proof, it was not a slam dunk example.
    Peter Wilson's Avatar
    Peter Wilson Posts: 86, Reputation: 19
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    #57

    Aug 6, 2008, 07:17 AM
    Dear Morteza, it doesn't take long to see the existence of God, when you wake up in the morning and hear the birds wake with the dawn, what a wonder to behold.
    The bible says that we are fearfully and wonderfully made,
    Psalm 139:13-15

    13 For you created my inmost being;
    You knit me together in my mother's womb.

    14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    Your works are wonderful,
    I know that full well.

    15 My frame was not hidden from you
    When I was made in the secret place.
    When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,


    God has a plan for your life, but until your spirit becomes alive to God, you cannot see or even enter the Kingdom of God.
    Jesus said, You must be Born again.
    This is a real experience, if you are obedient to the Word of God and turn from your sin, (we are all sinners in need of a Saviour) accept Jesus as your sacrifice from sin, (we are saved by the Grace of God, not by our own works).
    Ask God to fill you with His Holy Spirit, and He will give you, not only power over sin, but a new tongue to praise Him with.
    Then get baptised by full immersion, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, to wash away your sins.
    If you can get a Bible, read Mark 16. John 3. Ephesians 1-2, Romans, all of it, and James.
    Then go back and read the whole New Testament.
    Jesus died for you too, but then He rose from the dead so that you could receive eternal life.
    Not only for you, but to any-one that would call on His name.
    Just ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you, and send some-one to tell you more.
    I know that you may have a mistrust of Christians for what has been done in the name of Christianity, but don't let evil men deny you from the inheritance God has got planned for you.
    May the peace and love of the Lord Jesus Christ rest upon your soul.
    Peter. :)
    shanom's Avatar
    shanom Posts: 3, Reputation: 1
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    #58

    Aug 12, 2008, 08:25 PM
    I can't prove anything and niether can anybody about this but just look at the world! Someone had to do it!
    WVHiflyer's Avatar
    WVHiflyer Posts: 384, Reputation: 34
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    #59

    Aug 12, 2008, 08:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by shanom
    I can't prove anything and niether can anybody about this but just look at the world! someone had to do it!
    Someone had to do it?! Why? No reason at all why anyone or anything had to be consciously working to create anything you see.

    I look at the world and sky and wonder at nature. You look and see something's handiwork. I like my view better. More wonder in it.
    Abyss777's Avatar
    Abyss777 Posts: 16, Reputation: 2
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    #60

    Aug 14, 2008, 01:01 AM
    I believe in faith. It brings mankind together. Religion, on the other hand, appears to separate man through difference in beliefs. If man is made in Gods image I would fear to meet a God with the capacities of hate and ego and greed. Further I don't accept the word of God through any man. Man is subject to corruption and the power of influencing others always leads to corruption. If God wanted to speak to me it seems unlikely he would use a middlman that is subject to the temptations power implies. As yet I've had no epiphanies or lightning bolts appear in my vicinity. I think the more likely understanding is that God is a universal entity made up of everything in the universe and existing eternally. I'm sure to such a being, the short time man has existed and the fact that he operates just like a virus in that he wastes resources until they are gone and then moves to a new area of resource, would appear to such a Being as a zit on the face of a tiny backwoods planet and would heal itself by its own destruction quicker than it would take for God to do anything about it. Therefore the synopsis is: the universe is healthy except for one small outbreak that will cure itself through natural extinction. The dinosaurs existed longer than we have.

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