[arcura]

:confused:
Is Jesus Christ God?
Investigate these interesting claims... The earliest followers of Jesus all seemed pretty convinced that Jesus was fully God in human form.
Paul said, "He is the image of the invisible God...in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell."
John said that Jesus created the world.
Peter said, "Every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." But what did Jesus say about himself?
Did he ever identify himself as God? According to the Bible... absolutely! Below are some of his statements made while on earth, in their context. Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God: The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)
Is Jesus God? How he described himself: Jesus therefore said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world." They said therefore to Him, "Lord, evermore give us this bread." Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." (John 6:32-35)
Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life." The Pharisees therefore said to Him, "You are bearing witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true." Jesus answered and said to them, "Even if I bear witness of Myself, My witness is true; for I know where I came from, and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from, or where I am going." (John 8:12-14)
Jesus therefore said to them again, "Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." (John 10:7-11)
Martha therefore said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You." Jesus said to her, "Your brother shall rise again." Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world." (John 11:21-27)
Is Jesus God? What he said he was sent here to do: But Jesus called them to Himself, and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. It is not so among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant, and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)
For He was teaching His disciples and telling them, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill Him; and when He has been killed, He will rise three days later." But they did not understand this statement, and they were afraid to ask Him. (Mark 9:31-32)
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:16-18)
"All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40)
Do you believe what the bibles says about Jesus being God?:confused:

[mrs.pennell]

You ask two different questions in your post. The first question is did Jesus call himself God. Are you referring to the historical Jesus or the Christian Jesus? Scholars have compared the Gospels of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) to determine what plausibly may have been said by Jesus and what the church attributes to him. According to the scholars, Jesus would not have called himself God or the Son of God. For more information on this and the historical Jesus you can go to this website:

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/jesussem.html

Or Google THE JESUS SEMINAR. The Jesus Seminar is the group of scholars that did the research to ascertain what could be attributed to Jesus and what is likely not his words. They believe that only 20% of Jesus' sayings in the Gospel are actually his words.

Your second question is "Do you believe what the bible says about Jesus being God?" That is a question of faith. True christians would say yes, they believe what the bible says about Jesus being God.

I will say that the New Testament was written by several different authors, very few of which were alive during the life and times of Jesus. Much of the gospels were actually written a couple of hundred years after Jesus. They reflect the beliefs of the Christian church at the time.

[31pumpkin]

Yes, I see that reference, but aren't these "authors" just Scholars & Theorists?

My preference of credible sources comes from Theologians with several degrees in Theology.

[DrJ]

How does the Bible define God? We hear the terms "Father" and "Lord" and others... but what is the clearest definition? What are YOUR definitions of God? I think most of the confusion of God comes in what or who we believe God is. Obviously, we cannot clearly define Him but what are your thoughts?

Does Jesus ever say that He is God? Well, he DOES say that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. That sounds like a pretty clear definition of God to me.

[mrs.pennell]

Does Jesus ever say that He is God? Well, he DOES say that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. That sounds like a pretty clear definition of God to me.

Actually, that is one of the quotes that The Jesus Seminar has said that Jesus probably did not say.

The Jesus seminar, by the way, is composed of men and women who do have degrees, doctorates in Theology and Religion.

This is a question that will be answered differently on who you ask. True Christian believers do not question the Bible. Those of us who have studied it from an outside perspective, do not take everything to be "Gospel" as it were. Much of my concentration in my religious studies degree focused on Jesus and his teachings. We could spend four years discussing this issue but it will never be "answered" on this forum or any other. It is a matter of religious beliefs versus history.

Beyond all that... regardless of whether Jesus himself said He was the Son of God or not doesn't mean he wasn't. Nor does it mean he was. Either way didn't His message reach the people?

[arcura]

mrs.pennell,
Of course you are welcome to believe what the Jesus Seminar of self proclaimed experts have to say.
But the rational points are that the Historical Jesus and the biblical Jesus is the same person.
1. There is no proof that the books that were complied into what became the volume we call the Holy Bible wrote any of them long after Jesus rose from the grave.
2. There is no way it can be proven that those who claimed to be witness of Jesus’ activities did not do so.
3. Those who attempt to make such wild assumptions are Johnny come very latelys who are making a name for themselves through sensationalism not accuracy. There is no way they can be accurate or prove it. All they have is scholarly result arrived at based on their belief that the Jesus Christ in the bible is not the Son of God that the authors testified to in those many books which were gathered together to form the Bible.
4. Picture this in your mind. Let’s say that you and several others who are all very interested in a certain subject. Your group gathers from all over the know world all the writings available on that subject. Then you all sit down and spend years studying what was gathered to determine what was authentic and that which could not be. Then you compile all those authenticated works into a book so that others will not need to go through the great effort your group did. All that data in each entry in your new book confirms the other entries. In short they each are a proof of each other while each one offers some additional information that other entries did not provide.
5. The Bible is such a book. There are many volumes of such type efforts concerning various fields or subjects of study that are readily accept because of the confirmation each entry provides for the others. But when come to the holy Bible those that don’t want to believe what is says disregard the fact that the Bible does prove itself far more that the nay sayers can absolutely prove it does not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
:) :) :)

[mrs.pennell]

Indeed we are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs. :D

[arcura]

Yes but that did not answer the question.
As the bible records...
Did Jesus say he was God?
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[fredg]

HI,
John 3:16.
"For God so loveth the world, that He gave His only Begotten Son....."
Jesus is the Son of God; not God.

[arcura]

Gredj,
You are hanging you hat on just a verse or two.
When studying the entire Bible the fact that Jesus is both the Son of God and God the Son becomes obvious to the open minded.
It's all there and much more than the 5 I mentioned above.
But just those 5 overturns your statement.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[DrJ]

According the Bible, God is the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. If you separate The Father and The Son, then you must separate The Holy Spirit as well. You cannot say that The Holy Spirit is God without admitting that Jesus, The Son, is also God.

[31pumpkin]

You are wise.

As Christians we believe in the Holy Trinity. Now, Jesus never said he was God.

God is God. The Alpha and The Omega. However, in the Trinity we see that God sent His only begotten Son, Jesus, to die for our sins.

Furthermore, in Matthew 28:16-20, The Great Commission says:

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw Him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

There"s more for clarification. Such as in Revelation 12.


M'gosh, I love Bible study!

[Starman]

According the the Bible, God is the The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. If you seperate The Father and The Son, then you must seperate The Holy Spirit as well. You cannot say that The Holy Spirit is God without admitting that Jesus, The Son, is also God.

Here are some scriptures indicating the opposite.
Some describe Jesus as learning, being exalted to a superior position, praying to God for help, referring to God as his God, receiving revelations from God, Christians admitting that the Father is the only true God, Jesus refusing to be called as good as God, Jesus admitting that his teachings were not his but were God's, Jesus admitting he didn't know the time of the end just like the angels didn't know, Jesus repeatedly asking God for help.

"For us there is one God, the Father, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 8:6, JB)

Jesus said, "You, the only true God." (John 17:3)

"Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (Mark 10:18, JB)

"The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing." (John 5:19


"What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me." (John 7:16)


"thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus."—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition.


"This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved." (Matthew 3:16, 17)


"As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father," that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB)


"Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place." (Luke 22:42)


"Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit." (Luke 23:46)


"But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Mark 13:32, RS, Catholic edition)


Hebrews 5:8 that Jesus "learned obedience from the things he suffered."
:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him." (Revelation 1:1, RS, Catholic edition)


Paul said: "God exalted him to a superior position." (Philippians 2:9)
"the head of the Christ is God" in the same way that "the head of every man is the Christ." (1 Corinthians 11:3)

'New Testament research has been leading an increasing number of scholars to the conclusion that Jesus certainly never believed himself to be God.' —Bulletin of the John Rylands Library

[arcura]

First of all such scholars are ignoring the fact that Jesus said that he was God as in the Scripture passages offered.
Secondly one must keep in mind that Jesus was both and man and God.
There for, regarding the time and situation, Jesus did as his nature indicated or was called for.
As a man He prayed to the Father. As God the Son he performed miracles and taught us about what God and heaven were like. He told us things that only God knew.
In that regard he was the image of the invisible God, just as Scripture tells us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[31pumpkin]

I'm not sure what you are saying there Acura:

But, I know the scholars fall short if they are not also Ministers.

[DrJ]

God is the Holy Trinity. God is the Father. God is the Son. God is the Holy Spirit. Jesus was the human incarnation of God. Just as we all are. God IS us and God is IN us. Jesus was the Christ, the Savior. He was the Son... just as we are all the Sons of God. We are all created from God and therefore, we are all God.

A sand castle is a sand castle. However, it is created entirely from sand. Therefore, a sand castle IS sand.

[31pumpkin]

DrJizzle:
You remembered my post!

I correct myself on that saying. It was a while ago since a psych teacher said it.

Neurotics build Castles, Whereas Psychotics live in them. No need to analyze it
Any further. " sand" was mistakenly remembered by me.

I had a very good Pastor, where I moved from in Ft. Lauderdale.

He was gifted, if you know what I mean.

One correction I think to your post,

We, meaning Believers, are not the Sons (or Daughters)of God. We are the
Children of God. Notice the capital letter on the son and daughter words above? It makes the sentence a negative statement.

Jesus was the ONLY Son of God. Notice the capital? That is the Spirit of the Lord. And, we have a Father in Heaven.

This is a start for you. Don't worry. It takes time to mature in the Holy Spirit.

As Born again Christians. Then next I want you to read the New Testament.

I'm not saying you haven't) Start from Matthew and look for all that is said regarding the Spirit. The Spirit of the Lord and such. Look for the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Faithful men and women can be given these gifts if they keep reading and going to church to" hear the Word of the Lord".I am gifted myself!
You read about the gifts for now. O.k?
Also-
Words are seeds. They can be very good! Your friend in Christ. Me

Oh! And yes difinetly we are NOT ALL God. Be sure to get that one ! Now relax...

[arcura]

DrJizzle,
The basic definition of God it that God is perfect in all His attributes.
On top of that he is all powerful, all wise, all understanding, all present, all knowing plus infinite and eternal!!
If you claim that we mortals all are God then you must do so by proving we fit that description.
It will be interesting to see what you come up with IF you attempt that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred:) :) :)

[31pumpkin]

Better to try a little Rudyard Kipling (IF)!!

[arcura]

31pumpkin,
And your point is??
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)