[tomder55]

Here's how it goes . Increased demand without increased supplies drives up prices.

[excon]

here's how it goes . increased demand without increased supplies drives up prices.

Hello again, tom:

And, the speculators fit in where?

excon

[tomder55]

Speculators are looking to put their money where it will make the greatest return .Those who bet on corn based on our poor choices we've made are doing real well. Those who bet on real estate are not .Part of the reason I am not in the commodities markets is because they frequently rely on bad news . When there is a flood on the Mississippi River then those who bet on corn are getting an even bigger return because the supply of the corn gets hammered . That's the way the commodities market has always worked.

Now your gold is a different issue . That is pretty much a fixed inventory. If there was suddenly a new gold find your gold would drop like a rock .So yes ; the precious metals act in the market pretty much the way you describe it in that the fluctuation is not only on the demand side ,but on the currency supply.

But what you are going to see is that demand on the market for gold is going to drop as the prices rise. We don't eat it or use it to fuel our economy. It is a luxury we can do without . My bet is you have seen the peak of the bubble in gold.

[excon]

We don't eat it or use it to fuel our economy. It is a luxury we can do without .

Hello again, tom:

You're right... But, gold is money. I know, your government wants you to think otherwise, and YOU do. But, the world doesn't. It KNOWS gold is money. It's ALWAYS been money, and it ALWAYS will be money.

When your paper dollar isn't worth what toilet paper is, you can use your gold coins to buy food and fuel.. At least I'll be able to do that (Mag too). I don't know about you.

excon

[tomder55]

If that ever happens you will need your gold to buy protection forget about food and fuel .

[tomder55]

More speculators folly

Today the market took a dive and the price of oil jumped... why ?

Well earlier this month the Israeli's conducted war games that were said to be practice runs for a possible attack of Iran. . Those games happened on June 5 and 6 . At the tme of the games the market took a huge hit... about 400 pt.s and oil jumped $15/bb .

Today the NY Slimes ran a rehash story about the games with some new details .
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/wa...hp&oref=slogin

So traders today reacted to rehashed and retread old news. Is that rational ? That is why I take a dim view of the commodities markets.

[magprob]

speculators are looking to put their money where it will make the greatest return .Those who bet on corn based on our poor choices we've made are doing real well. Those who bet on real estate are not .Part of the reason I am not in the commodities markets is because they frequently rely on bad news . When there is a flood on the Mississippi River then those who bet on corn are getting an even bigger return because the supply of the corn gets hammered . That's the way the commodities market has always worked.

Now your gold is a different issue . That is pretty much a fixed inventory. If there was suddenly a new gold find your gold would drop like a rock .So yes ; the precious metals act in the market pretty much the way you describe it in that the fluctuation is not only on the demand side ,but on the currency supply.

But what you are going to see is that demand on the market for gold is going to drop as the prices rise. We don't eat it or use it to fuel our economy. It is a luxury we can do without . My bet is you have seen the peak of the bubble in gold.

COWPUCKY!

http://commerce.senate.gov/public/_f...Testimony0.pdf

[imURgiRL]

The soaring oil prices are affecting the costs of everything from food to gas. There are also significant issues on local and global environmental impact. While there are many issues, we need to look at our next leader and determine which will have the best course of action going forward….. I recently watch the two video in Pollclash about this issue, Obama and McCain talk about this…

[magprob]

The soaring oil prices are affecting the costs of everything from food to gas. There are also significant issues on local and global environmental impact. While there are many issues, we need to look at our next leader and determine which will have the best course of action going forward…..I recently watch the two video in Pollclash about this issue, Obama and McCain talk about this…

The sagging value of the dollar first affected the price of oil, food and everything else. The oil commodity markets are furthering the high prices of oil as the speculators by larger blocks of futures. The "Enron" loophole in the commodity markets has stripped any real control over the speculators to push the prices up, up and away.
The Federal Reserve started the problem, in conjunction with or governments out of control spending, by printing much too much worthless cash.
Wait, I take that back, the dollar ins't really worthless, it is backed by oil, oil we don't own.
The dollar is, or was, the exclusive World Reserve Currency to buy oil with. If you need oil, you need a reserve of dollars to buy it with.
So the price of oil, as with the price of gold, is directly affected by the price of a dollar. If the value of a dollar goes down, the price of real goods must go up to compensate for the drop in the dollar.
Now, since the price of oil is so high, it is, as you state, adding a negative affect upon the prices of all goods and services also. I equate it to a tornado that is picking up more and more power, a tornado that only gets bigger and cannot be stopped.

[tomder55]

so world supplies ,with growing economies in former 3rd world countries ,have nothing to do with the price? I'll buy some of your argument about the dollar value .But that is not the beginning and end of the problem. If the dollar went back to being the strongest currency in the world it would only partly mitigate the fact that the demand for energy grows faster than it can be supplied.

[magprob]

Yes Tom, Refining capabilities, or lack there of, play a huge role in it. But as we saw in the 70's, it is a fabricated role. Fabricated by Opec to fabricate more dollars.
I agree completely with you Tom, after all, there is a huge addition of Escalades on the Chinese hiways that need to be fed.

[smearcase]

I am not interested in making this a political discussion. I just would like to know if there are 30 million acres of off-shore leases available to oil companies, that have been available, and if so why no production from those areas.


SEN. BIDEN: We're not trying to get Saudi to drill more, we're trying to get them to pump more of what they're drilling. They're not pumping what they could, number one. This is a gift, a gift to the oil companies by John McCain. They have now leased 41 million acres of offshore leases. They're only pumping in 10.2 million of those acres. Seventy-nine percent of all the offshore oil available off the coast of Florida, into the Gulf of Mexico, the Atlantic Coast, the Pacific Coast, lies within those acres that they now have. Why are they not pumping? Why are they not doing this? Why are they not pursuing what's estimated to be a total of 70--54 billion barrels of oil at their disposal right now if they pump? Why are these greedy fellows deciding they want to go beyond that? It's because they want to get it in before George Bush leaves the presidency. It's because they're not pumping the oil to keep the price up. They are not even drilling. So here you have 30 million leased acres they have right now that possesses 79 percent of all the offshore, and they're not drilling. And John says they need more? And it would take 10 years for it to come online.

[tomder55]

Biden is being disengenuos . There has been a moratorium on new drilling off shore by Congressional and Executive order since 1981. Yeah there are some leases they are sitting on that they are banned from drilling on. As for the charge about the absence of drilling in Federal lands leased by oil companies... In truth, these areas are under active exploration that may lead to drilling. Drilling, of course, is the last step in oil production. I would've thought that Biden would know that but evidently he thinks you drill first and explore later ?

As for refineries ;In 1981, the US had 324 refineries. Today, there are just 132 oil refineries and all of them are maxed out giving each state it's desired blend of gasoline ,octane ,and ethanol mix. Even that isn't standardized.

[magprob]

Yea, you drill it, case it, Stem and pump it, then start pump jack and hope something comes out. Same way you would drill your fresh water well.

[tomder55]

Lol or Jed Clampet shooting at some game uncaps a near surface black gold bonanza

[magprob]

OPEC sells oil for $140.00 a barrel.
OPEC nations buy U.S. grain at $7.00 a bushel.
Solution: Sell grain for $140.00 a bushel.
Can't buy it? Tough! Eat your oil!

[tomder55]

I can't give you a rating but that is a superb idea!!

[Trandy]

OPEC sells oil for $140.00 a barrel.
OPEC nations buy U.S. grain at $7.00 a bushel.
Solution: Sell grain for $140.00 a bushel.
Can't buy it? Tough! Eat your oil!

Yay!! A solution,, magprob for President!!

[magprob]

yay!!! a solution,,,,,magprob for President!!!

Ron Paul for President.