[LTheobald]

Here's an interesting one. This thread has got me thinking about legal issues. Do we have a lawyer on this site anyway?

What I'm curious is - what happens (and I admit this is a loooooong shot) we inadventantly tell somebody how to obtain something illegally. In the case of the mention thread, music but it could be anything like:

- How to remove a rusted lock on something
- Good tips for getting into a house when you lock yourself out

The kind of thing that is probably perfectly legitimate but could also be taken the other way and used for illegal purposes. The person we aided then gets caught and taken to court. His defence is simply - "I was lead to believe by AMHD that this was perfectly OK".

Is this site in anyway liable for his actions? Is there something in the sign up agreement along these lines (and you think I would have checked that before writing all this ;) )?

[ScottGem]

Good questions, especially in light of the proposed Board Expert group.

I just did a quick scan through the FAQs and rules and didn't see any disclaimer about caveat emptor. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't believe that AMHD would take on any responsibility about any advice given unless they do something to certify an expert. On the other hand a specific person might be held responsible for bad advice if it can be shown that the advice was given with knowledge of its being bad. A lawyer would probably have to obtain a court order showing the advice was bad to serve on AMHD before they would give up personal info.

[speedball1]

I looked also Scotty and didn't find a disclaimer. I'm with everyone else. I think it's protection that's needed on every Q&A site. Here's AllExperts.

Disclaimer


By your use of the service, you agree to the following:
To indemnify and hold harmless Allexperts.com, its owners and its volunteers for any liability arising from any death, injury, or decapitation, dismemberment or defenestration to you and to third parties resulting from the use of this service, as well as for any loss or damage to property to you or to third parties resulting from any use of our service, including but not limited to information you obtain by asking questions, reading previously asked questions or FAQs, using our message boards, or reading our articles. Such indemnity and hold harmless agreement is in addition to any other indemnity and hold harmless agreement you may agree to when using specific sections of our site. You also acknowledge by using this service that you understand that our volunteers have varying levels of expertise and haven't been certified as "experts" (or anything else) by us in any professional way. Many of them are professionals in their own right, but Allexperts has not undertaken to verify the credentials or abilities of any of our volunteers

It would be wise for Admin and mods to look into. This is a oversite that could possibly bring this site down. But then again I'm just a plumber and not a lawyer. Cheers, tom

[ScottGem]

WOW!! If I actually read that. I'd be afraid to post. :D That actually sent me reaching for the dictionary, defenestration stumped me. It means; throwing of a person or thing out of a window. I guess they think someone will take seriously the claim; I'm gonna throw this thing out the window if I can't get it to work. :D

Seriously, I've heard varying things about the value in court of disclaimers. But its clear it would be better to have one then not to.

So maybe some expert in the law forums will help them write one. How but wait, maybe that person isn't really a lawyer so if they follow his advice would it hold up? ;) Sounds like a Catch-22 to me.

Scott<>

[RickJ]

Admin is re-working the rules and User Agreement - and this subject has come up.

Pending adding a formal one, we've added Announcements to the legal and medical boards... but granted, something to cover the entire site would probably be best - that is, if it's necessary at all.

Yes, we have 2 attorneys posting here; I'll point this thread out to admin - and PM the attorneys to give their input too.

[RickJ]

PS: Keep your eye on FAQ for a disclaimer that admin's going to add. I Just learned of it.

[LisaB4657]

At Rick's request I have reviewed this thread and agree with the concerns. Here is a simple disclaimer that I've seen at other Q&A sites. I think it does the job neatly without listing the frightening possibilities offered by the disclaimer at allexperts.com:

DISCLAIMER - AskMeHelpDesk is not responsible for, and you may not rely upon, the accuracy of any information or advice posted here. This forum is provided for educational and entertainment purposes only. You should consult with an attorney prior to acting on any information found here.

Comments?

[RickJ]

I like it: short and sweet.

Do you think it should include members? i.e. "Neither AMHD nor it's members are responsible for..." ?

[fredg]

Hi,
In regards to "tips for getting into the house when you lock yourself out", or any other issues being possible liable, how about National TV News Networks telling millions of people "how to"; "airports with the most security", "problems at this airport with security", "how to start your car without keys", when it comes to Terrorism and other issues?
CNN reports "where" and "how" all day long.
Just wondering if Network Reporters, or the Network itself, have to sign any "release me" from responsibility forms.
As far as a Lawyer being on this site, unless they are retired, all of them I know have too much to do already!

[ScottGem]

There have been many people who have complained about irresponsible news reporting. Freedom of the press notwithstanding, the press still has a responsibility towards the news. Such pieces as Fred describes should be tempered by reason. However, as long as the information reported is factual and accurate, I don't believe the press is liable.

But this site does NOT report news. The comparison is not appropriate. This site claims to provide a service by bringing together questioners and answerers. Lisa's line about "This forum is provided for educational and entertainment purposes only." is a key piece of it.

[fredg]

Hi,
One definition of "news" is that it is anything that one did not know before. "News" is found here at this site, as well as TV programs and News programs.
On local TV news last night, report was about a man who started up his pickup truck in front of his house, to let it warm up. He locked the doors, went back into the house.
He came out, to go to work, and his truck had been stolen.
Tonight, the newspersons said they would go into the "how" someone enters a vehicle, locked and running, to get access to the inside. This reporting may or may not be factual and accurate, and may or may not be successful on any type of vehicle.
This is "educational". It is telling someone how to enter a locked vehicle. Telling someone this on a TV show, is the same principle as typing it on some website, in public, where others can view it. What one does with the information is up to them.
It is an appropriate comparison here, in this thread, when considering how or what to post as a "releasing liability" statement. It's just another type of media.
ScottGem said this site does not "report news". I really disagree with that, because many, many answers are news to those who read those answers. Other posts are from "news" papers, asking for comments about the particular subject read elsewhere. To those of us who didn't know the "news" in the first place, it is now "news" to us.
Any statement used on this site, in regards to liability, should really be written by a Professional; a Lawyer. Or, at least get the approval of a Lawyer before publishing it.

[ScottGem]

No Fred, its NOT a valid comparison. In my opinion, it shows a lack of understanding of concepts of the press and news and this site. Merriam Webster defines News as:
1: a report of recent events; 2 a : material reported in a newspaper or news periodical or on a newscast b : matter that is newsworthy

What we give here is answers. While those answers may be new to the asker, they are generally not new. They are information learned from research and experience. So they are not NEWS.

What you seem to be doing is saying that News sites are sometimes educational and we are educational ergo we are News. But that is not good logic and the comparison doesn't fly.

The only place I agree with you, since you are actually agreeing with a statement I made earlier, is that any disclaimer should be reviewed by someone with a law degree. But to classify us as a News site is absolutely ridiculous.

Scott<>

[fredg]

Hi,
"may be new to the asker, they are generally not new."

It's fun playing with words!
The word "news" comes from the root word "new". So "news" is plural for "new"; meaning many "new".
If something is "new" to askers, then it's "news".

Where they learn it, if online, is then called a "news" site.
If from a TV show, any show, it's then called a "news" TV show.
If from a person, they are then called a "newsperson".
Isn't this fun?

[ScottGem]

Fred,
Don't try playing semantics with me, you will lose. As I showed in the Merriam Webster definition, the primary definition is a "report of recent events". Yes, a secondary definition involves info that is new to a person. But, when you play semantics, you have to include context, context can refine the meaning of words. In the context you originally used it, News referred to the Press, or News Media. Entities whose main business is the reporting of current events. This site does NOT fit into that context. We fall more into an entertainment category, but clearly we are not news media. So any comparison with News media is not appropriate.

[speedball1]

I agree with Scottgem,
BY calling this site a news site Fred is not only playing with words he's giving this site a definition it doesn't warrant. By the same token I disagree with Scott's definition, " We fall more into an entertainment category."
I think we fall into more of a "consultant category".
I don't believe there's anybody that would use the term "entertainment" when they're pulling a toilet or snaking out a sewer. We give advice based on our knowledge and experience. Askers don't come to this site to be "entertained", they come here to be helped and that's consulting in my book.
Fred, enough with the word games. You're just attempting to "tweek" Scotts nose. Quit it! Let's all play nice!
Regards, Tom

[ScottGem]

I don't disagree with you Tom, But you have to remember there is more to this site then technical areas that are just pure Q&A. Forums like the psychic ones, are really more entertainment then anything else. People like to debate and that comes under entertainment also. But I would call the tech areas more of a helpdesk then consultant.

As for Fred "tweeking". That may be, but his arguments don't hold water, so who is getting tweeked?

Scott<>

[speedball1]

Scotty,
Now who'se playing with sematics? Lets see if this is a enterainment, or a consulting site. I guess the movie, pychic, or trivial questions could be termed entertainment but when someone asks you a computer question do they do it for entertainment? How about Labman over in Dogs or TK Russel in Electrical or for that matter Appliguy over in appliances? So if you can't call it consulting you surely can't call it entertainment. I don't think people come to a Q & A site for entertainment there's chat rooms for that. People come here for information. Perhaps that information may be entertaining but their primary thrust is information.

"I would call the tech areas more of a helpdesk then consultant."
No Scotty, When I worked at my company and laid out drainage and venting plans the way I do here my company charged a , (you guessed it) a consulting fee. Computer techs charge a fee for analyzing your computer and advising a repair. When you have a dialog with a asker about a problem and give them advice about problem it's called, ( Durn! Ya guessed it again) consulting. As my back up source just take a run up to the legal category and ask the lawyer what she she calls talking to and advising a client.

As far as Fred goes, You said,"As for Fred "tweeking". That may be, but his arguments don't hold water, so who is getting tweeked?"

I don't know Scotty, but you seem to be awfully bothered by this dude.
Cheers, Tom

[ScottGem]

Tom,
The fact is that there are so many different elements of a site like this, it defies being pigeonholed into just one category. One can say what it isn't, but its hard to put a finger on what it is. It just may be in a class by itself as Q&A.

As to my being bothered; I'm bothered by inaccuracy, I'm bothered by hypocrisy, I'm bothered by pandering and I'm bothered by untruths. When I see people posting such things I'm compelled to speak out against them. That may be a flaw in my nature but I accept it.

Scott<>

[speedball1]

" It just may be in a class by itself as Q&A."
I'll buy that Scotty. Regards, tom

[bskinner57]

This question can sure make you stop and think.. Hope someone can come up with the proper answer.