Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    wyohio1's Avatar
    wyohio1 Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    Apr 24, 2008, 09:03 PM
    Home Owner's Association
    In November of 2006, our HOA Board got a quorum of signatures on a petition, to change the CC&Rs to limit the number of Renters. Since this was done secretly, and not all HOA members approved of the move, in the 2007 HOA meeting, the subject was brought up and modified by a quorum of members.

    Now we are advised that our votes did not count because of the new Civil Code law, effective July 2006, requiring all votes to be by Secret Ballot. We are now being asked to re-vote to modify the CC&Rs. However, it appears to me that the November 2006 modification of the CC&Rs should be thrown out, because they were not done by Secret Ballot, as required in July of 2006. It seems strange to amend an illegal rule...
    JudyKayTee's Avatar
    JudyKayTee Posts: 46,503, Reputation: 4600
    Uber Member
     
    #2

    Apr 25, 2008, 05:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by wyohio1
    In November of 2006, our HOA Board got a quorum of signatures on a petition, to change the CC&Rs to limit the number of Renters. Since this was done secretly, and not all HOA members approved of the move, in the 2007 HOA meeting, the subject was brought up and modified by a quorum of members.

    Now we are advised that our votes did not count because of the new Civil Code law, effective July 2006, requiring all votes to be by Secret Ballot. We are now being asked to re-vote to modify the CC&Rs. However, it appears to me that the November 2006 modification of the CC&Rs should be thrown out, because they were not done by Secret Ballot, as required in July of 2006. It seems strange to amend an illegal rule...

    What is your question or did I miss it?
    smearcase's Avatar
    smearcase Posts: 2,392, Reputation: 316
    Ultra Member
     
    #3

    Apr 25, 2008, 07:52 AM
    I am quite sure these types of actions are very much affected by state law and the laws are different in every state.
    I was on the board of an HOA when it was first initiated in West Virginia. Our covenants had to be approved and signed off by a judge. The main thing I remember is that all covenants have to comply with the constitution of the US. In other words, to be absurd you couldn't write a covenant saying no guns will be allowed in the HOA jurisdiction, cause the constitution daid otherwise. Also, we couldn't do anything significant without a vote by all members. We could never do any real voting because we couldn't get a quorum to come to the meetings, so we couldn't vote. We did one or two votes by mail and barely made it.
    Some board members felt that voting should be conducted by the members that showed up (say 30 out of 100), then if 16 members voted one way or another, it was decided. Our attorney told us if we did that and it was contested by other member(s) we needed to find another lawyer because he couldn't defend it in court.
    If there is a legal basis to ban renters in your state or county (affecting all property owners in and out of the development), maybe you have a shot (a real big maybe) but the HOA can't enact law.
    Especially now, with the housing market in most area, stopping someone from renting out their house is a very serious matter. If they have put their house for sale. And moved bfore it was sold, into a more expensive house like I did (but I got lucky and sold mine before it drained me too badly) and not be able to get any income from former house could mean bankruptcy and foreclosure are right around the corner. I think you are very seriously infringing upon a property owners rights, but I am not a lawyer and if your local laws support your HOA, and you have the required votes by an acceptable method, its up to the HOA.
    Are your Board members protected from personal lawsuits? WV law provided that protection because we were an incorporated entity. If I was on your board I would make damned sure about that before I cast a vote on this one. Your insurance might do it.
    ballengerb1's Avatar
    ballengerb1 Posts: 27,378, Reputation: 2280
    Home Repair & Remodeling Expert
     
    #4

    Apr 25, 2008, 08:08 AM
    I too sit on a HOA Board, I got elected because I was toyally upset with the way the old board behaved. Once on board I quickly found how difficult it is to manage an association. Nuts and angry people come out of the woodwork, threaten us like we are the enemy forgeting that each one of us is one of them, a home owner. HOA do illegal acts all of the time, sometimes out of ignorance of the law. If you think your board is acting in an illegal manner you need a good legal opinion and advice, I did say good didn't I?
    wyohio1's Avatar
    wyohio1 Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #5

    Apr 25, 2008, 08:33 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
    What is your question or did I miss it?
    Am I wrong in saying the original change to the CC&Rs should be thrown out, since it was done without a Secret Ballot, rather than trying to raise another quorum to amend the illegal change?
    smearcase's Avatar
    smearcase Posts: 2,392, Reputation: 316
    Ultra Member
     
    #6

    Apr 25, 2008, 08:35 AM
    Most HOA's in WV are formed because there are thousands of miles of roads in WV owned and maintained by the property owners that live along those roads. (terrible way to do business). We were looking at having to collect about $ 2,500 from each owner to rebuild the roads in the development. Luckily, the politics and stars were aligned and the state took over the roads (there are no county roads in WV). Then we put in a few street lights just to light dangerous curves and conditions on the roads. Shortly thereafter they started vandalizing the presidents property, until he finally moved out. It is a thankless, frustrating job, and people don't realize that the goal is to protect everyone's property value. We looked at about 500 houses (from the outside) in PA, W. MD and WV, before we moved from WV to PA. If we had to go past junked up, unkempt properties to get to the advertised house, we just turned around before we got to it. In WV, we usually stopped at the first mud puddle more than 12 feet in diameter, because we knew that road was going to become our property to keep up if we bought in that area. There are development roads in WV that you can't get to even with 4 wd in the summer! The biggest HOA I know of is in Howard County MD (The Columbia Assn). They take residents to court by the hundreds. According to 60 minutes, HOA's in the US even take people's houses for non-payment of dues. People complain about government, but trying to replace government with HOA's doesn't work well either. But the subject of maintaining property values is not something government handles very well. People have to abandon the idea that all HOA's are out to infringe on the owner's rights. But that is always a possibility with the wrong people as ballenger noted.
    smearcase's Avatar
    smearcase Posts: 2,392, Reputation: 316
    Ultra Member
     
    #7

    Apr 25, 2008, 08:49 AM
    That is impossible to answer without knowing the laws in your state, county etc.

    Considering the importance of your issue (disalowing renters) and I would think the probability of lawsuit(s) your are shooting in the dark without a good lawyer and I hope you have a good one or can find a good one because we had trouble finding any that would even consider representing us.

    I apologize for the negativity, but HOA members are very critical of their dues going to lawyers. Some of them feel that their own money is being used to hire a lwayer to come after them!

    We had a fairly competent lawyer who explained at a meeting exactly what we were trying to do and I think an estimate of the cost, and answered quite a few questions. That meeting gave us an idea of how much support we had before we filed a lawsuit. It was actually a friendly lawsuit against the developer and the developer actually needed for us to do it. Its too much to go into here but it was settled out of court and gave the HOA thje auhtority it needed and established the covenants in a lawful manner.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Home Owner's Insurance and New Roof [ 9 Answers ]

I need a new roof on my home. Can I use my homeowners insurance for a new roof? And, if so, with insurance companies the way they are these days, would their be a chance that they would drop me if I do this? Thanks

Owner's equity [ 2 Answers ]

Why is it important to keep paid-in capital separate from earned capital?

Owner's Contributions [ 1 Answers ]

I am starting my own Bookkeeping and Consulting business. Is it best to post my start up expenses to owner contributions?


View more questions Search