[zodiacaquarius]

Be great in fight, be glorious in defeat! For, astrology is a virtue to give you the light to live your life with wisdom. Seek help from it; do not depend on it blindly.

[NeedKarma]

No.

[ebaines]

Of course not. Also - this topic belongs in the "mythology and folklore" section, not Astronomy!

[Capuchin]

Well, you could get equally accurate predictions from taking a 12 sided die, assigning a star sign to each number, and rolling and taking that horoscope as yours. Horoscopes are purposely vague. They help you to think about your life, but they offer no real pertinent information to yourself.

[ISneezeFunny]

Well, I'm sure if I stood in front of a room with about 1000 people... and told them all, "Be careful, danger looms in some of your lives..." and then said, "Be joyful, as some of you will find new love."

I'm pretty sure I'll have at least one person come up to me and tell me that the almost got in a car wreck that evening... or how they found a new love... right?

[ebaines]

I've always thought it would be fun to try an experiment with a crowd of people, where you show all 12 horoscopes from last week, but in random order and without indicating what the particular astrology sign is, and then see how accurately people can tell which was the appropriate one for them. You would expect 1 in 12 would get it correct. The problem is that if anyone actually reads and remembers horoscopes they could skew the results.

[Capuchin]

Someone did this, I can't remember his name.

He gave the same horoscope to every member of his class, while pretending that he had given them all personalised horoscopes, about 70% claimed that it was accurate for them.

[NeedKarma]

Interesting reading: Forer effect

The Forer effect refers to the tendency of people to rate sets of statements as highly accurate for them personally even though the statements could apply to many people

[ordinaryguy]

I have used astrology for over thirty years as a tool, a language, and a model to aid in the process of personal and interpersonal growth and understanding. As I use and practice it, it has nothing to do with predicting future events and circumstances. Neither does it have anything to do with categorizing people into only twelve types, and then making sweeping generalizations about each type.

I'd be happy to discuss it further with anybody who cares enough to approach the subject with an open mind, but I have no interest in trying to change anybody's mind who thinks they already know enough to decide it's bunk. I can't blame them, really, because most of what's offered on the subject in popular culture IS bunk, as several have already pointed out.

[NeedKarma]

If you aren't using for predictions or typing then how are you using astrology?

[ordinaryguy]

If you aren't using for predictions or typing then how are you using astrology?

As a tool, a language, and a model to aid in the process of personal and interpersonal growth and understanding.

[NeedKarma]

Your ideas intrigue me. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[ebaines]

As a tool, a language, and a model to aid in the process of personal and interpersonal growth and understanding.

There are plenty of methods out there to "aid in the process of personal and interpersonal growth and understanding" - many use a technique of categorizing individuals into neat personality buckets, so that you can tailor your communication style to improve interpersonal effectiveness. I'm OK with all that - certainly being perceptive towards what makes others tick can be beneficial. But do you have any evidence that one's personaity traits are somehow pre-ordained based on the position of the planets relative to the constellations on your date of birth?

[ordinaryguy]

many use a technique of categorizing individuals into neat personality buckets

Yeah, many do, but I don't.

But do you have any evidence that one's personaity traits are somehow pre-ordained based on the position of the planets relative to the constellations on your date of birth?

No. There is nothing pre-ordained or compulsory about it. If you can cleanse your mind of all notions of causation or influence, you will be ready to begin. The key concept is ANALOGY or SYMBOLIC CORRESPONDENCE. If you choose to make this analogy, it can often (but may not always) lead to useful insights. There is nothing you need to believe first in order to make the analogy. You can simply make it and see where it leads. If you choose not to make it, it has no consequence for you.

[ordinaryguy]

Your ideas intrigue me. I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

OK. Here's a start.

What a Birth Chart is
A birth chart is nothing more or less than a diagram of the positions of the other bodies of the solar system as viewed from the place and time of an individual's first breath on earth. The usefulness of this diagram as a tool for self-discovery and growth in understanding depends on the willing choice to treat it as a symbolic mandala that represents the sum of all challenges, opportunities and experiences inherent in the circumstances of one's birth. There is no necessity or requirement to make such an analogy, hence the sages say "the stars inform, they do not compel".

Where you are
You are at the center of the wheel. All the planets in all the houses in all the signs are you. Each planet represents an essential facet of yourself that needs to be expressed in this lifetime. Each house is an essential stage of development or place of action within your evolving consciousness that needs to be recognized and acknowledged as you grow. Each sign brings an archetypal attitude or style to the house it occupies and the planets (if any) that reside there. All of these are you..

Do you want more?

[NeedKarma]

Sorry mate, I don't subscribe to planets' position influencing my self-discovery and growth.

[ordinaryguy]

Sorry mate, I don't subscribe to planets' position influencing my self-discovery and growth.

Neither do I. As I said,

If you can cleanse your mind of all notions of causation or influence, you will be ready to begin.

[NeedKarma]

Can't cleanse my mind of that since I believe that my actions influence outcomes that happen to me, I call it personal responsibility.

[ordinaryguy]

Can't cleanse my mind of that since I believe that my actions influence outcomes that happen to me, I call it personal responsibility.

I also believe that my choices and actions influence what happens to me, and I take full responsibility for them. I don't mean to imply that there is no such thing as causation and influence in our lives, only that the stars and planets don't cause us to be who we are or influence what happens to us.

But when I willingly choose to make an analogy between the symbolic elements of astrology and the functions and aspects of my personality and my life circumstances, it often leads to insights and understandings that help me to make better choices and to be more satisfied with the results.

If you're unwilling, unable, or uninterested in making the analogy, that's fine. It's entirely optional.

[ordinaryguy]

AKaeTrue agrees: ordinaryguy helped me with this some time ago when I was going through a hard time in my life. The chart was extremely helpful and surprisingly accurate :-)

Thanks, Kae. The idea I'm putting out here is just that there is a way to approach the subject of astrology (and other "analogical systems") that is something more than fortune telling and cheap categorization of people. Over the years, I've found that the biggest obstacle to this approach is that most people think they already know what it's about, and they find it hard to reconsider it in a new light.