[achampio21]

HI again everyone. I last posted a question about adoption and grandparent visitation. Now I have a question about my daughter.

She is 7 years old. And about 3 1/2 years ago my mother began babysitting for her while I worked and went to college. She (my mother) had just gotten on SS Disability. So she had nothing to do anymore but involve herself in everyone else's lives. At the time her being my mother I thought that her babysitting would be the best thing ever! I paid her and I figured my daughter was being treated very well since hse was the grandbaby. Little did I know that my own mother would slit my throat in a heartbeat if it meant her getting something out of the deal.

So anyway long story short I cut all ties with my mother exactly 7 months after she began babysitting (prior to babysitting she had minimal contact with her) got a restraining order because she went psycho and battled her for 2 years in court over visitation only to lose. So for the past year that woman has had forced legal visitation with my daughter for one weekend every other month from 6pm Friday until 6pm Sunday unsupervised.

Prior to my mother babysitting my daughter was VERY well behaved, potty trained and in preschool at age 3. Total sweetheart and everyone was her best friend. When my mother began babysitting she did all things I asked and only occasionally went against my rules for my daughter. I figured it was just grandma being grandma at the time. My daughter went 2 years without seeing her and was making honorroll in school. Never had behavior problems from her except the occasional normal tantrum. And was very outgoing and wanted everyone to be her friend.

Since the court ordered visitation began, my daughter has slowly turned into my mother. Hatefule, spiteful, mean, vindictive, sneaky. Lies, steals, and is very aggressive towards me and my fiancé. She will tell me right to my face that she doesn't like rules and will do whatever she wants. And that she gets in trouble all the time because she hopes that will make me not want her and then she can go live with my mother where there aren't any rules. She will got to a visit and for three weeks afterwards she will get in trouble every day at school and will mouth off at home. Then she will finally begin to calm down. But still gets into trouble at least 2-3 times a week at school and very often at home.

Now don't get me wrong I am NOT a passive parent who thinks I need to be my children's best friend and buy their love or talk to them like they are grown ups. In my house I am the boss and they do as I say or they get punished. Now, don't misunderstand. I am not a big fat meany in my house and don't allow fun or play with my children. I am the biggest kid you'll ever meet. I play dress up and I play barbies still and I race cars on the floor. I am a heck of an artist with sidewalk chalk and I can just about make any disney creation out of pancakes. But when it is "business" time. I put the hammer down. I do not beat my children but I believe in spankings. Most of the time I make my youngest son (2) go sit down when he is being bad, which kills him more than anything.

But with my daughter... I have tried everything!! From spankings, to time out, to corner time, to major chores, to no TV, to nothing in her room but a bed and her clothes, to going straight to bed after she gets home and is fed. We have gone out to dinner and if she got introuble that day she ate spaghetti o's at home while the rest of the family has steaks out. And I am here to tell you that my daughter has the stubbornness of her mother. And she WILL NOT BREAK. She doesn't care what you do to her she is still going to do whatever she wants. Now at 7 it isn't that bad. But I want to head it off now. Counselors at school can't even get through to her. In her littl mind my mother has convinced her that she doesn't have to follow ANYBODIES rules and she can do whatever she wants whenever she wants and if anyone tries to punish her for it she can call the cops and tell them I hit her and she will get her way. Can I remind you that she is ONLY 7!! Now when I was 15 and mouthed off to my father he gave me a black eye and a busted lip. And believe me, I NEVER mouthed off to him again. But this day and age and given that she is a way bit younger than I was that is not an option. Not to mention I would go to jail and lose my other two kids.

So other than eliminating my mother, which is not possible at this time.( believe me I have been trying for 3 years now) and other than locking my daughter in her room and serving her ham sandwiches andwater for a week (believe me I thought about it :o ) Does ANYONE have any ideas on how to tame this wild child before she becomes dangerous to my boys, myself and/or herself??

[achampio21]

I am guessing that maybe this question is too long?? Or am I just on my own with finding a solution?

[Lula001]

Hi there, your situation sounds like a real problem and I can understand why you want it sorted, I am afraid that I have no real solutions for you either, I used to get this problem when my daughter used to visit her dad, she used to come back and be a totally different person, I know it is easier said than done, but have you tried just totally ignoring her till she behaves, knowing that she will have no audience sometimes works, just walk away and go and do something else, I think that the theory is that, if she has no audience, then there is no need to play up.

The other thing is that, is something happening at your mothers that she doesn't know or doesn't have the words yet to tell you about?

[achampio21]

Thank you Lula, My fiancé and I are now doing just that. When she gets in trouble we just act like it isn't a big deal and when she gets home she folds her laundry and eats dinner and goes straight to bed.

Regarding the other... I really wouldn't doubt it. But considering that I have been told by my lawyer that I cannot "interrogate" her when she comes back from the visit our hands are tied. I guess on that aspect I will have to just see if she tells me something. I have the teachers at school keeping track of any odd statements she says and they call me from time to time. Believe it or not her school is the ONLY one that seems to be on MY side. Everyone else seems to think it's not a big deal because of it being "grandma".

Thank you again.

[Gernald]

Have you spoken to grandma? You need to tell her about your daughters behavior problems and how worried it has you that she will not do well in school. If the problem is your mother then she is the one who needs to be addressed. This might kill you but maybe buy some flowers or tea or something... and go over to your mothers house without any of your other children and have a type of one on one. If your daughter will listen to grandma then maybe life will be better for you if she actually likes you and if you pretend to suck up to her. Explain your worries and fears about all your children and let her talk about your daughter and maybe mention how stubborn she is and that your sorry you were ever so stubborn.

As for at home I'd suggest doing what your already doing or perhaps calling supernanny from that TV show. I mean you don't want your daughter to hate you, but you do need her to respect you... if you go any further in punishment... sandwiches in her room for a week for example she really will hate you. On the other hand, maybe she's acting out for attention maybe take her for a day with just the two of you to the mall or the movies and dinner and try to talk to her about all of the reasons she hates you.

Hope you're able to tame the beast.

[achampio21]

Thank you Gernald. I would love to tell you that going to my mother's house is an option. But it's not. If I so much as come close to her she will call the cops and do everything she can to have me arrested. If I know ANYONE, I know her. And her ultimate goal here is not in the best interest of anyone. She is out for blood and she will stop at nothing to get what she wants. My father died a year ago January. His last request on his death bed (this came from HER lawyer to mine) was to see me and my daughter before he passed on. My mother refused. She would not even allow me at the funeral. A woman that will not grant the dying wish of her own husband of 25 years has to tell you what kind of person she is.

[Gernald]

Maybe call her first then.
I guess the good news is that people who are married for forever usually die around the same time. I don't know if that's good or bad... but I guess it's a positive for you. :)

[Sarah48375]

Did you talk about grandma while she's in ear shot? I know you were doing what was best for the child, but all your daughter saw was that you were taking away someone she loved and loved her. That is really hard for a little girl to accept. She is sooo young. My daughter is 6, I didn't realize they had honor roll at such a young age, but that's good she was doing do well.

Your mother must have been doing very bad things because it would take a lot for me to take the people my daughter loves away from her. Your daughter must be extremely confused. From your previous posts you must have sworn her not to tell your mother about your other children. I can't imagine how hard that would be on a little girl. My daughter wouldn't be able to handle it.

Honestly, I think you should take your daughter to talk to someone. A professional, non-bias, person, who she can eventually feel comfortable enough with to share her concerns. She can't talk to you because you're the one that took grandma away, so she talks to grandma, and grandma agrees with her. She thinks that you're wrong, and you hurt her and grandma. You need her to talk to a safe person. Someone you know will not bash you. This person can't be you because she no longer trusts you.

Personally, I think the best and easiest way to fix this issue is to be civil with grandma. I know your mom did some awful things, but you sound pretty angry and bitter yourself. If your mother is not a threat to your daughter, maybe you should have a civil relationship. That's what I've had to do with my daughter's father. He did awful things. He ruined my credit, cheated, verbal abuse, etc, but as far as my daughter is concerned, her dad and his fiancé are my best friends. Now that there is nothing left for you to fight, you might as well make it work for your daughter.

You need to remember, it's not about you. It's not about your mother. It's about your daughter. Even if you punish her into submission, she is still going to be messed up in the head because of this mess.

[Sarah48375]

Sorry, I wrote the whole get along with grandma thing before I saw your last post.

[Gernald]

... I'm still baffeled as to why the court granted custody to the women who you have a restraining order against. (you did say there was a restraining order didn't you?)

[achampio21]

Yes, I still have a restraining order valid until Feb of 2009. I am baffled myself. The very same judge that granted the restraining order granted the visitation. I was shocked. My mother's argument was that she had "raised my daughter and that I never saw her and that she took her to school and the doctor etc." Iwent to court with proof that all of it was lies I had the doctor testify, I had the teacher testify and I had my landlord testify. She still got visitation. But whatever.

In regards to me taking my daughter away from my mother... She only had her a couple of hours a day a couple days a week for 7 months before I cut all ties. And before I cut all ties I slowly shortened the visits. I warned my mother 3 times that if she did not follow the rules I set in regards to my daughter I would not let her see her. She still went against me and I said no more. I do not talk badly of my mother around my daughter, in fact I don't talk about the situation at all in front of my daughter or where she can hear. I grew up watching my mom beat the crap out of my dad and my dad take it my whole freakin life. I refused to do that to my kids. I prayed for them to get a divorce. I don't want my kids to feel the same about us.

[achampio21]

I am going to be totally honest in the most crude way. I know that by saying this I am putting myself in a position to be criticized but it is the truth and I am not a very good liar.

I will NOT ever have anything to do with my mother again. I refuse to allow it. I don't care if she begged and pleaded and swore she had changed. I know that she is one of the biggest scam artist, fake, using people I have ever met or heard of. I spent my whole life with her and I will NOT let her influence my kids EVER again. I can't wait for her to die for two reasons... she will be gone from my life and God can decide where she belongs. I told my fiancé that when I die if I go to Heaven and I see her there I will forgive her. Because if God can, I can. But I am here to tell you I doubt VERY seriously if that woman will make it there. I truly believe that she thinks that she is even better than HIM. That woman took a trip to Arizona and had the church pay her bills and help with the trip by telling them she had to go to a hospital out there. She stood IN the church and LIED to the PREACHER. She did NOT go to a hospital, I know because I went also. I found out about the lie when we came back and I went to church with them and everyone asked me what the hospital had said. I told them the truth and my mother did not speak to me for a week. She told the church that I was confused and I was on drugs. They still continue to help her pay her bills. And she makes plenty of money. She LIED straight-faced to a man of God in the HOUSE of GOD. And didn't miss a beat. I doubt a murderer could do that.

[talaniman]

Your child can benefit from some counseling, and have this done through her school, and a regular doctor visit, can also help in guiding you for some help in improving your child's behavior, and in finding remedies. It will also give you a chance to know what grandma is doing during visitations. Good Luck.

[O_Troubles]

I know you said you tried everything for 3 years to stop visitation but with that bad of behaviour issues its hard to understand. Like report cards from before and now combined with a phyk evaluation would show an obvious change for the worse in this little girl. Also can't you just bluff it can say you have to move and get far away from your monther? This poor daughter of yours is getting fed lies by your mother so that she would want to move in with her.

[achampio21]

We have moved once already. And my daughter told her our new address, which she learned because the school system thinks every child needs to know their phone number and address. But even if we moved from Indiana to California she would still get visitation rights. I would have to pay to fly her here and she would have to pay to fly her home. We are doing counseling through her school and I have the teacher and doctor doing everything they can. But I am telling you for whatever reason the state of Indiana gives grandparents A LOT of rights. I am beginning to think she has more rights than I do. But I appreciate all of the ideas. I am sure at some point we will come across one that works or I haven't tried yet!! THANK YOU ALL!!

[O_Troubles]

Move to a state with less grandarental rights ! I almost want to say even though this is horrible advie if your daughter wants freedom give it to her. Wait till a spring or summer break don't cook for her or clean show her it actually sucks not having rules but of couce if your mom found out you'd be in a lot o' trouble or let her sleep over at a friends houses show her everyone has rules. Or even a boot camp. It couldn't hurt and its good for kids they say so your mom couldn't twist that too much but I hope you find a solution.

[Gernald]

move to a state with less grandarental rights ! i almost want to say even tho this is horrible advie if your daughter wants freedom give it to her. wait till a spring or summer break dont cook for her or clean show her it actually sucks not having rules but of couce if ur mom found out you'd be in alot o' trouble or let her sleep over at a friends houses show her everyone has rules. or even a boot camp. it couldnt hurt and its good for kids they say so ur mom couldnt twist that too much but i hope you find a solution.

Weren't you listening?? She can't move because her mum will still have visitation and she'll have to pay for plane tickets. Good idea about the not doing anything for her, but it could backfire by her mum saying that she dosen't take care of her children or something.

[O_Troubles]

I realise that but if she moves to a state with less parental laws I'm sure she would invest the money to get rid of her mother (if she had it) also I realsie that my other suggestion could backfire I said "if ur mom found out you'd be in alot o' trouble" but its my advice don't like it don't follow it . I think at this point boot camp would be an option

[N0help4u]

Here is a site you might be interested in

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...808?1208396307

I think maybe next time you have to go to court over this maybe get your daughters school to go with you and let the Judge know they see a problem with her behavior since being with grandma.

[achampio21]

Thanks again for all the answers and ideas. I have her teacher keeping a log of her behavior and I sign off on it every week so that there is proof that I have seen it. My daughter has already thrown away notes sent home from her teacher and stolen money from a girl on the bus because I quit giving her money to get snacks at school. The teacher took the money from her and contacted me through a note. Since I didn't call her she called me and we agreed that is how it will be done from now on. I spoke with my attorney yesterday. And I have a visit coming up the end of this month. The last visit my mother took my daughter to the er at 11pm on Friday night for what she decided was acid reflux. Yeah to the er for some burping and gas. While at the er she changed all of my daughters contact info to her address and phone number. And she NEVER called me to let me know that she was at the er, which is in the court orders. So this time around I have a dr's appointment scheduled the day of the visit and a dentist appoint for the day before and I am buying my daughter a purse that will have my phone number in permanent marker on the bottom. (her excuse for not calling was she didn't have our number, even though my lawyer and her lawyer gave it to her and it was on the court orders which she signed) And I have alerted all the surrounding hospitals of the problem and that I am to be contacted ANYTIME my daughter comes there. So we will see what happens this next visit. If some more backwards sneaky crap goes on I will be taking her back to court and I have decided that if after ALL the evidence I have the judge still allows visitation I am going to ask the courts for the paprework to sign that will make my daughter a ward of the state. If I have to sacrifice my daughter who wants to live with her anyway to save my other two and the courts won't help me I guess I will have to.