[labman]

Now we are bashing Poodles. I won't deny there are a bunch of poor ones out there. The breed may never recover from its over popularity in the 50's. Too many substandard dogs were bed. The Poodle actually was bred as a retriever originally. Poodle comes from the same root word as puddle. The good ones are highly prized as service dogs because they lack the dander that causes most of the dog allergies. I have done a blindfold walk with a Poodle as my guide. Here is a picture from from one of the training meetings for those raising puppies for dog guides.



Here are a couple of web sites on Poodles I share. http://www.jagerslatijn.nl/jagerslatijn/poodle.htm
http://www.vipoodle.org/

I will warn you I haven't verified the reliability of those sites. They could be as big load of garbage as many dog care websites. I have never seen a pick up with a gun rack and a Poodle in the back.

[Melinda]

Labman, are you FOR bans? I'm am so against it, as my bank account will show you, there is no "pure bred" pit bull, pit bulls are actually crosses, they have men here in Cornwall, with no association with animals except to pick up strays, deciding whether a dog is a pit bull or not. Figure that one out, I couldn't pick a pit bull out of a batch of dogs... I have joined owners in Ottawa for sit ins, roughly 100 pit bull owners and dogs showed up, no fights what so ever, pits, stafforshires and mixes ARE dog aggressive, yes, it's a known fact, but socialize!! Have them fixed, pits are the most loyal , bum wagging dogs... IF in the right hands... same with shepherds, rotti's, any large breed... write to your govt, speak out for the dogs... for canadians.. fight bill 132 please... MY ontario includes pit bulls... does your state?

[Melinda]

I'm not bashing poodles... I'm bashing owners... irresponsible owners and just pointing out how any dog can be dangerous... poms also, chi's... anybreed... a lab in the wrong hands... I've had a rotti/lab/dane... so gentle... my daycare loved her... now I have a lab/shepherd 10 months old... gentle as a lamb with them... she was taught to be...

[turbodigger]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we rarely, if ever, hear about crazed poodles or labs tearing a child apart.

Poodle and lab aren't the only other type of dogs, maybe you picked those because you know that most other types of dogs do attak. The other day I was attacked by a jack russel terrier. 2 holes in my hand and ripped my finger nail off. So I guess we should kill all of them too. Oh and my brother was bitten by a german shepard when he was younger, they also should be killed. Come on now, the ones that are scared of pitbulls are only scared because of the news. German shepards attack just as much. Why do you think they are used as police dogs, so they have dogs that attack people. Hmmmmm intersting

[fredg]

HI, Turbo,
Dogs have behavioral instincts and many are leaders of their packs. As you said in your post, I agree with it.
Dogs are not the problem; the problem is owners who do not know how to train their dogs, are not aware there really is a problem, and do not even know enough to ask "why".
I have seen little Chihuahuas go after anything much bigger than they are, and they think they are "King Kong"... don't know their own size. One of them can eat up a human baby before anyone knows what has happened; inflicting many skin tears and bites.
It all comes back to the owner.
As you said, it doesn't really matter about the dog breed. What does matter is the owner.
I do think that German Shepards are used as Police dogs because of their size, and they also have a high intelligence. As I understand it, Poodles are the highest on the dog intelligence ladder.
So, maybe Police Poodles??

[Melinda]

Exactly what I was trying to say, it's not the breed, it's the owners.

[Melinda]

Lilfrye *L* I accept being the new best friend *L*

[fredg]

Hi, Melinda,
I agree that it's the owners, too.
Sometimes, I have a hard time typing what I want to say.
It's like can't walk and chew gum at the same time!

[Melinda]

I know how it is Fredg, if the govt would spend their money, not on bills and bans, but on wiping out byb's, and puppy mills, we'd solve half the problem, it's law to have your dog licenced, it should be law to have your dog spayed/neutured unless you show proof of being a registered kennel, ALL dogs should have to go to at least one session of puppy school. *gets off my soap box and tucks it away till next time*

[jennapbt]

You know what saddens me is that almost everyone has to put in their 2 cents on a subject even though they know absolutely nothing about that particular subject. Granted there are a few that actually OWN pit bulls and know what they are talking about. When a "pit bull" attacks it goes to the media because they figure that's what the community wants to hear. What most people don't know is that there have been MANY cases where it was said to be a "pit bull" but was really actually a totally different breed. There are also breeds out there that are very similar to pit bulls looks that people misidentify them as that breed. The "pit bull" gene is the most dominant gene therefore if a dog was only 10% "pit bull" it would look very similar to one. There are cases of other attacks by numerous breeds that arnt heard of that do occur. There was a story I remember of a pomeranian killing a baby. I agree with the fact that there are bad owners that eventually contribute to sad stories of dog attacks but it's DOG attacks not only pit bulls. I know of people that wanted to make their "pit bull" mean and vicious just because it's a pit bull, he would beat it and do all kinds of other cruel things but all in all the dog just didn't have a mean streak in him. I personally agree that if a "pit bull" shows any kind of human aggression they should get some pink juice. Pit bulls were in fact created for being game dogs to help farmers and butchers catch unruly bulls and other large farm animals. The one thing they weren't bred for was human aggression any pit bull that showed human aggression was, plainly put, shot to be killed. The behavior was learned not bred. I own and breed pit bulls and any type of aggression be it human or dog I do not tolerate. Now me feeding my dogs vitamins and a healthy food and caring about the bloodline and weights of my dog does not IN ANY WAY mean that I care about fighting my dogs. I care for my dogs like they are family, I care about their nutrition to live healthy lives, I care about their body weight to live healthy, I breed to better the breed, I care about bloodlines because I have show dogs. Everyone that meets my dogs always LOVES them, just for the fact that they are very sweet well mannered dogs. People have the right to hate something like the "pit bull" and I understand that and accept that fact that they are ignorant, I accept it when I have this breed of dog. I just hope that one day the pit bull will go back to what it was; the American Icon. After all of this abuse it deserves it, just to see that there are so many loving pit bulls that have been through hell and back and still find it in their heart to love no matter what. What about the rotties, shephards, dobies that were all the "bad dog" which are now seen as loyal protectors? Did you stop to think about WHY the police force uses the G Shephard? All in all this wonderful breed doesn't deserve to take the fall on human ignorance.
I credit the people that are loyal to the breed because we see eye to eye on how wonderful these dogs are.
I'll leave it on a good note, enjoy the "vicious pit bull" pictures!

Mortal enemies... or close allies?

Who considers kisses as viciousness?

Why do people hate us, this child loves me.

Even after the frustrations of carrying pups for 63 weeks she considers this one a pup also

How could you hate this?

Nothing but love!

[Melinda]

No one is arguing with you jenna, you've just more or less said what all of us are saying right along...

[orange]

Agreed. I think most of the people in this thread are against the pit bull ban, or ban of any breed of dog for that matter. I know I am.

[kriskstar]

I like the comment I read earlier about how if a human commits a crime, it's the fault of society, the fault of government, or it's always someone else's fault other than the person's, when the reality is that the person is worthless. And if I was to say oh, that's just a worthless black man that did the crime, I would have all these orginizations down my throat saying how I can't put the deeds of a few bad apples on a group of people. Yet when a dog did something bad, its never the result of how they were raised or the environment they are in, no it's because these dogs are evil, villanous masterminds who want to do nothing but harm. (sarcasm alert!) and of course every dog with the title of Pit Bull is bad. It's funny, we are the "advanced" species yet we need excuses for our wrong doing. But when it comes to animals, they just do what they do. Spare the pups, euthanize humans!

8==8 A bone for the pups.
-----------------------------------------------------------
My Pit Bull is always there to lend a hand :-)

[jennapbt]

I know I wasn't out to argue, I was just stating the facts. I'm glad it still stirs up a commotion about the ban. I give credit to all pit bull owners. :)

[Melinda]

I only give credit to any dedicated owner of any breed of dog that raises them right...

[jennapbt]

Lol of course, one upper, but since this is a pit bull thread, and I love pit bulls I thought I would give credit where credit is due. I love animals so of course I'm not going to be like oh you beat your poodle that's all right just don't beat your pit bull. :p

[Melinda]

*L* I like you jenn, you know how to give and take, I'm not an owner of a staffordshire or pitty, but I'm still fighting the ban, many of my friends own the bredd, in fact, my dogs trainer has three mixes that were deemed "unmanagable" and she adopted them, up until the ban, they were companion dogs and visted the seniors homes and schools in our area... the seniors were so upset when they could no longer be brought to the home.

[pwillett06]

I love pitbulls. I use to own one. I would own one again. Here is a story of an irresponsible owner. My fiancée and his four year old son were playing in the yard the other day when they heard a blood curdling scream coming from right in front of them. My fiancée saw two small children running towards a parked car with a pitbull following close behind. The children jumped into the car and the pitbull tried to claw itself into the vehicle. The police came and the pitbull went after them and was tasered to the ground. We were all very lucky that this ended this way. For me, all I could think was "thank god he didn't see my four year old son". This was a well cared for pitbull who escaped from his home when he saw the children pass by. He was raised to fight and kill. A pitbull is not born a killer, it is raised and trained to kill. Irresponsible owners are killing a beautiful breed of dog who are just as loyal and loving as any other breed when raised right. You can breed it out of them just as easy as you bred them into it. Dog temperament is unstable with any breed. Ask the woman who had a face transplant after her labrodor bit it off. Don't blame the breed, blame the breeder.

[brazygirl08]

Real quick. This is not in response to you... but everyone!
I work at a Doggie Daycare/Boarding facility. I would like everyone to know that LABS are considered one of the most aggressive breeds! I have been bitten by a little Caring Terrier and a Lab and almost bit by many other labs. NEVER has a Rottie, Pit or Doberman tried to hurt me. They need to bring down the people that fight the dogs and punish them... not the poor animals! We have 6 pits and NEVER have had any problems. They are loyal, smart and great listeners... one of the smartest breeds I have ever owned! Own one before you dog them... One more thing... A LAB OR A GOLDEN RETRIEVER even a SMALL dog could be trained to KILL!!

[froggy7]

In 2003, 13 years after the ban on 'pit bulls' was implemented, Winnipeg reported 166 dog bites caused by the following dog breeds:

Shepherd cross (38), Terrier cross (11), Rottweiler (11), Lab cross (10), German Shepherd (8), Husky cross (7), Border Collie cross (7), Bearded Collie cross (6), Rottweiler cross (5), Chow cross (5), Lab (5), Great Dane cross (3), Golden Retriever (3), Dalmation (3), Poodle cross (2), Golden Retriever cross (2), Cocker Spaniel cross (2), Boxer cross (2), Australian Shepherd cross (2), Terrier (2), Pomeranian (2), Chow Chow (2), Boxer (2), Border Collie (2), Samoyed cross (1), Mastiff cross (1), Heeler cross (1), Great Pyrennes cross (1), Doberman cross (1), Dachshund cross (1), Dalmation cross (1), Corgi cross (1), Akita cross (1), Springer Spaniel (1), Siberian Husky (1), Shih Tzu (1), 'Pit bull' type (1), Miniature Schnauzer (1), Irish Setter (1), Great Dane (1), Doberman Pinscher (1), Dachshund (1), Cocker Spaniel (1), Bull Mastiff (1), Brittany Spaniel (1), Bloodhound (1), Bichon Frise (1), Akita (1).

Just a general comment on statistics like these. While they are helpful, they can be misleading, because you don't know the denominator data. 38 shepherd cross bites may seem like a lot, but is that 1% of the shepherd cross population or 50%? 2 poodle bites may seem low, but if they are the only two in Wiinipeg, that would be 100% of the poodle population. So keep that in mind when you see these sorts of things.