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    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #21

    Mar 25, 2008, 04:32 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by George_1950
    You may have a case of "John Kerryitis"; Cheney is saying the American soldiers are patriots, and their service is sacred, not profane as you suggest.
    He said nothing of what you mention. Read the quoted again: "...and reminded ABC news that the U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan volunteered for duty"
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #22

    Mar 25, 2008, 05:15 AM
    I would have to say that the MSM like ABC news is giddy over this milestone . Cheney did say they are volunteers, but he did not mean ;or said it in a way that insinuates that their lives are expendable and meaningless.

    “the United States has an “absolute obligation” to remain in Iraq long enough to make it a success.”...“The failure of the Iraqi state would be a disaster,”.”It would dishonor the 900-plus men and women who have already died. . . . It would be a betrayal of the promise that we made to the Iraqi people, and it would be hugely destabilizing from a national security perspective.”
    (Obama 2004)
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #23

    Mar 25, 2008, 05:24 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55
    I would have to say that the MSM like ABC news is giddy over this milestone . Cheney did say they are volunteers, but he did not mean ;or said it in a way that insinuates that their lives are expendable and meaningless.
    Hello tom:

    To say that the MSM is happy about 4,000 dead Americans is about as outrageous a statement as you've ever made here. Assuming you don't think 4,000 dead neighbors is bad, I'm sure you'll be happy with John McCain's 100 years of war. You're right, 4,000 dead is going to be NOTHING compared to what McCain has in mind.

    Furthermore, Cheney meant exactly what you say he didn't.

    excon
    NeedKarma's Avatar
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    #24

    Mar 25, 2008, 05:25 AM
    ^^ excon said it perfectly.
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    #25

    Mar 25, 2008, 05:52 AM
    Iraq was off the radar until this milestone approached... why ? Because all the news coming out of Iraq was good. My statement is not outrageous at all. I have watched the news coverage and read the press.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
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    #26

    Mar 25, 2008, 06:07 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55
    Iraq was off the radar until this milestone approached ...why ? because all the news coming out of Iraq was good. My statement is not outrageous at all. I have watched the news coverage and read the press.
    iraq - Search results for iraq - CNN.com

    You're funny tom but not when you try to pass off the bullcrap.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #27

    Mar 25, 2008, 06:08 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55
    Iraq was off the radar until this milestone approached ...why ? because all the news coming out of Iraq was good. My statement is not outrageous at all. I have watched the news coverage and read the press.
    Hello again, tom:

    It WAS off the radar, until we realized that 4,000 dead Americans isn't worth what you perceive as good news from Iraq.

    The outrageousness of your statement is that you think people like Keith Olbermann is HAPPY that 4,000 American kids have lost their lives. It's NEWS. It's his JOB to put it out there. To say he's HAPPY about it is outrageous.

    I watch the news too.

    So?

    excon
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    #28

    Mar 25, 2008, 06:36 AM
    NK what I said is true . All you are showing is anything CNN picked up on the wire; Not what was on their broadcasts .
    speechlesstx's Avatar
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    #29

    Mar 25, 2008, 06:38 AM
    Did any of you actually read the article NK quoted or watch the interview on that page? There was absolutely nothing dismissive in Cheney's words and shame on all of you who contend - either dishonestly or ignorantly - that he did.

    "It obviously brings home I think for a lot of people the cost that's involved in the global war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan. It places a special burden obviously on the families, and we recognize, I think — it's a reminder of the extent to which we are blessed with families who've sacrificed as they have. The president carries the biggest burden, obviously, he's the one who has to make the decision to commit young Americans, but we are fortunate to have a group of men and women, the all-volunteer force, who voluntarily put on the uniform and go in harm's way for the rest of us, and we wish nobody ever lost their life. But unfortunately that's one of those things that go with living in the world we live in. Sometimes you have to commit military force and when you do there are casualties. "
    He goes on to call this all volunteer force a "tremendous national asset." Honestly people, to think Cheney is dismissive of the troops and their sacrifice is asinine.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
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    #30

    Mar 25, 2008, 06:51 AM
    Nah, you're right, Cheney is a good guy who looks out for others.
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    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #31

    Mar 25, 2008, 06:57 AM
    Hello Steve:

    Yes, I did read the quote. It's outrageous!

    He has the balls to say that the president has a bigger burden than the parents whose children were KILLED.

    UNREAL!

    He thinks the troops are an asset, OK, but his meaning is clear. Since they VOLUNTEERED, it's THEIR fault they died, not his.

    UNREAL!

    excon
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    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #32

    Mar 25, 2008, 09:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon
    Hello Steve:

    Yes, I did read the quote. It's outrageous!

    He has the balls to say that the president has a bigger burden than the parents whose children were KILLED.

    UNREAL!

    He thinks the troops are an asset, ok, but his meaning is clear. Since they VOLUNTEERED, it's THEIR fault they died, not his.

    UNREAL!
    Come on ex, you said he was "dismissive" and he most certainly was not. He first mentioned the "special burden" on the families and how we are "blessed with families who've sacrificed as they have." Noting they are volunteers emphasizes the sacrifice, it doesn't diminish it - they know these men and women didn't have to serve. Bush and Cheney both know that and have praised their bravery and sacrifice many, many times.

    Cheney also said "You regret every casualty, every loss. The president is the one that has to make that decision to send young men and women into harm's way. It never gets any easier." That sounds nothing like "Since they VOLUNTEERED, it's THEIR fault they died, not his."

    Look, even I disagree that Bush carries the bigger burden than the families but he was not "dismissive." But right or wrong, to say he is " But right or wrong, to say he is " of their sacrifice is dishonest. Perhaps he was just thinking about what the left has been reminding us of for the past 5 years, that Bush is responsible for all of these deaths... that is a rather large burden.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
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    #33

    Mar 25, 2008, 09:22 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    Bush is responsible for all of these deaths...that is a rather large burden.
    So why did he refuse to allow photos of soldiers' caskets to be publicized?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #34

    Mar 25, 2008, 09:36 AM
    So why did he refuse to allow photos of soldiers' caskets to be publicized?
    Because he doesn't want the photos to become more fodder for the gleeful media and propaganda for the anti-war opposition ? Because he is showing sensitivity and respect for the privacy of the family members ?
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #35

    Mar 25, 2008, 09:46 AM
    Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace.

    American Revolutionary War, 1775 – 1783
    Boston campaign, 1775 - 1776
    Canadian Theatre, 1775 - 1776
    New York and New Jersey campaign, 1776 - 1777
    Saratoga Campaign, 1777
    Philadelphia Campaign, 1777 - 1778
    Western Theatre, 1775 - 1782
    Northern Theater, 1778 - 1781
    Southern Theatre, 1775 - 1782
    Northwest Indian War, 1785 - 1795
    Quasi-War, France, 1798 – 1800

    [edit] 19th Century
    First Barbary War, 1801 – 1805
    Sabine Expedition, 1806
    War of 1812, 1812 – 1815
    Tecumseh's Rebellion, 1811 - 1813
    Lake Champlain Campaign, 1812 - 1814
    Niagara Campaign, 1812 - 1814
    Detroit Campaign, 1812 - 1814
    Chesapeake Campaign, 1813 - 1814
    Creek War, 1813 - 1814
    Peoria War, 1813
    Southern Campaign,
    Second Barbary War, 1815
    First Seminole War, 1817 - 1818
    Winnebago War, 1827
    Black Hawk War, 1832
    Second Seminole War, 1835 - 1842
    Mexican-American War, 1846 – 1848
    Cayuse War, 1847 - 1855
    Third Seminole War, 1855 - 1858
    American Civil War, 1861 – 1865
    Union blockade, 1861 - 1865
    Eastern Theater, 1861 - 1865
    Western Theater, 1861 - 1865
    Lower Seaboard Theater, 1861 - 1865
    Trans-Mississippi Theater, 1861 - 1865
    Dakota Conflict, 1862
    Pacific Coast Theater, 1863
    Colorado War, 1863 - 1865
    Reconstruction, 1865-1876
    Red Cloud's War, 1866 - 1868
    Korean Expedition, 1871
    Modoc War, 1872 - 1873
    Red River War, 1874 - 1875
    Black Hills War, 1876 - 1877
    Nez Perce War, 1877
    Bannock War, 1878
    Cheyenne War, 1878 - 1879
    Sheepeater Indian War, 1879
    Ute War, 1879-1880
    Pine Ridge Campaign, 1890-1891
    Battle of Leech Lake, 1898
    Spanish-American War, 1898
    Philippine Insurrection, 1899 - 1902

    [edit] 20th Century
    Boxer Rebellion, 1900 - 1902
    Banana Wars:
    United States occupation of Nicaragua, 1909-1933
    United States occupation of Veracruz, 1914
    United States occupation of Haiti, 1915-1934
    Mexican Expedition, 1916 - 1917
    United States occupation of the Dominican Republic, 1917-1924
    Battle at Nogales, Arizona, 1917
    World War I, 1917 – 1918
    European Theatre, 1917 - 1918
    First Battle of the Atlantic, 1917 - 1918
    Polar Bear Expedition, 1918 - 1919
    American Expeditionary Force Siberia, Soviet Union, 1918 - 1920
    Yangtze Patrol, 1920's
    World War II, 1941 – 1945
    Second Battle of the Atlantic, 1941 - 1945
    Pacific War, 1941 - 1945
    African Theatre, 1942 - 1943
    European Theatre, 1944 - 1945
    Cold War, 1947 - 1990 with the following hot wars and campaigns:
    Korean Conflict, 1950 - 1953
    Operation PBFORTUNE, Guatemala, 1952
    Operation Ajax, 1953
    Operation PBSUCCESS, Guatemala, 1954
    Bay of Pigs Invasion, Cuba, 1961
    Vietnam War, 1962 - 1973
    Laotian Civil War, 1962 - 1973
    Cambodian Civil War, 1969 - 1970
    Operation Powerpack, Dominican Republic, 1965 - 1966
    Operation Urgent Fury, Invasion of Grenada, 1983
    Operation Blue Bat, Lebanon, 1958
    Operation Eagle Claw, Iran hostage crisis, 1980
    First Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1981
    Operation El Dorado Canyon, Libya, 1986
    Iran-Iraq War, 1987 - 1989
    Operation Just Cause, Panama 1989 - 1990
    Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, Libya, 1989
    Persian Gulf War, Iraq, 1991
    Operation Desert Shield, 1991
    Operation Desert Storm, 1991
    Somali Civil War, 1992 - 1994
    Operation Provide Relief, 1992
    Operation Restore Hope, 1992 - 1994
    Yugoslav wars, 1994 - 1999
    Bosnian Conflict, 1994 - 1995
    Kosovo Conflict, 1997 - 1999

    [edit] 21st Century
    War on Terrorism, 2001 - present
    Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan 2001 - present
    Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines 2002 - present
    Operation Enduring Freedom - Horn of Africa 2002 - present
    Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003 - present
    Waziristan War, 2004 - present
    War in Somalia, 2006 - present
    Operation Enduring Freedom - Trans Sahara 2007 - present
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #36

    Mar 25, 2008, 10:27 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl
    So why did he refuse to allow photos of soldiers' caskets to be publicized?
    Here's a little publicized fact Wondergirl.

    Under a policy adopted in 1991, the Pentagon bars news organizations from photographing caskets being returned to the United States, saying publication of such photos would be insensitive to bereaved families.
    THIS Bush obviously did not establish the policy.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    #37

    Mar 25, 2008, 10:37 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    THIS Bush obviously did not establish the policy.
    Weird:

    Body of 2nd son killed in Iraq returned - USATODAY.com

    Political Muscle : Los Angeles Times : California Nears 300 Dead in Iraq War

    A painful farewell to a fallen Marine - The Boston Globe
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #38

    Mar 25, 2008, 12:14 PM
    What's weird, NK, that photos of the caskets of fallen soldiers are now being shown? Photos began to be released in 2005 as the result of a lawsuit.
    George_1950's Avatar
    George_1950 Posts: 3,099, Reputation: 236
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    #39

    Mar 25, 2008, 03:38 PM
    It is curious how folks perceive and react to events. I was reading a Time/Life book that included pictures of the Arizona just after the Pearl Harbor bombing. The legend said that the U.S. government (FDR) waited a year before releasing the photos. "Modern" warfare is said to have begun with the U.S. Civil War, with "unconditional surrender" and all. I wonder what the good folks in the Northern states would have said about Honest Abe if they had seen TV news about the Union Army burning its way from Atlanta to Savannah, and from Charleston to Charlotte; the path of destruction was supposedly 100 miles wide. I would suppose it was more destructive than Hurricane Katrina; fewer lives taken, but more destructive than the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There is perspective and context to every event; does the American government bear responsibility for loss of life in Iraq? President Bush, V-President Cheney, and the Congress haven't killed anyone. In my view, most have been murdered by the opposition.
    magprob's Avatar
    magprob Posts: 1,877, Reputation: 300
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    #40

    Mar 25, 2008, 04:36 PM
    Let me lay it out for you George. The only difference is that our U.S. Soldiers believe they are doing the right thing. They are "patriotic." They, unlike a growing number of Americans, still believe the Mafia that has infiltrated our government. You know, the Bush Cartel.

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