[bizygurl]

InSearchOfAnswers, does her "sweet and vulnerable' personality out way her destructive behavior. I think that's really what you need to ask yourself.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

I know you said she was raped, but that, I would think would make her think about doing what shes been doing. Meaning, if she's putting herself in an environment or situations that something like that could happen again then why? And wether people think she's a "slut" or not, If shes exuding "i screw like a man" vibe and projecting that behavior while shes out, men are going to think thats who she is, regardless if shes sweet and vulnerable with you. I think her behavior just sounds like its causing a lack of trust, and although im sure shes a great person she may not be gf material if thats what your looking for.

BG

thanks for the replies ... to address the quote above, i always admired her strong-willed nature, but then as i got to know her i was curious if her vibe was due to her nature or nurture - did the rape cause this or is that just her? perhaps i harped too much on the rape when i found out about it. i dont know. i do know it was nearly impossible for me to comprehend that. im a nice guy. i couldnt rape anyone. it really angered me to learn someone did this to the girl i love ... but i will get more intothe possible "cause" below..


i have an update for everyone and would like to see what you think. and some more background info


my girl and i have been apart for 2.5 months now. she had to go on a long biz trip, so all of this couldnt have come at a worst time. add the 'coworker' mess to it and it really got to me...

but i did something i probably should have done a year ago - i called her best friend for help. my GF doesnt have a lot of GFs, as she seems to get along better with guys. shes very pretty, but she grew up a tomboy idolizing her big brother. so this friend is the only window into her mind lately and it was an eye opener

fwiw, this is what i do know: our relationship needs a communication overhaul. when i spoke with her best friend she told me my GF had been beside herself for the last 5 months she was so upset with the status of our relationship. i guess in the beginning of 07 when i though getting engaged was going to be a great move for us, our relationship took a step back when i asked her abaout the ex contact and why she 'needs' to keep in contact with old flings... call me an immature male or ridicule my fragile male ego id you will (haHA) but the manner in which she brazenly kept contact bothered me. My exes are exes for a reason. I dont seek them out nor do i email or converse with them at length ... but i guess thats just me.

...i couldnt figure out why she 'needed' this but it made me feel like there was something either i wasnt providing or something she was lacking due to the rape years ago... im no shrink, but i made the assumption that her need to keep them in her life was possibly the laten effects of sexual trauma ... but im sure her openness about her past and the guys just in the rear view didnt put my mind at ease. it made me feel oddly lacking and my perception of her was that she was possibly warped in some sense and wasnt even aware. maybe i overthought the whole thing, but marriage is a big step and i want to do it right. in retrospect, im glad i waited as its best IMO to get the bugs out b/f the nuptials.

i even told her friend that i was already shopping for rings and had my mom/sis/dad all weigh in. it was going to be beautiful and unique. her friend was nearly in tears when i told her. apparently my GF had no clue (which is what i wanted)

anyway, when i spoke with her friend she was very glad to speak with me and asked me what was going on with us. when i learned that my GF had been very upset it was A TOTAL SHOCk to me ... it still is. i couldnt understand why she didnt come to me (or come to me in a more direct way) or that i didnt pickup on it .

her friend also told me that my GF was estcatic with us when we were clicking - we were such a great match for each other. But that before the 'real trouble' started 6 months ago. Her friend told me that around this time she was talking wedding and engagement rings. again - ANOTHER SHOCK. this was even a shock to her friend since my GF has NEVER mentioned marriage to her about any guy she has dated. My GFs friend was blown away.

So anyway, when i was planning all of this, i wanted to ask my GF to lose the exes and focus on us. I didnt understand why the contact was so important, even if it was random emails or the rare call. But she told me that my job situation wasnt the best and that she didnt see anything wrong with her talking to them, even if it did visbly bother me. my perception: she didnt want to take the next step yet since she was still 'involved' (for lack of a btter word) with ppl from her past. (i think i have mentioned to the board that when my GF and i discussed why she talks with the guys from her past and that it bothered to the point where i wanted the issues resolved before we took the realtionship to the next step. she told me she didnt see anything wrong with it and that we shouldnt go that route yet since i was working crap job at the time. But i already had the money and the ring and the location lined up ...my misperception: she was stalling.

I even went to a rape therapist by myself in an effort to get her to join me. i was trying to go the extra mile to fix us and i got the vibe that she didnt care. recently, she told me she now can appreciate my effort and that she felt she had already dealt with it so it was my problem and i should deal with it... not us. but now she admits that was wrong.

but during that time i felt she didnt want to work through our problems. couple that with the delayed engagment and i will admit that i got a little resentful and mad since we had talked openly of our love and how neither of us believed in soulmates b/f we met, but we agreed that love hit both of us like a ton of bricks. (it was great. i really miss those times.) So I went back to to my very excited parents and told them it wasnt the right time. that was a tough day for me... i was very confused and hurt. i just wish i would have talked it out more at that time

Well I spoke about that infamous 'ex talk' yesterday with my GF and the reality of that conversation was she didnt want to put any undue pressure on me since i was working a shtty job for a few months. my emphasis was that 'im working a shtty job" meaning that it was making an engagment that much harder. same topic, same argument, completely opposite points of view... and both of us had good intentions. i felt like sht, and yesterday i wanted to tell her that during that time i had already planned our engagment but then i thought that wasnt what she wanted and she was getting cold feet, but i knew that wouldnt be fair to her, even though i wanted to clear the air b/w us

also, during the conversation with my GFs friend, she conceded that my GF does indeed keep in contact with exes, but she pointed out that she keeps everyone close, not just exes. Her thinking: my GF has abandonment issues. That actually makes sense. My GFs parents split when she was 6 and she moved around a lot and then went to boarding school. her childhood is the exact opposite of mine: i have the same core group of great friends now that i had in K-1. Many of us went through college together. My family is large and intact, hers is not. Maybe we just process things so differently its nearly impossible to see it from the others POV...


heres the kicker though. during the recent heart to heart with my GF over the phone and she seems so distant and removed now... emotionless. i began the conversation apologizing for my behavior (my 'coldness' when i shut down abt 5 months ago) but tried to tell her in a nice way i was only reacting to things that i perceived that she had "done" ... i tried to say that i misread her a year ago and that my misperceptions eventually lead to me becoming distant. (FWIW, when i did put up walls at that time, i was hurt and felt like she didnt care about us and wasnt going to put forth the effort to work on our problems, so it was very frustrating). She has admitted to overlooking my feeling at times and she appreciates my past efforts, but now she seems hung up on calling BS on my reason for shutting down. she feels im really putting the balme on her (and IMO she does need to share the blame)

so as im saying this, she is being sarcastic and says stuff like "i know im a terrible girlfriend. i dont care. im awful. " and then she says shes tired of me blaming my 'coldness' on her actions. she really emphasized this: she acted selfishly, i tried to help us , she didnt join in, so i shut down ... but she gets mad b/c she says im trying to say i am in the clear since we can blame everything on her initial actions (or lack thereof).

she did put herself and her career 1st at times, but if we had read each other better, or communicated better, i feel llike a lot of this could have been avoided.

so i offer an apology and tell her i was wrong to be cold to her, that i ahd made mistakes, that we need to work on some thing, and if we do it togethrt then i think we can get back to where we were. however she still seems mad and bitter ... distant. she has a 'we'll see' attitude and i address that with her yesterday, politely asking her to put down her walls since i have put down mine. she says shes still mad and that "oh, now we are going to put everything behind us ... NOW we are" so its like we are in a push-pull cycle. i feel like im chasing my tail now.

and to bring it all full circle, her friend told me she wouldnt think my GF would cheat on me and didnt know why my GF would act that way about a guy (but of course she would say that) ... maybe my GF was keeping something from me. maybe there isnt anything going on. who knows. i would like to believe that we have been faithful to each other, but that the tough times, not someone else, have caused this void to form between us. but i did want to give the baord the full scoop on the last 13 months. the 'white lies' pissed me off, but who knows what stemmed them? common miscommunication? shady behavior? i dont know the answer. i do know that i hate the fact she was so open about her past and i wish that i ahd called her friend months ago. the insight she gave me was priceless. i had no idea she cared about us and our direction like she obviouslt does.
im hoping when she returns we can work it out, but if shes too far gone, maybe its all happening for a reason.

thanks in advance for the feedback

[talaniman]

Time to go fishing for 3 days, and mull this over.

[LivingtheLifeinFLA]

Too much drama, this is going to go nowhere. Abandonment issues? Normally, when people always abandon you, you become real cautious as to what people you maintain close contacts with, not the other way around.

Plus, I wouldn't believe a thing her girlfriend is telling you, it will all go back to her. I have been in your shoes always hoping for the positive, but she's no good, do yourself a favor and go nc, and forget her. She has too many issues and is immature, you'll find someone better.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

'nc'
?

[N0help4u]

You need to give her an ultimatum black out drinking with friends or you. She is not going to change for you. I get the feeling you are just another boyfriend in her line up of bf's she has accumulated through the years. She probably sees you as not being the final one either.
She is doing whatever she can get away with and then hoping that when you find out you will think it has been weeks or months so 'water under the dam' and not concern yourself with her behavior. BUT she is having these black outs so how do you know what she actually did or did not do? AND is she having these 'black outs' to conveniently avoid and cover up things she doesn't want to admit to?
She is saying whatever she has to to string you along.

[eddiec]

You need to take a good look at yourself, sounds like your co-dependent;)

[Homegirl 50]

This is just way too much drama. This relationship sounds very one-sided to me. You are more serious than she is and I'm not understanding why you let her walk all over you and treat you with such disregard.
You need to leave this women alone. You two are not on the same page on anything. Marriage is totally out of the question.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

Just FYI

We have talked a few times about the topics above

We both agree that we have grossly miscommunicated over the recent months

She has agreed to go to a counselor/shrink for the rape issues as well as couples therapy

I have told her we need to meet in the middle on a lot of different areas or we just aren't going to work

We'll see what happens. I'm trying to be open minded but also keep my guard up and look out for me. If it works out, it works out. If it doesn't, it wasn't meant to be. But at least I can now walk away knowing I've given this my best shot.

[Emland]

I think the most obvious thing in this long story is that your GF is not ready for marriage. She doesn't really appear healthy enough for a long term relationship. Whether it was the rape or other influences growing up, she has a problem connecting to one person – you. If the rape was committed by someone she trusted then it is easy to see why she can't commit. She did it and looked what happened. That's why I believe she hangs on to the exes – they're backup when you bail on her.

Her reluctance to see a counselor makes me think that she really hasn't tamed the demons of her past and also that she fears being discovered an alcoholic. Perhaps a single occurrence, years ago, might be overlooked but repeated binge drinking to the point of blacking out is a problem. It's also a convenient excuse to try to explain away bad behavior. It wasn't my fault – I was drunk!

I'm of a different generation than you. My only sex partner is my husband of 22 years, so I really can't understand the sex chatter of previous relationships. I can understand having a frank discussion about past relationships so everyone knows where they stand, but reliving a fling with a former lover in front of the person you claim to have a serious relationship is Just Plain Tacky. How is a person supposed to respond to something like that?

[PsYcHoSiS]

Hope it all works out for you, I would like to say something regarding the topic but I feel I'll say something that I may regret in the near future..

[InSearchOfAnswers]

She did it and looked what happened. That's why I believe she hangs on to the exes – they're backup when you bail on her.

That's where it gets confusing. She told me about her past relationships and I can tell she's not one to 'backslide' into them again. She sees every fling/relationship/encounter as this freeze-frame in time and she 'treasures' each snapshot. My words, not hers, but that's the gist. She used to poenly contact/reply to old lovers in front of me, so when I let her know that bothered me, she was dumb-struck. "Why?" was the usual dumbfounded response. Its like she needs it on an emotional level and sees the conncetion not as a sexual one, even if the relationship was very shortlived and what I would call a meaningless fling. There's the confusion

A snapshot in time to keep forever but move on to other things. She's a self-proclaimed 'nomad' (my words) since she has a 'roots phobia' (her words) when it comes to settling down in one place/town for an extended time... she attributes this to moving around so much as a kid. From my point of view it seems this has bled into her relationship domain as well

Her reluctance to see a counselor makes me think that she really hasn't tamed the demons of her past and also that she fears being discovered an alcoholic. Perhaps a single occurrence, years ago, might be overlooked but repeated binge drinking to the point of blacking out is a problem. It's also a convenient excuse to try to explain away bad behavior. It wasn't my fault – I was drunk!

w/o a doubt. She has let down her guard a few times to reveal that she's scared to go back down that road and talk about that night. And rightfully so. That's why I started going to the counselor ahead of her: to understand, show support, and make us going a reality. She sidestepped that issue and now regrets it and appreciates my efforts... we will see what comes of it all

reliving a fling with a former lover in front of the person you claim to have a serious relationship is Just Plain Tacky. How is a person supposed to respond to something like that?

I know what you mean. I told her more than a few times I could do the same, but what good would it do? I'm more respectful of her feelings than that. She just didn't get it then, but now she does (took her long enough!). Its not about her need/desire to tell me about some guy she hooked up with on a bachelorette party or whatever, its about my - the BFs - wishes to not be informed of such behavior. I should come first.

She has made the comment before that when she was in HS a teacher told her and another girl that they are 'treasures' and need to view themselves as such. And to expect a lucky guy to do the same. Her response was 'pshhh! Treasure? I'm no treasue. Haha that's absurd." in a sarcastic manner... so her retelling of this story gave some some kind of a view into her thinking. Maybe she told me those Ex stories as a way to brag? Maybe she was trying to 'soil her image' in my eyes? Maybe... may be... maybe... I've tried to figure that one out countless times

[Emland]

These two statements struck me:

She used to poenly contact/reply to old lovers in front of me, so when i let her know that bothered me, she was dumb-struck. "Why?" was the usual dumbfounded response.

And

She has made the comment before that when she was in HS a teacher told her and another girl that they are 'treasures' and need to view themselves as such. And to expect a lucky guy to do the same. her response was 'pshhh! treasure?! im no treasue. haha thats absurd." in a sarcastic manner ....

When I read this the first impression I get is that your GF has no inkling of the word respect. She has none for herself and none for anyone else. She apparently has no self-esteem, either.

Its like she needs it on an emotional level and sees the conncetion not as a sexual one, even if the relationship was very shortlived and what i would call a meaningless fling. theres the confusion

To me the need for the emotional attachment is more upsetting than if she was just doing whatever guy came by. Are you saying that she gets more emotionally out of the previous relationships/flings than she does from the flesh and blood man she cohabitates with?

im more respectful of her feelings than that. she just didnt get it then, but now she does (took her long enough!).

Do you honestly think she gets it? Could she be saying what you want to hear to get you to back off? That kind of behavior makes me think that she is acting out - to shock you and push you away.

Its not about her need/desire to tell me about some guy she hooked up with on a bachelorette party or whatever, its about my - the BFs - wishes to not be informed of such behavior. i should come first.

Again that boils down to respect. She also appears to have no empathy which is another thing to be very careful about. Is she able to acknowledge other people's feelings or should they see everything her way?

Only thing I can offer to you is please, please, please don't think about marriage or more importantly children. You don't want to be in a position of having to explain to a 3 year old an 6 year old why Mommy went out for a gallon of milk and never returned.

[Homegirl 50]

As I have said before, she is who she is and is not likely going to change.
You need to ask yourself why you continue to be willing to put up with her.
Love is one thing and self preservation and respect is another. You need to get to the point where you say enough is enough. I don't mean to sound cruel, but stop whining and leave.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

I think the most obvious thing in this long story is that your GF is not ready for marriage. She doesn't really appear healthy enough for a long term relationship. Whether it was the rape or other influences growing up, she has a problem connecting to one person – you. If the rape was committed by someone she trusted then it is easy to see why she can't commit. She did it and looked what happened. That's why I believe she hangs on to the exes – they're backup when you bail on her.

Her reluctance to see a counselor makes me think that she really hasn't tamed the demons of her past and also that she fears being discovered an alcoholic. Perhaps a single occurrence, years ago, might be overlooked but repeated binge drinking to the point of blacking out is a problem. It's also a convenient excuse to try to explain away bad behavior. It wasn't my fault – I was drunk!

I'm of a different generation than you. My only sex partner is my husband of 22 years, so I really can't understand the sex chatter of previous relationships. I can understand having a frank discussion about past relationships so everyone knows where they stand, but reliving a fling with a former lover in front of the person you claim to have a serious relationship is Just Plain Tacky. How is a person supposed to respond to something like that?

Well... I think you are right *sigh*

I know many on here will be happy to hear its over.

Its sad that it took this long for all of this to come out... we drifted apart

She confessed to a lot of stuff and now has gone home to be with family and seek therapy. My world has been turned upside down.

The sad thing is once it was all over we talked. We talked for 7 hours on the phone going over why things bothered me, her boundary issues (or the fact she doesn't realize how to keep boundaries), her fear of abandonment and how that exacerbated my suspicious and insecurities... but maybe I developed them for a reason.

EVERYTHING I have brought up on this forum was open for discussion - her rape, her childhood, my confusion with her old flings and lovers... and much of it was resolved. It seems she was going to friends with our problems but she was too scared to come to me... she felt my same frustration. She cried to friends in secret. Yet I had no clue. I didn't think she cared.


I never wanted to tell her she's "damaged" I just wanted for us to be a better couple. And now that we are over, she is going to really try to change. It sucks because now I feel we have just begun to see each in a clear light...

And FWIW, I told her I support her decision to head home and that I will be there for her... call me an idiot, but I still see the good in her. I wish we could have reached each other b/f it came to this

[Toluca_86]

"And FWIW, i told her i support her decison to head home and that i will be there for her... call me an idiot, but i still see the good in her. I wish we could have reached each other b/f it came to this"

I don't think you're an idiot.

You know I was one saying from the beginning that there were other possibilities besides "she doesn't care" That's one thing that drives me nuts about our culture -a lot of people believe that in a relationship there are only a few acceptable ways to act, and anything else means a person must be a player/tool/doesn't care etc. Lifes complicated, really. You got to take situations and people on an individual basis...

But sounds to me like breaking up still was what you needed at the time...

[TheBun]

Over the last two weeks i have caught my GF in lies ...

I have asked her about a coworker that appeared on her myspace ... she acted funny and then said she didnt recognize the name or know who i was talking about

The we talked about a big weekend she had a month ago in a different city. She got so drunk with friends the night before that she didnt wake up/couldnt get up until 2 the next day. (She has told me about her past: she has had blackout sex with strangers a few times, so I think its understandalbe that i get uneasy when she does this out of town.)

So then she slipped up and said a guy was staying with her and her friend that weekend and that her friend who stayed with her that weekend has now broken up with her boyfriend. EVERY conversation we have had about that weekend she never once mentioned a guy or that her friend was shacking up with an ex. To me, this means shes hiding something.

Also, a few months before all of this, she got drunk at a bar with me and my friends and gave her nuber to a guy who was flirting with her. The next day she had no memory of it .. black out drunk yet again .. it was a kick to the balls to say the least.

And now that i have confronted her about her behavior, she tells me that she didnt want to worry me about that weekend out of town, and the guy on her myspace is a coworker she knows and works with ....

my question is why lie?

she has an excuse for everything. weve been dating for two years and live together. also, she seems to care about our relationship, but she makes it very clear she cares just as much about past relationships. to me, an ex is an ex. if its a longterm BF, i can understand that, but she hold on to guys (calls/emails) that she knew/had sex with for a month or two. she says that she cares that it botherers me, but says she wont do anything about it. *frustrating*

And now the lies. And Im thinking if i stumbled upon these lies, what else should i be concerned about? Im hating myself right now. I feel like such a fool. I know she has feelings for me, but i think we are two different people at htis point.

I wish i could find someone who wants, and deserves, my love ...

Well hmmm. It sounds first of all like she's a fun girl. Have you ever been drunk? I'm pretty sure that we're all guilty of drinking and having a good time. In the end, if your partner sees and talks with all temptations and still come home to YOU, then consider yourself lucky!! From a girls point of view, I can tell you this: When I go out, sometimes I know that I get a little too buzzed and let people get away with a little more flirting than they should. This doesn't mean anything physical, just simply accepting attention from people I know I shouldn't. At the end of they day, I feel guilty when I come home to my boyfriend. Why? What did I really do? Accept compliments? What do you boys do when you're out? Listen, being in a relationship hopefully makes us loyal, but not blind. If you act jealous about when you're girlfriend goes out, then you are going to make her feel like her normal behavior needs to be refined or limited. This is really quite impossible, so it is going to lead to awkward lies, even if the offense was nothing big. I used to feel guilty if I said hello and introduced myself to someone at a bar, even if I said that I had a boyfriend! Now, I realize that I'm allowed to have conversation and accept attention from other people, as long as I know who my love is. I have no temptation to do anythihg physical with other men, it just feels good to get attention sometimes. That's the truth about women - we are attention whores. If you limit us, we will lie - because one way or another, we're going to get it.

[InSearchOfAnswers]

Thanks to you both... black and white respneses such as "move on" or "get over it" irk me because things aren't that easy, that simple... so I appreciate both of you taking the time to respond and realize the situation is very complicated.

Its ironic. After our talk, its like we have a better understanding of each other and are now closer... cheating or no cheating

I actually have more hope now than I have had the last 6 months... even though I know it's a long shot at best

Regardless, we will both be better people in the end

[talaniman]

You are way different types of people, with different outlooks, and issues. One thing for sure, if a couple cannot communicate enough to solve their differences, and work together, to build a happy healthy relationship, it's a waste of time and energy. I think you have already held on to long.