[river1]

I just bought a house (older) and I've been noticing a funny smell -- like raw sewage. So, I went down to my crawl space today to investigate. I noticed that there is a pipe that dumps water into the crawl space every time a toilet is flushed or a sink is turned on in the house. The pipe is a vertical piece connected to a horizontal one. So, when a toilet is flushed, water pushes up through it and onto the ground of my crawl space. Is that normal? I've never owned a house before but I know that moisture in a crawl space can be a serious issue. It looks like it was designed to do this though. The pipe isn't broken or anything. I'm a bit baffled. Should I call a plumber?

[doug238]

Yes, call the plumber

[hkstroud]

No, it wasn't designed to do that. You definitely have a problem that has to be addressed.
However, don't panic. Tell us what type of pipe you have PVC (white), ABS (black plastic) or cast iron (rusty brown metal, rings if you tape it with a hammer). It appears that you have a pipe joint that has come apart. Unfortunately it is most likely cast iron. Take another look and tell us if the water is coming up between the two pieces of pipe where one goes inside the other.

[river1]

No, it wasn't designed to do that. You definitely have a problem that has to be addressed.
However, don't panic. Tell us what type of pipe you have PVC (white), ABS (black plastic) or cast iron (rusty brown metal, rings if you tape it with a hammer). It appears that you have a pipe joint that has come apart. Unfortunately it is most likely cast iron. Take another look and tell us if the water is coming up between the two pieces of pipe where one goes inside the other.

I'll try to describe what it looks like. Sorry, I can't post a picture. I have two black plastic (ABS I guess) pipes (long horizontal pieces) connected to a white plastic piece in the middle. The white piece goes up (vertical), curves and is open at the end.. not connected to anything and not capped. It looks like a candy cane sitting on top of my horizontal pipes.. if that makes sense. I guess water is supposed to only flow through the ABS pipes, not the white one, because now water is flowing through it, it just drains onto my crawl space floor.

I'm definitely going to call a plumber on this, but I'm just confused as to why the white pipe would even be there in the first place. It doesn't seem to serve any function (to someone who has zero experience with plumbing). Is it there for ventilation reasons, perhaps? I hope I'm making sense in my description. This stuff is new to me.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. Trying hard not to panic... the sight of water in my crawl space, along with other stuff this afternoon made me feel :eek: :eek: :eek:

[massplumber2008]

Hey River1


Call the plumber out for sure... somethings wrong. There should not be a candycane shaped pipe, capped or uncapped, on your sewer drain line. Seems to me your home inspector should have caught this... yes?

Also sounds like you have a drain clogged... sounds like the main drain line... sounds like this has happened before... why the inspector should have wondered why open pipe in crawl space... that is his job... then he could ask why.. then maybe previous owner would have fessed up and mentioned drain issues... maybe... maybe not.

Anyway, get plumber, cap pipe properly, have him snake the drain. And then river1... DISINFECT THAT CRAWL SPACE WITH 20%BLEACH SOLUTION.. OK?

If plumber pulls roots... get in touch with real estate agent and home inspector and see what each has to say... you may be entitled to some money from previous owner for repairs that could be needed in the future.

Keep us posted! Mark


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[river1]

Hey River1


Call the plumber out for sure....somethings wrong. There should not be a candycane shaped pipe, capped or uncapped, on your sewer drain line. Seems to me your home inspector should have caught this...yes?

Also sounds like you have a drain clogged....sounds like the main drain line....sounds like this has happened before...why the inspector should have wondered why open pipe in crawl space...that is his job...then he could ask why..then maybe previous owner would have fessed up and mentioned drain issues....maybe...maybe not.

Anyway, get plumber, cap pipe properly, have him snake the drain. And then river1...DISINFECT THAT CRAWL SPACE WITH 20%BLEACH SOLUTION..OK??

If plumber pulls roots...get in touch with real estate agent and home inspector and see what each has to say...you may be entitled to some money from previous owner for repairs that could be needed in the future.

Keep us posted! Mark


.

Thanks everyone for replying. I called a plumber out. He looked it over and said I had a blockage in the line leading to my septic tank (main line, I presume?). He gave me a variety of quick fix options, but said none of them would really work for the long term (except adding a line to pump waste and water out into my garden, which uh, no thanks.) He even said having the septic tank pumped would only fix my problem for three weeks or so because a septic tank is supposed to be full.. so probably a problem with the leech field. Yikes, :eek: none of this sounds good. Anyway, he said I should call out someone who knows septic tanks, leech fields, etc. and didn't charge me anything for the diagnosis. So that's where I'm at. I have a septic guy on the way. I'm anxious to hear the dollar amount on all of this, but the fact that the plumber offers financing can't be a good sign. I guess this is a big welcome to the joys of home ownership. And massplumber, you're right.. my inspector should have caught this. When I went down to the crawl space to check this out, I looked at that pipe and thought, that just can't be right... and I have absolutely zero experience with plumbing.

[massplumber2008]

*ouch*... well, something did not sound kosher! Thanks for the update River.. let us know result.

[river1]

*ouch*...well, something did not sound kosher!! Thanks for the update River..let us know end result.

Ok, here's where I'm at now. I had the septic tank pumped, which obviously needed it. There were used tampons, condoms, etc. down there. (None of this is mine.. not happy with the previous home owner!) The guy's tank filled up before he could get all of the water and gunk out of my septic. And yay, no more water draining into my crawl space.

However, he told me the same thing the first plumber did.. the fix is very temporary. Right after the septic tank was pumped, I could hear water flushing back into it at a rapid rate... I guess this is water that is supposed to be going through the drain fields (leach fields?) but those are shot. As he was poking around for my septic tank, he told me he could already tell my drain fields were bad because the water around the tank was very wet and spongy. Water filled up in the hole he dug very quickly. The first plumber said drain fields are built to last for about 15 years, the second guy said about 25 to 30 (the house is 30 years old.) So here's my new question. Do I absolutely have to replace the drain fields? Is there anything I can do which can buy me some time... like two years or more? I still don't know exactly what it would cost to replace them, but the figure he threw out there was $5,500 at a minimum, and that's without permits. It's probably closer to $10,000. Does that sound right? He also said I could kiss my lawn good bye. Oh man, I just have to laugh at this point. So does anyone know of something that could save me from spending a small fortune to turn my front lawn into a huge ant hill?

Again thank you all for responding! As bad as all this is, I'm glad I at least know about the problem so I can work toward a solution.

[massplumber2008]

River.. how long have you owned this property? Wasn't a Title V inspection performed prior to purchase of home? What state are you in? I will see what I can come up with on new homeownership in your area (any home warranty on this house.. or is it a foreclosure... hmmmm..? ).

You said $5500.00 without permits... you are pulling permits.. yes? I hope so... this is not the place to save bucks on permit costs.

Lawn issues... yes... messy. I have seen a couple companies that used sheets of plywood to protect lawn... but depends on how big job is).

Let me know what you think... Mark.

.

[hkstroud]

Sorry to hear about your problems. Sounds like the previous owner had the same problems and had a clean out put in to snake the line to the septic tank. Just wasn't smart enough to cap it off. First get it caped. Get a PVC coupling that is glued on one end and has internal threads on the other and a plug for it. Sounds like the previous owner wasn't very smart about what to put in a septic system and what not to. About all you can do now is limit the use of water and hope that it doesn't rain too much. You can hope that the existing lines will function well enough to get by until you are ready to put down new ones. If I am correct that the pipe was put in to snake the lines, the previous owner was probably able to get by with periodic blockages.
As far as you lawn, I assume that the guy meant that you lawn would be temporarily damaged by the digging of the new lines. It will come back, just remember grass grows greenest over the septic tank.

As far as cost, you estimates sound a little high but I don't know the cost of labor in your area. I just has a 100' line put in at a cost of $1700. While you have time, call a couple companies and ask. You would want to go the permit way to have someone check the job. Heard of one guy that put the lines in going up hill. Had his level turn the wrong way.

Whether the inspector should have caught this depends on whether there was any signs of water under the house when he looked. He can always say there wasn't, even if he didn't look.

[massplumber2008]

Hi Guys!

Harold, in my area, whenever a home with a septic is sold there is a required Title V inspection. I asked River what state he lives in.. still waiting on answer.

How you doing lately? Have missed you last couple days... ;)

Check this site out... especially about home sale... let me know... Mark.

Title V mass, Title V Massachusetts, Title V Inspection

I am not suggesting this is absolute.. it is a sales pitch at site... but presents that inspection should have happened. River1, let us know if regular sale or foreclosure. Thank you.

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[river1]

River..how long have you owned this property? Wasn't a Title V inspection performed prior to purchase of home?? What state are you in? I will see what I can come up with on new homeownership in your area (any home warranty on this house..or is it a foreclosure...hmmmm..??).

You said $5500.00 without permits...you are pulling permits..yes?? I hope so...this is not the place to save bucks on permit costs.

Lawn issues...yes...messy. I have seen a couple companies that used sheets of plywood to protect lawn....but depends on how big job is).

Let me know what you think...Mark.

.

Massplumber, I have owned this house since December 1, 2007, but I moved in late January. So, I've been running water through it for about five weeks now. This weeked, I noticed a bad smell.. very faint (thank god!) so I went down into the crawl space to investigate and fell down the rabbit hole, so to speak.

Back in November, I went into the crawl space with the inspector. The first thing he said was there were no signs of moisture. And there wasn't at that time. The space was dusty dry. Unfortunately, I now know that that was probably because the house had sat empty for quite awhile. I'm not sure how long, but it was for more than six months. With the market being where it is, it's been hard to sell I guess.

But no, the house was not a foreclosure. I talked with the previous owner at the signing.. he seems to be a nice guy (lol @ nice guy, I know). He said he raised his two kids in the house, enjoyed it, liked the neighbors, wished us well here, etc. Around Christmas time, someone left a gift for him and some pictures of him and his kids from a trip he took to Yellowstone on my porch. The guy still lives somewhat nearby and he rode his bike by once and we waved and smiles all around. I don't know why this is relevant, but I guess it just doesn't seem to me like this was out and out fraud or anything.

One more detail, I bought this house with a VA loan. So a VA inspector went through the house too. I wasn't present at that inspection, but the inspector did insist on measures being taken to keep moisture away from the outside of the house. He had the previous owner dump some dirt around the front of the house to ensure a downward slope and replace the gutters. He also said the crawl space needed another vent.. it already had two, but he wanted one on another wall. So I know this inspector was in the crawl space.

I'm not sure if I can get some money out of this, but I'm going to talk to JAG (Army lawyer) tomorrow and see.

As for the problem with the septic/ drain field though, yes I'll definitely see to it that this is done right. I'll pull permits and do whatever else needs to be done. It's bad enough I had waste rotting under my house, I don't plan on sharing with the neighbors. Of course, I'd love to be spared what from every indication is going to be an outrageous expense (know of any quick, yet safe and legal, fixes on drain field repairs?) but here we go. I'll tell you this, after this is finished, I'll be VERY sure to take good care of my septic.. regular servicing, nothing questionable flushed or put down the drains.

Again, thank you for taking the time.. I'll post the dollar amount on the new drain fields as soon as I get the estimate. Hope that's tomorrow. Just thinking about the cost of this is making me dizzy, but this doesn't seem like something I have a choice on.

[river1]

Sorry, in my very long answer I forgot to metnion what state this is. It's Georgia. If there was a septic tank inspection required, I didn't see one/ don't have it. I'll check into that tomorrow with JAG.

[Fr_Chuck]

In GA any new septic system, or any change to the laterial lines have to be inspected and get approval. There is no requirements at time of sale.

[Fr_Chuck]

I read more of the old posts,

First yes always have the inspection, all that is, the septic tank inspector for your county, comes out and marks where you need to put new the new drain field, and he will tell you exactly how many feet you have to use according to his soil tests.

And yes, all you are going to do is dig a trench 100 to 200 feet long ( or two or three lines to the size you need, like I said the inspector even marks on the ground where to put them.

So there are several types, one merely puts some gravel into the trench, the pipe in, and you fill it up with dirt. The last one I did, I just went out and rented the equipment, drug out the lines and hired some day labor for the grunt work.

But if you are getting a price of more than 2000 dollars per 100 feet, someone is trying to take advantage of you.
Are they pricing you an entire new tank and lines ? Even that would not be 10,000 dollars

[massplumber2008]

FR Chuck, that helped clarify tons! Thank you.

No Title V inspection required in your area at time of sale... I see. *Ouch*.. but fact is fact. Check with JAG anyway... see what they say.

I am sure previous owner did nothing intentional... just presenting ideas with so little info. (some people stink.. but I believe, not most:) ). Talk to people, keep us posted... Thanks... Mark


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[hkstroud]

River1
Sometimes stuff just happens. Sometimes it seems like a house own you rather than you owning it.

Mark, I've been out putting up crown molding. Been crawling over peoples furniture and "stuff". Have you ever went to clear someone's kitchen drain, arrived to find that they had removed everything under the sink? Never happened to me.:o

River1, when Mark speaks of stinking people he's talking about me. :D :D

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, many "city" people think that a drain is a drain and dump all sorts of things in them, I can remember all sorts of things we got out of ours on the last home we bought and had the tank pumped.

One thing to look for, that was not mentioned, but the tank is to have a baffle that is suppose to help keep the solids in tank, and the liquids going into the field area. After 20 plus years the baffle in the tank may have fallen in ( if concrete) On one tank we did, I found that by rebuilding the baffle, the drain fields could hold ( pretty good, )

[doug238]

Infiltrator Plastic Leachfield Chamber Systems... this is the best system
Infiltrator chamber leach field system installation instructions.... this is your best way to have it done


These next 3 give you an idea of what you are looking for
Septic Tank and Drainfield Operation and Maintenance, from the MSU Extension Service
Septic Systems A to Z Maintenance
http://www.sera17.ext.vt.edu/Documen...rain_field.pdf

I want to address some issues. The open pipe was installed to keep backups out of the interior of the house. It is not legal but some plumbers do it, I don't. When the septic backed up the open pipe protected the inside of the home.
The cost of a guy reinstalling a leach field in the atl metro area off the record [no permit] is around 3 grand. To do it according to specs, the authorities will determine exactly where you going to put it, how long and how deep. They will require extra distance of drain line. You will find the 5.5 grand reasonable, even low. If you permit it, every installer will be required to do it according to the specs given.
I highly suggest the infiltrator. Do you have red clay or dirt?

[river1]

Infiltrator Plastic Leachfield Chamber Systems ... this is the best system
Infiltrator chamber leach field system installation instructions. ... this is your best way to have it done


these next 3 give you an idea of what you are looking for
Septic Tank and Drainfield Operation and Maintenance, from the MSU Extension Service
Septic Systems A to Z Maintenance
http://www.sera17.ext.vt.edu/Documen...rain_field.pdf

i want to address some issues. the open pipe was installed to keep backups out of the interior of the house. it is not legal but some plumbers do it, i don't. when the septic backed up the open pipe protected the inside of the home.
the cost of a guy reinstalling a leach field in the atl metro area off the record [no permit] is around 3 grand. to do it according to specs, the authorities will determine exactly where ya gonna put it, how long and how deep. they will require extra distance of drain line. you will find the 5.5 grand reasonable, even low. if you permit it, every installer will be required to do it according to the specs given.
i highly suggest the infiltrator. do ya have red clay or dirt?

Thanks for this informative and detailed answer. I am p*ssed that the home inspector didn't see it and think.. uh oh... and advise me about it. You say this isn't legal to install? I wonder if I have case against inspector/and or previous home owner?

I have red clay, and I suspect that the installation of a new drain field on my lot would be very tricky. It's wooded and hilly. My current problem is that I can't get anyone out to give me an estimate. A guy was supposed to come out yesterday.. I called him at noon and we agreed to meet at 3 p.m. I got time off work, came out... no show, no call, no explantion. I called and left a message on his voice mail, no call back. It's been over 24 hours.

Does anybody know anyone who does good drain field work in the Atlanta area (specifically western Cobb county)?

Also, one last question, I heard about the terralift method (terraliftinternational.com). Does anyone have any experience with this? Does it work? If yes, for how long?